Bible Study SUNDAY

[Bob10]

Acts
13:42
So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.


13:44
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.


what a missed opportunity for Paul. He could have told these Gentiles that he would meet with them the very next day (sunday). But he waited a whole week, till the next Sabbath day.





------------------------------------


JOHN 20:19
Were they assembled to worship?

Were they joyously celebrating the resurrection? No.

Until Jesus actually appeared to them, they thought He was still dead, despite having been told by Mary Magdalene that she had seen the risen Lord!

Until the disciples actually saw Jesus, they did not believe He was risen (Mark 16:14).


The first time they saw the risen Lord, "they were terrified and frightened, and supposes that they had seen a ghost." (Luke 24:37).

 

[cyberjosh]

Almost everyone knows that the Sabbath (during Jesus' time atleast) was on Saturday. But the observance of the Sabbath is not a rigid specific-day observance. The importance is that when you celebrate the Sabbath that you respect it and observe it unto the Lord.

"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God." (Romans 14:5-6)

"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- " (Colossians 2:16)

 

[John the Baptist]

Almost everyone knows that the Sabbath (during Jesus' time atleast) was on Saturday. But the observance of the Sabbath is not a rigid specific-day observance. The importance is that when you celebrate the Sabbath that you respect it and observe it unto the Lord.

"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God." (Romans 14:5-6)

"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- " (Colossians 2:16)

***
John here:
Are you sincerely believing that this is talking about the Ten Commandment Eternal Covenant that God 'ALONE' Wrote???
Or perhaps you are just wanting to believe, and wnating others to think that this is what the Word of God is talking about?

 

[cyberjosh]

John here:
Are you sincerely believing that this is talking about the Ten Commandment Eternal Covenant that God 'ALONE' Wrote???
Or perhaps you are just wanting to believe, and wnating others to think that this is what the Word of God is talking about?

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you another one of those "Paul naysayers"? At any rate the command "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" is not abrogated with the coming of Jesus. And actually the reason that there are some commandments greater than others (the greatest commandment as Jesus spoke of - loving God, and the second like it - love your neighbor as yourself) is because if those two Jesus spoke about are obeyed the others will fall into place.

 

[John the Baptist]

John here:
Are you sincerely believing that this is talking about the Ten Commandment Eternal Covenant that God 'ALONE' Wrote???
Or perhaps you are just wanting to believe, and wnating others to think that this is what the Word of God is talking about?

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you another one of those "Paul naysayers"? At any rate the command "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" is not abrogated with the coming of Jesus. And actually the reason that there are some commandments greater than others (the greatest commandment as Jesus spoke of - loving God, and the second like it - love your neighbor as yourself) is because if those two Jesus spoke about are obeyed the others will fall into place.

****
John here: I did not mention the Sabbath day did I??? The Eternal Covenant has ten commandments only, and they are written with the finger of God. You refer to Matthew 22:35-40 right? I agree with that. And I suspect that we also see the K.J. version telling us that Christ would 'Magnify' all ten, and make them all 'Honorable'? Isaiah 42:21
****

You say: And actually the reason that there are some commandments greater than others (the greatest commandment as Jesus spoke of - loving God, and the second like it - love your neighbor as yourself) is because if those two Jesus spoke about are obeyed the others will fall into place.

****
John here again: I can agree with the above if you divide them into two tables, with the first four with our duty to God as number one,and the last six with our duty to man, number two. I also believe Romans 13 has to do ONLY with the second table pertaining to man, not God! And yet still, if any one of the ten are broken, we are guilty of breaking them all. James 2:8-12.

And the Paul thing??? That does not apply at all to my posts or my personal beliefs.
****

 

[cyberjosh]

John here: I did not mention the Sabbath day did I??? The Eternal Covenant has ten commandments only, and they are written with the finger of God. You refer to Matthew 22:35-40 right? I agree with that. And I suspect that we also see the K.J. version telling us that Christ would 'Magnify' all ten, and make them all 'Honorable'? Isaiah 42:21

No, you're right. You didn't say sabbath. Actually I really didn't know what you were refering to. I was taking a shot in the dark, trying to understand what you meant and where you were coming from.

