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Suffering? The wilderness....

A

awaken

Member
Why isn't God delivering me from my suffering? Why isn't God answering my prayers?" We hear this a lot from Christians..

Suffering is something that can be difficult for us to understand. We believe that God is good, so why does He allow people to suffer so much? If He loves us, then why doesn't He deliver us from our suffering? Why does He sometimes seem to ignore us no matter how hard we pray? I suspect that we'll never fully know the answers to these questions this side of heaven, but the Bible does tell us that there is often a purpose for suffering. I could be that we are in the wilderness...

Sometimes the choices that we make can bring suffering on us. For example, if I choose to put my hand on a hot stove, I'm going to suffer pain. If people choose to disobey what God says about premarital sex, for example, then they might suffer from sexually-transmitted diseases, unwanted pregnancies, and so on. If our sins have brought the suffering onto us then we can repent and ask for forgiveness, we can turn the situation over to God, and we can trust that He will work things out for our good (even if "our good" means that He allows us to continue suffering for a time).

On the other hand, sometimes we suffer because we are being afflicted by demonic spirits. For example, physical diseases can be caused by the devil and his demons:

"The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head." (Job 2:6-7)
 
Even though Job was "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1), and even though Job "feared God and shunned evil" (Job 1:1), the Lord allowed the devil to afflict Job (but only up to a certain point!). Even though Job was not aware of it, there was a purpose for Job's suffering. This does not mean that our suffering has the same purpose that Job's suffering had, but we can trust that God is in control at all times, no matter what He allows us to go through.
 
Sometimes God allows suffering into our lives, because our struggles with strengthen us.

James 1:2-4
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything
 
1Pe 4:1 ¶ Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you].
1Pe 5:11 To him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


God uses sufferings to cause us to cease from sin and walk in the will of God, to make us perfect and stablished and strengthened. BUT what we also need to remember is to be in faith in our sufferings because while we are promised we will suffer- and for our good- we are also promised that God delivers us out of our afflictions. Notice above. After we have suffer A WHILE.

Psa 34:17 [The righteous] cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.


Psa 34:18 The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.


Psa 34:19 Many [are] the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.
 
I believe...most christians have suffered in one way or another. All the scriptures given..even though it showed we would suffer..there was comfort in them as well. To know that God is in control!

There is a lot to learn in our suffering..Just as Job learned. I never really understood God allowing satan to cause Job's suffering until I studied it out...

Job's example also shows us that terrible events in our lives can be caused by the devil and his demons:
"The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. One day when Job's sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, a messenger came to Job and said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, and the Sabeans attacked and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!" While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The fire of God fell from the sky and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!" While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!" While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, "Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!" At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship" (Job 1:12-20)

Once again we can see that the Lord allowed the devil to afflict Job (but only up to a certain point!). Job lost his family and his wealth to "natural disasters" and to the consequences of other people's choices (the various raiding parties). But notice Job's response to all of this suffering: He fell to the ground in worship! He didn't understand the reason why he was suffering so much, but he responded correctly.
 
On Sunday, somebody asked me about this and sickness. God gave me a picture to share:

Paul says we run a race. I saw this race being a hurdle race. Many hurdles will be seen as we look down the road in front of us. We have to get over them . Some Christians have been taught to lie down in from of the hurdle , " accepting God's will" but God did not allow the hurdle to trip you, neither to make you lie down. God wants you to clear the hurdle , but He wants you to learn how to clear it with His help.

Learning all about the promises of God and believing them, gives us the ability to jump over with God's help. At first, the hurdle might be low, but as we progress, God can allow higher hurdles to test our faith, so that we may grow in faith.

His Word has a promise that will conquer ALL hurdles. Some will be sought out with prayer and others you already know.

Psa 18:29 For by thee I run upon a troop; And by my God do I leap over a wall.
 
