Supernatural

[GundamZero]

Often times I'll be asked by someone who doens't believe, "How can you believ all that? Science has disproven it all."

Obviously, we can easily start bickering with all our little facts and figures. The believer brings up Dr. So-and-so's evidence, and the other Dr. Who's stuff. That fact of the matter is that we can bend the facts, omit them, play with them, or completely misinterpret them.

However, as I often repeat to many, we'll never be able to prove or disprove God by science alone. What I mean is, science is based on observing the laws of nature. But does the fact that the earth spins around the sun, spinning on its own axis, and what not, have anything to do with the fact that the earth is spinning. The laws of nature only show us how nature works. Momentum tells me that if I hit ball A into ball B, that a certain amount of energy will be transfered to B and it will move. Will ball A cause ball B to move in reality? No, actually, someone has to strike it, or something has to act on it first. So we see that our science and our laws only record what we see, they don't explain it.

But we're talking about someone who caused the laws of nature, not whom the laws of nature caused; they really cause nothing.

That's, after all, why we call it SUPERnatural. It can't be explained by the laws of nature. Thus, if it can't be grapsed, captured, observed obeying the laws of nature, there is no reason to presume that the laws of nature may prove of disprove it.

Just something to think about.

 

[Bick]

HI GZ. Actually science is learning much about the beginnings of the universe and our Solar system, that their conclusions point to a Beginner of the universe.

A Christian organization was founded to show that the Scriptures and Science are not at odds, but dove-tail together.

This organization is Reasons to Believe. It is on the web as reasons.org.
The founder and president is Dr. Hugh Ross, an astronomer and an assistant minister.

He wrote "The finger print of God" some years ago, and updates it. I would highly recommend it.

Anyway much info can be acquired through their web site.

Bick

 

[Quath]

I aree that God can not be disproven by science. It is hard to disprove anything. For example, you can not prove you are not hooked up to the Matrix.

I don't see how you can show that science is leaning towards a Creator with Big Bang stuff. If there are undetermined variables about our universe, you could either assume God set it up or you could assume that there are many universes that go through the cominations of variables (cyclic universe, black hole spawning new universes, or just an infinite number of universes).

 

[GundamZero]

Quath, it's often thought that Christians believe the universe to be enternal. However, this is not so. We believe that the universe, and all natural order, are thus created and finite, from out of eternity and therefore, not the same as eternity.

That said, the Big bang is certainly no where near the point to become the best theory for the creation of the universe. However, many physicists have found that the universe cannot be set to a single point in time space.

To this I have two theories. Space time was spawned some how out of one point. However, if much of the matter in the unverse was still traveling at velocities near the speed of light, the position of these masses slowing down would cause a warp in their vector. If the universe did indeed come from a single point, then I could certainly agree with that. Like a sound wave eminating from one spot and spreading, the universe may very well have expanded as if spoken.

The other theory is that space and time was created in separate points. First came a suspended space, then time. This two would help to understand a vast universe confined out of eternity and into the present.

My dear Bick, while science can support our position, it can't really prove it. How can we limit God to our understanding? The laws of nature are confines of reality as we know it. God is not confined. He left us clues to guide us, but learning and knowing all are two different things, that latter of which can never be accomplished by man. Remember, John did not say that science is the beginnings of our salvation, but rather it is written:
This is the victory that over comes the world, even our faith.

But is would do well for all of us to continue our studies in the academic fields. For we were also commanded to love God with all our minds.

 

[TanNinety]

we'll never be able to prove or disprove God by science alone.

True. Science is not a tool that can measure the supernatural, so it definitely cannot be used in either proving or disproving the existence of God. Albeit it can be used to disprove the hypothesis derived by interpretation of scripture. A fine example is using scripture to say that earth is flat which has been disproved by science. This however does not challenge the core statement for existence of God, just the hypothesis surrounding it.

Quath brings a valid argument, the “god of the gapsâ€Â. Where theists introduce “God did it†into anything that hasn’t been explained yet. This of course, is a very bad approach to hold on to one’s belief. When a suitable explanation is found for that “undertermined variable†as Quath pointed out, a theist then has to proceed to retreat God from that explanation.

Reading through your above posts I concur that you have taken the right stance. Science is not atheism.

 

[Vic C.]

I aree that God can not be disproven by science. It is hard to disprove anything. For example, you can not prove you are not hooked up to the Matrix.

Oh, that's priceless Scott. : Though, some do go out of their way to try and prove that. 8-)

 

[GundamZero]

Many people use dogmas that were set in place by people and confuse it for scriptures. For instance, the idea the earth is flat was never an argument waged from scripture. It was set in place by a Popi who happened to prefer that notion at the time. When Galileo was attacked for his findings, there wasn't a shred of scripture used to convict him.

True, science is not atheism.