You say: And actually the reason that there are some commandments greater than others (the greatest commandment as Jesus spoke of - loving God, and the second like it - love your neighbor as yourself) is because if those two Jesus spoke about are obeyed the others will fall into place.

****
John here again: I can agree with the above if you divide them into two tables, with the first four with our duty to God as number one,and the last six with our duty to man, number two. I also believe Romans 13 has to do ONLY with the second table pertaining to man, not God! And yet still, if any one of the ten are broken, we are guilty of breaking them all. James 2:8-12.

And the Paul thing??? That does not apply at all to my posts or my personal beliefs.
****

About the "Paul thing": sorry. Like I said I wasn't sure what you were saying or where you were coming from. You didn't give me much to work with, but now that you seem to have elaborated a bit I think I understand what you meant by saying that now.

But back to the main point, I agree with the majority of your assessment but I still do not think it matters which day you observe the Sabbath on. I feel perfectly at peace with doing so on Sunday, and God has never prompted me otherwise. And yes I do think Scripture backs up when you wish to observe the Sabbath. And like I pointed out, Colossians 2:16 says not to judge someone's observance of it.

 

[John the Baptist]

John here: I did not mention the Sabbath day did I??? The Eternal Covenant has ten commandments only, and they are written with the finger of God. You refer to Matthew 22:35-40 right? I agree with that. And I suspect that we also see the K.J. version telling us that Christ would 'Magnify' all ten, and make them all 'Honorable'? Isaiah 42:21

No, you're right. You didn't say sabbath. Actually I really didn't know what you were refering to. I was taking a shot in the dark, trying to understand what you meant and where you were coming from.


[quote:516b6]You say: And actually the reason that there are some commandments greater than others (the greatest commandment as Jesus spoke of - loving God, and the second like it - love your neighbor as yourself) is because if those two Jesus spoke about are obeyed the others will fall into place.

****
John here again: I can agree with the above if you divide them into two tables, with the first four with our duty to God as number one,and the last six with our duty to man, number two. I also believe Romans 13 has to do ONLY with the second table pertaining to man, not God! And yet still, if any one of the ten are broken, we are guilty of breaking them all. James 2:8-12.

And the Paul thing??? That does not apply at all to my posts or my personal beliefs.
****

About the "Paul thing": sorry. Like I said I wasn't sure what you were saying or where you were coming from. You didn't give me much to work with, but now that you seem to have elaborated a bit I think I understand what you meant by saying that now.

But back to the main point, I agree with the majority of your assessment but I still do not think it matters which day you observe the Sabbath on. I feel perfectly at peace with doing so on Sunday, and God has never prompted me otherwise. And yes I do think Scripture backs up when you wish to observe the Sabbath. And like I pointed out, Colossians 2:16 says not to judge someone's observance of it.[/quote:516b6]

*******
Well, (John here)
I am not judging you. :fadein: How can anyone know the Love of your heart or mind for Christ? Yet, still please hang unto this remark with the distinction that all postings are what I do respond to, if I do? Yet, the person is not the spiritual target. Is that clear? In other words, I do not know or do I want to know what is in Christ's creations mind. But false teachings I hate! Got that? :fadein:

I do not believe as you do. Yet, that is my commitment, not yours, huh?
And, let me just say it this way, with absolutely no intention of reading your mind or motives. If you came to me wanting me to baptise you into Christ's True Virgin Fold, I would not do so with the posting that you have put forward. For our baptismal commitment differ. Matthew 28:20, 1 John 2:4, Isaiah 8:20 & Christ's Words of "IF ye love Me, keep my commandments'.

Now, does that mean that I think that you are not a saved today Christian?? (Please pay close attention to my statement) No, what I am saying is that the fold that you belong to is not the True Virgin Fold of Christ. See Revelation 17:5. You as well as many others can be real Christians as seen in John 10:16 & Revelation 18:4. But ask ourself, when Christ is openly seen calling His True ignorant ones out of these folds, surely he cannot be in them, huh?