Cornelius said:
On Sunday, somebody asked me about this and sickness. God gave me a picture to share:

Paul says we run a race. I saw this race being a hurdle race. Many hurdles will be seen as we look down the road in front of us. We have to get over them . Some Christians have been taught to lie down in from of the hurdle , " accepting God's will" but God did not allow the hurdle to trip you, neither to make you lie down. God wants you to clear the hurdle , but He wants you to learn how to clear it with His help.

Learning all about the promises of God and believing them, gives us the ability to jump over with God's help. At first, the hurdle might be low, but as we progress, God can allow higher hurdles to test our faith, so that we may grow in faith.

His Word has a promise that will conquer ALL hurdles. Some will be sought out with prayer and others you already know.

Psa 18:29 For by thee I run upon a troop; And by my God do I leap over a wall.
Click to expand...

I love it when He shows us pictures..this is a good one. Thanks for sharing!
 
"After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer. After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD made him prosperous again and gave him twice as much as he had before. ... The LORD blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the first." (Job 42:7-12)

So even though Job was not perfect, the Lord commended him for the things that he said, and the Lord blessed him with twice as much as he had before! The way we deal with suffering is very important. Just as Cornelius showed in picture...If Job would have given up..the outcome might have come out different..
 
When we experience suffering, or when God seems to be ignoring us no matter how much we pray, there is often a purpose for this. God puts us in the "wilderness" or the "dry times" for a reason. The devil doesn't place us in the "wilderness," and we're not in the "wilderness" because God is angry with us. Instead, this is a season which God uses to prepare us for greater things. For example, when God delivered the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt, He led them straight into the wilderness as a time of testing and preparation (which they failed miserably, and ended up wandering for 40 years in the desert - see Numbers 14:26-35). Before John the Baptist could begin his ministry of preparing the way for the Lord, he had to go through a wilderness experience ( Luke 1:80). Before Jesus could begin operating in His powerful ministry, the Spirit led Him into the wilderness ( Luke 3:21-4:2). God takes us through the wilderness, the desert, the valley, the dry times, the night season, when He is preparing us for greater things.
 
While reading throught this thread, I noticed something that seems to allude , while looking at the suffering.

I understand the suffering part of what this thread is projecting. We all will suffer . Some things God will allow, and other things we bring upon ourselves.

However , I was wondering if anyone noticed, while reading about Job, or John the baptist or Jesus, that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much ?

Bless
 
Mysteryman said:
However , I was wondering if anyone noticed, while reading about Job, or John the baptist or Jesus, that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much ?

Bless
Click to expand...

good point...
 
What is there between two mountain-tops? A valley, right? When God is ready to move us to the next mountain-top, to a higher level in Him, He walks us through the valley to get to that next mountain-top. When we begin to find ourself feeling frustrated and uncomfortable, as if we want to know God better and find His will for our life and be "used" by Him in mighty ways, but He seems silent and far away, we're probably in the valley, in the wilderness. When we are suffering in some way and we have prayed and prayed, but God doesn't seem to hear us, we are probably in the wilderness. We are in that time of preparation where He is stretching our faith and stretching our patience. It is frustrating, and sometimes we just can't understand why He won't deliver us from the suffering, or why He is "wasting" all of the time and energy that we are now willing to devote to Him. Our job in the wilderness is to stay patient, to stay in peace, to maintain a good attitude (don't grumble and complain!), to draw closer to Him, and to just trust Him. He has a special plan for our life, and He knows the perfect timing for moving us into the next level. First, though, we need to ask Him if there is any unconfessed sin in our life, and repent of anything that He shows us.
 
As we're waiting for God to change our circumstances, it's a good time to do some changing ourself. It's a good time to work on our spiritual maturity, because we're going to need it when God moves us into that higher level of service for His glory. Did the Israelites have to wander in the dessert for 40 years?? Or was it their lack of spiritual maturity that kept them in the wilderness for so long? Let's not let our lack of spiritual maturity keep us in the wilderness longer than necessary! There is nothing we can do to speed up the process, our job is simply to "take" it and let God work on us. However, we might slow down the process by not "taking" it...We need to cooperate with God as He burns off more of our "flesh nature" in the wilderness.
 