OK, perhaps one is not even a Christian? but if they are, could you be right, and I be wrong? surely! That is what it is all about, we can only be Christians and accountable for the Knowledge that God gives us. Romans 8:14. BUT.. we are accountable to live up to all of that knowledge that He does give us! Hosea 4:6 & all of the above verses. (+ many others)

 

[SputnikBoy]

. . .I still do not think it matters which day you observe the Sabbath on.

This appears to be the problem here. Most of mainstream Christianity 'doesn't think that it matters on which day the Sabbath is observed.' But it just MIGHT matter to God. I personally don't have a problem with Sunday worship or any day worship but I DO have a problem with the fact that Sunday has BECOME the Sabbath. And it's THIS that has become the issue.

I feel perfectly at peace with doing so on Sunday, and God has never prompted me otherwise.

But you ARE prompted which day is the Sabbath whenever this issue is raised ...AND it seems to be raised more and more these days for some reason. Even if God doesn't personally whisper into your ear, you would be prompted about the commands of God (including the Sabbath) whenever you read the scriptures.

As for your 'feeling at peace' with Sunday ...you probably don't have too many options since Sunday is the day your church opens its doors.

And yes I do think Scripture backs up when you wish to observe the Sabbath. And like I pointed out, Colossians 2:16 says not to judge someone's observance of it.

'Remember the Sabbath' appears to be a command ...not a 'when you wish to observe the Sabbath do-it-yourself ' type deal. The scripture you mention is not advocating abrogation of the 7th-day Sabbath at all. Do we honestly believe that a command of God such as the 4th of the 10 (an oh-so-important command) would be dismissed so casually with a few words from a text?

 

[cyberjosh]

As for your 'feeling at peace' with Sunday ...you probably don't have too many options since Sunday is the day your church opens its doors.

The church is not a building, it is the body of Christ and when they are gathered together for edification and reading of God's word then you are having "church" (ekklesia - literally gathering). Last Sunday I did not go to "Church" (as in a Church Building) but rather had my devotions alone at home and then had real church (ekklesia) with my Dad.

'Remember the Sabbath' appears to be a command ...not a 'when you wish to observe the Sabbath do-it-yourself ' type deal. The scripture you mention is not advocating abrogation of the 7th-day Sabbath at all. Do we honestly believe that a command of God such as the 4th of the 10 (an oh-so-important command) would be dismissed so casually with a few words from a text?

Look if this was blatant sin against God the Holy Spirit would put a check in my spirit. I read the Word and pray constantly. I am not away from God's will for me to the best of my knowledge. I understand what you are saying, but really for all we know God could have stoped making creation on a wednesday or thursday or....All we know for sure is that during Jesus' day it was observed on Saturday (I may be wrong on this, but that's not the main point). Also the Jewish day back then worked different from the way it does today. The next day started at sun-down. So if we are going to be rigid then that should be taken into account. If we are condemned over this, then there seems to be no freedom in Christ on this issue if every time we worship God on Sunday we are being damned for it at the same time.

The Church for the last 1600 years must have been a real stench in God's nostrils then, and out of all the mightly empowered, Godly men that lived in that period of time I guess God has never prompted any of their hearts about it either.

---------------------------------
Overall I still want to remain humble about this issue though, and if you wish to observe it on Saturday so be it. I've gone to Church on a Saturday before too. Do I get brownie points with God? :-D j/k
But seriously, whatever the Holy Spirit lays on your conscience as you pray and read his word on this issue, do it. And as all Christians should know the Holy Spirit can direct believers in different ways in their personal lives. It may be wrong for one person to drink, and not for another, etc. etc. (Romans 14). At anyrate God bless you and lay your mind to rest on this issue.

 

[John the Baptist]

As for your 'feeling at peace' with Sunday ...you probably don't have too many options since Sunday is the day your church opens its doors.

The church is not a building, it is the body of Christ and when they are gathered together for edification and reading of God's word then you are having "church" (ekklesia - literally gathering). Last Sunday I did not go to "Church" (as in a Church Building) but rather had my devotions alone at home and then had real church (ekklesia) with my Dad.

[quote:1e180]'Remember the Sabbath' appears to be a command ...not a 'when you wish to observe the Sabbath do-it-yourself ' type deal. The scripture you mention is not advocating abrogation of the 7th-day Sabbath at all. Do we honestly believe that a command of God such as the 4th of the 10 (an oh-so-important command) would be dismissed so casually with a few words from a text?

Look if this was blatant sin against God the Holy Spirit would put a check in my spirit. I read the Word and pray constantly. I am not away from God's will for me to the best of my knowledge. I understand what you are saying, but really for all we know God could have stoped making creation on a wednesday or thursday or....All we know for sure is that during Jesus' day it was observed on Saturday (I may be wrong on this, but that's not the main point). Also the Jewish day back then worked different from the way it does today. The next day started at sun-down. So if we are going to be rigid then that should be taken into account. If we are condemned over this, then there seems to be no freedom in Christ on this issue if every time we worship God on Sunday we are being damned for it at the same time.

The Church for the last 1600 years must have been a real stench in God's nostrils then, and out of all the mightly empowered, Godly men that lived in that period of time I guess God has never prompted any of their hearts about it either.

---------------------------------
Overall I still want to remain humble about this issue though, and if you wish to observe it on Saturday so be it. I've gone to Church on a Saturday before too. Do I get brownie points with God? :-D j/k
But seriously, whatever the Holy Spirit lays on your conscience as you pray and read his word on this issue, do it. And as all Christians should know the Holy Spirit can direct believers in different ways in their personal lives. It may be wrong for one person to drink, and not for another, etc. etc. (Romans 14). At anyrate God bless you and lay your mind to rest on this issue.[/quote:1e180]

***
Hi, John again!
The post was about Sunday, right? It was You that brought up this Blessed of God, Set Aside 7th Sanctified Day of His, for Holy Required use. I had never mentioned it, as you say.

And you say about the Holy Spirit laying it upon your conscience?? It seems to me, that this is on your mind & conscience already? What more does one want????

OK: It is your decision to make and with no judgement from me on that. But when you do finalize you decision, first read the K.J. on Genesis 4:7 and see the difference between doing Gods required will & our own. Then notice whose 'desire' became Cains. Also the book of Exodus 16:4-6 & Exodus 16:26-29 show that many seemed to think that God only wanted knowledge of His Truth without much actual obedience to it. But notice what Acts 5:32 STATES AS FACT.

And about the above. Your bringing in the 7th Day Sabbath for the sun thread, makes me think of this verse in Exodus 16:4 where God never mentioned the Sabbath as such, in 'PROVING THEM, whether they will WALK IN MY LAW OR NO.' Then He tests them on only one portion of His Law, the Sabbath. :wink:

And, this will be the worlds final testing as well before Christ's many professed ones enter their land of Canaan, to see if they are safe to save? See Exodus 16:35 along with Nahum 1:9. How do I know that? Because the Godhead says so! Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15

PS: I do hope that everyone knows that they can click on the many verses of the above posted scripture and that they will appear.

 

[SputnikBoy]

As for your 'feeling at peace' with Sunday ...you probably don't have too many options since Sunday is the day your church opens its doors.

The church is not a building, it is the body of Christ and when they are gathered together for edification and reading of God's word then you are having "church" (ekklesia - literally gathering). Last Sunday I did not go to "Church" (as in a Church Building) but rather had my devotions alone at home and then had real church (ekklesia) with my Dad.

But, it is still ingrained in the minds of most Christians that Sunday is the Sabbath day or at least 'a holy day' ...is it not? Thanks for the PM, by the way.