Another way to look at it is the example of the potter and the clay:
"Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, 'What are you making?' Does your work say, 'He has no hands'?" (Isaiah 45:9)

"Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand." (Isaiah 64:8)

"This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD: "Go down to the potter's house, and there I will give you my message." So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel. But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him. Then the word of the LORD came to me: "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel."" (Jeremiah 18:1-6)

"But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?" (Romans 9:20-21)

God refers to Himself as a potter, and we are the clay. A potter takes a lump of clay, and he first prepares it by using pressure to squeeze the clay in order to soften it. The clay might not like being treated that way, and it might want to cry out to be delivered from its suffering. Yet the potter has a purpose for applying this squeezing pressure to the clay, and in fact this step is essential in order for the clay to fulfill its proper destiny. Then the potter puts the clay on the wheel and spins it round and round and round, forming it into a vessel according to the potter's plans. The clay might be screaming that its life is spinning out of control, and that it doesn't understand the changes that are taking place. But notice that this whole time, the clay is always in the loving hands of the Master Potter!
 
These things, as uncomfortable as they are for the clay, are absolutely necessary in order for the clay to fulfill the role that the potter has in mind for it. When the clay has been shaped into a vessel according to the potter's plans, it is then set on a shelf to dry. The clay might be crying out, "Where are you, Master Potter? Why have you deserted me like this? Why don't you answer me? Why won't you relieve my suffering? Use me, Master Potter! I want to be used for Your glory! Why am I just sitting on a shelf? What am I supposed to do?" Does that sound familiar? Do we ever feel like we are sitting on a shelf, confused, and wondering why God won't "use" us for His glory? The Master Potter keeps his eye on that clay vessel on the shelf, watching until it is dry. He hasn't forgotten it! But guess what? When the clay vessel is dry, where does it go? Into the furnace! Now that clay vessel is really screaming! Things just seem to go from bad to worse, and the clay doesn't understand why it is in the fire. No matter how much it prays for deliverance, no matter how much it rebukes the devil, no matter how much it asks why the Master Potter is angry with it, no matter how much it repents of every sin it can think of, it is still in the fire. But the Master Potter isn't mad at the clay vessel, and the Master Potter hasn't forgotten the clay vessel. The fire is essential in order for the clay vessel to be strengthened so that it can fulfill the tasks which the Master Potter has planned for it. Eventually, the clay vessel is removed from the fire for the last time. What a relief! But then it goes back on the shelf in order to cool off. After it has cooled off, the potter begins to paint it (or he applies glaze to it), and then it goes into the fire again. The clay vessel might not like having this sticky, confining, smelly stuff being applied to it, but the finished product is a beautiful vessel that is fit and ready for the Master Potter to put to use for His glory. If the original lump of clay had known what a strong and beautiful vessel it would become after its "suffering," it might have been able to rejoice in its suffering, right?
 
A lesson in pottery helps us to see the parallels between our suffering and the "suffering" that the clay experiences at the hand of the potter. Remember, God describes Himself in the Bible as a potter, and He says that we are the clay. In order for us to become useful vessels in the Lord's hand, He has to take us through a refining process to burn off more of our "flesh nature" so that we quit being so self-centered and we become more Christ-centered. People often refer to this uncomfortable process as the "wilderness," the "dry times," the "valley," the "dark night of the spirit," the "night season," or simply, "suffering." But it is an essential process, and it is important that we respond to this process in the right way:

"Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus." (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18)

"Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." (James 1:2-4)

"In this [hope] you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith --of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire-- may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed." (1 Peter 1:6-7)

"Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God." (Philippians 4:4-6)

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 tells us to give thanks "in" our circumstances, not "because of" our circumstances.
 
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