'Remember the Sabbath' appears to be a command ...not a 'when you wish to observe the Sabbath do-it-yourself ' type deal. The scripture you mention is not advocating abrogation of the 7th-day Sabbath at all. Do we honestly believe that a command of God such as the 4th of the 10 (an oh-so-important command) would be dismissed so casually with a few words from a text?

Look if this was blatant sin against God the Holy Spirit would put a check in my spirit. I read the Word and pray constantly. I am not away from God's will for me to the best of my knowledge. I understand what you are saying, but really for all we know God could have stoped making creation on a wednesday or thursday or....All we know for sure is that during Jesus' day it was observed on Saturday (I may be wrong on this, but that's not the main point). Also the Jewish day back then worked different from the way it does today. The next day started at sun-down. So if we are going to be rigid then that should be taken into account. If we are condemned over this, then there seems to be no freedom in Christ on this issue if every time we worship God on Sunday we are being damned for it at the same time.

As far as I know, sabbatarian groups (certainly SDAs) begin Sabbath observance Friday sundown until Saturday sundown. By the way, I'm just participating in a forum discussion and am not intending to convert others to my way of thinking. I often miss the mark myself (especially lately) so I'm hardly in a position to preach to others. BUT, I think we can rest assured that the 7th-day is and always has been the day that we now call Saturday. Jesus kept the Sabbath and the Jews have kept it before and since so we KNOW which day is the 7th.

The Church for the last 1600 years must have been a real stench in God's nostrils then, and out of all the mightly empowered, Godly men that lived in that period of time I guess God has never prompted any of their hearts about it either.

Yes, I know. I don't REALLY have an accurate answer on that one. But, tradition has played a huge part in Christianity and, unless issues such as this are brought to one's attention, most would not think about it. You yourself have admitted that you read and study the scriptures. And yet, you have somehow arrived at Sunday as being some kind of a 'holy day'. The actual scriptures say no such thing. In the minds of many, however, they believe that the Bible DOES state that Sunday is the Sabbath. Many even believe that Sunday is the 7th-day!

The majority of Christians only read their Bibles superficially. Furthermore, their understanding of the scriptures is tempered by the teachings and the traditions of mainstream Christianity ...much of which is the influence of the RCC. Mainstream Christianity says "Sunday" so, by golly, Sunday it is! Most don't give the issue another thought and perhaps go to church to mainly socialize. SUNday worship came from a mix of Christianity and paganism.

---------------------------------

Overall I still want to remain humble about this issue though, and if you wish to observe it on Saturday so be it. I've gone to Church on a Saturday before too. Do I get brownie points with God? :-D j/k

Oh, I'm sure you do! :wink:

But seriously, whatever the Holy Spirit lays on your conscience as you pray and read his word on this issue, do it. And as all Christians should know the Holy Spirit can direct believers in different ways in their personal lives. It may be wrong for one person to drink, and not for another, etc. etc. (Romans 14). At anyrate God bless you and lay your mind to rest on this issue.

It isn't really a case of laying my mind to rest on this issue. It really IS an issue to be discussed, especially since it comes up with great frequency on Christian forums. The Sabbath/Sunday topic just MIGHT be important in the long-term scheme of things. I really don't know. If you do a history study as to how and why transference of the 7th-day Sabbath to Sunday came about I think you might take the issue more seriously. I did.

 

[Atonement]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

There is only one verse; ONE that even has the word Sabbath mentioned after the book of ACTS and it's the above Scripture I quoted and look what it says, read it closely.. Don't judge me if I want to celebrate the Sabbath on Tuesday, or Thursday or even Sunday; We are not under the Mosiac Law, but under Grace.. Show me in the New Testament that we are to observe the Sabbath. Start from ACTS going to Revelation?????????? There is none, this is such a foolish debate..

 

[SputnikBoy]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

There is only one verse; ONE that even has the word Sabbath mentioned after the book of ACTS and it's the above Scripture I quoted and look what it says, read it closely.. Don't judge me if I want to celebrate the Sabbath on Tuesday, or Thursday or even Sunday; We are not under the Mosiac Law, but under Grace.. Show me in the New Testament that we are to observe the Sabbath. Start from ACTS going to Revelation?????????? There is none, this is such a foolish debate..

No one is judging anyone, Atonement, we're merely discussing the issue of the scriptural sabbath and the man-made 'holy day' of Sunday. You've jumped to your own conclusion without warrant for doing so. Moderator or not (and a bad tone you've taken at that!) do you have anything constructive to add to the topic? The scripture you gave above has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC. Are you not aware of that?

The thread topic is Sunday. Where in the Bible were Christians ever instructed to make a 'holy day' out of Sunday? Furthermore, GRACE has always been available for mankind since the beginning of time. So, please don't use that old chestnut to support your 'argument'.

An addendum: This debate only becomes foolish when you can defend it to the hilt with scripture. You can't. Enough said.

 

[Atonement]

Sorry you preceived my post as a tone that is to your disliking. I can reassure you, there was no tone. Nor was there any judging.. God knows I never felt judged by you or anyone. You read to deep in my post, take it at face vaule. It actually makes alot of since reguarding this topic. God's Blessing to you.. Your God best..

 

[John the Baptist]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

There is only one verse; ONE that even has the word Sabbath mentioned after the book of ACTS and it's the above Scripture I quoted and look what it says, read it closely.. Don't judge me if I want to celebrate the Sabbath on Tuesday, or Thursday or even Sunday; We are not under the Mosiac Law, but under Grace.. Show me in the New Testament that we are to observe the Sabbath. Start from ACTS going to Revelation?????????? There is none, this is such a foolish debate..

********
You say:
this is such a foolish debate..[/quote] Good/grief poster, and your 'fold' talks of one being Born Again???????
Hebrews 10:15-16 And your mind only has 9 of them! Or perhaps none??
Revelation 12:17 is [susposed to be] the dragon who makes 'war with ... the remnant ... [which keep the commandments of God] (WHICH YOU CALL FOOLISH :roll: ) and [have the testimony of Jesus Christ]."!!

Christ said "[IF] ye love me keep My Commandments" And the Matthew 4:4 verse is directed straight at your !
This 'message' comes across as one that has no conscience????? Romans 8:14??? Living here in the Bible Belt of the south, the daily news both in the paper & T.V. is seeing a huge rise of 'church' folk, both lay & pastors that seem to be having 'conscience' trouble? But the Law of God is being called a 'foolish debate'?? It seems that 'some' are going the way of the Exodus 16:4 & Exodus 16:27-28 God used only the 7th Day Sabbath to TEST these ones for faithfulness of all ten!

But in the above post, we see all law voided out! And that is exactly how planet earth is going!! :robot: :robot:

---John

 

[cyberjosh]

But, it is still ingrained in the minds of most Christians that Sunday is the Sabbath day or at least 'a holy day' ...is it not? Thanks for the PM, by the way.

It has become commonplace but I can hardly call it a bad observance. Many Churches also usually have "church" though more than one day out of the week, similar to how the Jews would go to the synagogues just about everyday for the reading of Scripture.

Yes, I know. I don't REALLY have an accurate answer on that one. But, tradition has played a huge part in Christianity and, unless issues such as this are brought to one's attention, most would not think about it. You yourself have admitted that you read and study the scriptures. And yet, you have somehow arrived at Sunday as being some kind of a 'holy day'. The actual scriptures say no such thing. In the minds of many, however, they believe that the Bible DOES state that Sunday is the Sabbath. Many even believe that Sunday is the 7th-day!

You are missing the point, I'm not declaring any day as a specific day to observe the Sabbath. I've observed it on Saturday and Sunday before. Sometimes in the past I have actually been too busy that I didn't go to church. The point is not being legalistic about it. What God really wants is our heart to be right before Him and for us to have a personal relationship with Him, submitting to His will according to His Word.

The majority of Christians only read their Bibles superficially. Furthermore, their understanding of the scriptures is tempered by the teachings and the traditions of mainstream Christianity ...much of which is the influence of the RCC.

Luckily I am not one of those people. Ever since I was 13 God has drawn me closer and closer to Him and has impassioned me to read His Word more and more. I take God seriously and I agree with the lyrics of the song "Fields of Grace" by Big Daddy Weave which says "there's a place where religion finally dies". Religion has become the biggest ritualistic, legalistic trap ever set before men because it becomes dead and empty quickly. God has real power and has put His very real Holy Spirit in us, and we were truely "meant to live for so much more, but we lost ourselves" (Switchfoot) in dead religion where God is no longer real to us and His power is dumbed down in ceremonies. I have over the last 6 years become awakened to the history of the Bible as God has preserved it over the centuries and I have sought to study the Bible in the original languages, and I would like to become an amatuer Hebrew Scholar eventually.

I am now also currently writing a book on the life of Jesus which was inspired by watching the two powerful Christian media productions "The Passion" and "The Gospel of John". I love God and his Word intimately and I think I've discovered the fire that David had for God. And I think I now understand personally the verse which David wrote and Jesus demonstrated "Zeal for Your house has consumed me." (John 2:17; Psalm 69:9)

Most don't give the issue another thought and perhaps go to church to mainly socialize.

I know! Using Church as just a social setting is my biggest pet-peave in the Church. Our old Church's youth group fell into that. I tried to step up a leader in the Youth Group and start a Bible trivia time every Wednesday night to inspire people to read their Bible more, and it did work...to the extent that it really brought out those who were really there to learn about God's Word and which ones were there just to socialize and goof around. You could tell by the participation and attention given to the trivia. It was a blessing though, while it lasted.

If you do a history study as to how and why transference of the 7th-day Sabbath to Sunday came about I think you might take the issue more seriously. I did.

I have. I'm not ignorant to it. I am not detered though, just as the "Origins of Easter" discussions do not phase me. I'm still going to observe it as a day to worship the one true God and celebrate my Risen Lord; regardless of what someone thinks it might have been established for.

 

[John the Baptist]

You are missing the point, I'm not declaring any day as a specific day to observe the Sabbath. I've observed it on Saturday and Sunday before. Sometimes in the past I have actually been too busy that I didn't go to church. The point is not being legalistic about it. What God really wants is our heart to be right before Him and for us to have a personal relationship with Him, submitting to His will according to His Word.

Quote:

****
Hi cyber,
this really sounds like the poster is totally confused, at best?? But for other's of the forum here, let me just give Christ's Words of Matthew 7:21-24.

Don't get me wrong, just do your thing, but to 'post' and say that the ones who keep the Commandments of God.. Revelation 12:17 are legalists??? You say: 'The point is not to be legalistic about it.'

Of all of Christs Words (from cover to cover) He just simply states, "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS". This LOVE is legalistic??? :roll: How in the world can you read the motives of ANYONE??? Yet you use this to twist the Word of God even to say that we should not OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE????????? See 2 Corinthians 4:2

Whatever? Just do your thing?? But what you are doing friend is [POSTING] stuff doing away with Christ's Word! Matthew 28:20, Revelation 22:18-19, (if ones name is in the Book of Life to begin with) Ecclesiastes 3:14, Ecclesiastes 12:13-4 & all the while saying that God is a required Legalist because He only gives the Holy Spirit to those who 'OBEY HIM"?? Acts 5:32, and Obedience is, again, legalism :robot:!
--John

 

[cyberjosh]

Don't get me wrong, just do your thing, but to 'post' and say that the ones who keep the Commandments of God.. Revelation 12:17 are legalists??? You say: 'The point is not to be legalistic about it.'

You are misunderstanding me and broadening my point beyond how I intended to use it. I meant legalistic specifically in respect to when you observe the Sabbath.

Remember the occasion upon which Paul wrote the Galatians? The Galatians who had been set free in Christ were being mislead from their simple and pure devotion to Christ by Judaizers who sought to impress legalistic observances on them by saying that they must do this, this, and this before God will be pleased.

Paul spoke against this saying: "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain." (Galatians 4:9-11)

The underlined portion refers to Jewish holy days that they were told to observe lest they displease God.

Paul had run into such Judaizers before:

"Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.' And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue." (Acts 15:1-2)

This is what kicked off the ever-important Jerusalem Council which discussed the requirements of the brethren (specifically the Gentiles) to live before God in relation to the law (and not just circumcision). At this summit even Peter sees the enourmous burden that the law would put on believers:

"He [God] made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:9-10)

Even James agrees with Paul and Peter:

"Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. " (Acts 15:19-20)

Significantly from that list we do not see an edict for Gentiles to observe the Sabbath. Yet Judaizers ignore this and try to " trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles" with things "neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear".

Whatever? Just do your thing?? But what you are doing friend is [POSTING] stuff doing away with Christ's Word!

No, no, never! We obey Christ and his inspired Word. I am merely pointing out to you the freedom in Christ we have been given, and what we have been freed from in the Law.

Now Christ fulfilled all of the Law perfectly and he is our role model for living so we should strive to live like him but we are released from the dire consequences when we fail to keep "a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear" and we fall & stumble (which we all do from time to time).

And it is also clear that some things (indeed many things) have been superceded in the law by Christ's authority, somethings of which we have been freed from for good. One reason though that we observe the Sabbath still today though is that we love the Lord, we want to dedicate time to him, and we wish for his Church to meet together for prayer and edification.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Hi cyber

While I appreciate your gentle tone I really DO have to take exception with the implication that keeping the sabbath is "a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear." Poor little us that we should obey a nasty burdensome command of God! :smt022 And, why is keeping a 'man-made' sabbath (Sunday) every week any LESS of a burden than keeping the one day (Saturday, the 7th) that God asked of us?

You say, "One reason though that we observe the Sabbath still though is that we love the Lord and want to dedicate time to him and for his Church to meet together."

I'm confused. So you DO believe in Sabbath observation? Why, then, do you not keep the ACTUAL Sabbath day which is the 7th-day of the weekly cycle ...the day that was blest and made holy at Creation?

 

[cyberjosh]

While I appreciate your gentle tone I really DO have to take exception with the implication that keeping the sabbath is "a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear." Poor little us that we should obey a nasty burdensome command of God! :smt022 And, why is keeping a 'man-made' sabbath (Sunday) every week any LESS of a burden than keeping the one day (Saturday, the 7th) that God asked of us?

Peter meant alot more than just the Sabbath when he said that, he was discussing all the legalistic requirements of the law such as circumcision, dietary habits, etc. etc. I merely believe that Sabbath observance was also one of the many things not required. And I think Peter (as Paul talks extensively on in Romans) was also viewing this on a large scale of life-times. All you have to do is sin once in your life and you have already offended the law in all points.This is indeed a heavy burden! This is where Jesus' blood comes into effect when we fall & stumble.

Also please don't discard the rest of my arguement, I quoted Galatians and showed that on the list sent to the Gentiles the Sabbath was not listed as required. Please do a point by point, quote-and-response to be thorough (if you don't mind).

You say, "One reason though that we observe the Sabbath still though is that we love the Lord and want to dedicate time to him and for his Church to meet together."

I'm confused. So you DO believe in Sabbath observation? Why, then, do you not keep the ACTUAL Sabbath day which is the 7th-day of the weekly cycle ...the day that was blest and made holy at Creation?

Now of course Jesus changed the Sabbath requirements even when he came, claiming his authority as Lord of the Sabbath so the day was ultimately not about keeping a specific set of laws but of remembering God, helping others (and doing good in general), and learning from God's Word. The Church does that in the spirit of the Sabbath today, whether it is an actually point-for-point Jewish observance of the Sabbath though might be another matter.

I will respond to this in more detail later with the help of a commentary I consulted today, but I do not think the Sabbath was required of believers once Christ came.

P.S. I just sent you a PM. I hope you can respond to the post to you I mentioned there.

~Josh