SupportFromScripture

[Hitch]

Which would be easier to suport from scripture, standard rapture theories or the deification of Mary?

 

[craigmn3]

Standard rapture scriptures exist

These chief among them.

Revelation 3:

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

1 Thesselonians 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[b]
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Along with the knowledge that Satan will not be free to act as long as there is a Christian who know's his authority walking around.....when the Holy Spirit has left (in the hearts of the believer)

This is why I am a pre-tribber with mid trib tendancies.... certainly no later than mid trib with the beast is revealed to the whole world.


There are no scriptures about Mary, other than her annuciation and presence at the cross

 

[Hitch]

Standard rapture scriptures exist

These chief among them.

Revelation 3:

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

1 Thesselonians 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[b]
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The truth of your passage is not in question but it must conform to our Lords personal prophetic word wrt the resurrection as obviously resurrection is the main theme in your passage;

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[ Not to mention a host of other passages and parables that indicate the Lord's return is directly followed with judgement and the eternal state. Wether believers will float up in the sky doesnt matter, that may be what is in view here, the trouble and the reason I mentioned 'standard rapture theories' is that they all call for sustained history following the return of the Lord, in contrast to his own prophecy quoted from Jn 6. Plain statements from scripture must literally be turned upside down to make room , and the same can be said of the passages used to support the assumption of Mary. As you said there just isnt any support for it.
Along with the knowledge that Satan will not be free to act as long as there is a Christian who know's his authority walking around.....when the Holy Spirit has left (in the hearts of the believer)

This is why I am a pre-tribber with mid trib tendancies.... certainly no later than mid trib with the beast is revealed to the whole world.


There are no scriptures about Mary, other than her annuciation and presence at the cross[/QUOTE]

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Revelation 3:

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

John 17;15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.



Do you not believe God can keep anyone from evil without taking them out of the world as Jesus asked God?
Or do you think its not possible with God?

 

[Hitch]

John 17;15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.



Do you not believe God can keep anyone from evil without taking them out of the world as Jesus asked God?
Or do you think its not possible with God?

You and I dont agrere much but J 17;15 is devastating to rapturism.

 

[farouk]

You and I dont agrere much but J 17;15 is devastating to rapturism.

H:

There is nothing in John 17.15 that contradicts 1 Thess. 4.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You and I dont agrere much but J 17;15 is devastating to rapturism.

Im not looking to go out of the world though.I think I would like to take a trip to the kingdom though.
Mt 25;34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Do you know where that is?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

nm
nm

 

[Hitch]

Im not looking to go out of the world though.I think I would like to take a trip to the kingdom though.
Mt 25;34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Do you know where that is?

I dont give a rip as to the location of the eternal state.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I dont give a rip as to the location of the eternal state.

I know you dont.

 

[Scotth1960]

Which would be easier to suport from scripture, standard rapture theories or the deification of Mary?

Dear Hitch, The Scripture teaches neither the pretribulation rapture nor the "deification" of Mary. Mary is ever-virgin, but not immaculately conceived. She is not a goddess or divine. But she is blessed among women, blessed above all other women. And she is the Mother of God. Because Christ is God. She is Christ's Mother.
Some Protestants fail to understand Matthew 1:25 and Ezekiel 44:1-3. Sorry to say, they miss out on God's truth in Scripture. (St. Jude 3). In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Hitch]

Dear Hitch, The Scripture teaches neither the pretribulation rapture nor the "deification" of Mary. Mary is ever-virgin,

Yawn chapter and verse ?

but not immaculately conceived. She is not a goddess or divine. But she is blessed among women, blessed above all other women. And she is the Mother of God. Because Christ is God. She is Christ's Mother.

Wow thats news, hey did you hear about Lincoln ?

Some Protestants fail to understand Matthew 1:25 and Ezekiel 44:1-3. Sorry to say, they miss out on God's truth in Scripture. (St. Jude 3). In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

The OP question is which would be easier to prove. You dumped Mary's supposed diety but just as quickly replaced it with something nearly as bad.

Support it from scripture

Maybe you can cite 10 or 12 examples of righteous women who refused to consumate their marriages from scripture.

 

[Vic C.]

Maybe you can cite 10 or 12 examples of righteous women who refused to consumate their marriages from scripture.

Lets not and lets stick to things End Times-related please.

Thanks. :yes

 

[Hitch]

Lets not and lets stick to things End Times-related please.

Thanks. :yes

The purspos of this thread was to show that there are some similarities between aspects of the Cult of Mary and futurist eschatology.

Specifically weak scriptural support.

 

[reba]

The purspos of this thread was to show that there are some similarities between aspects of the Cult of Mary and futurist eschatology.

Specifically weak scriptural support.

You know Hitch asking for scripture support for ones theology makes for short threads! :angel

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Which would be easier to suport from scripture, standard rapture theories or the deification of Mary?

Is this a rhetorical question, or did you leave off C.), None of the above?

 

[Hitch]

Is this a rhetorical question, or did you leave off C.), None of the above?

The expectation was that vociferous critics of the RCC would take the bait, and eventually be left grasping thier 'precious' with the same support from scripture ,or lack, that they had employed wrt Mary.

Cant catch one every time :D

 

[Scotth1960]

Yawn chapter and verse ? Wow thats news, hey did you hear about Lincoln ? The OP question is which would be easier to prove. You dumped Mary's supposed diety but just as quickly replaced it with something nearly as bad.

Support it from scripture

Maybe you can cite 10 or 12 examples of righteous women who refused to consumate their marriages from scripture.

Dear Hitch, That is an ad hominem argument and a lack of understanding of Scripture. Scripture praises both marriage and virginity (celibacy).
It also says there is room for forgiveness of sexual immorality. People who have committed sins against chastity can be forgiven, as can any sinner who repents.
As for Mary, she is different from other women. She had God in her womb.
That is bound to change everything.

Dear Hitch, Show us one verse that says "The children of Mary and Joseph", and you will have a case for other children of Mary. Until then, you have not proven that Mary is not ever-virgin. Actually, you just bring up irrelevancy like "Abraham Lincoln", which is most illogical. When you get frustrated, you just say whatever pops into your head. I believe if you will read my other posts regarding the Virgin Mary that I showed from the ONT (Orthodox New Testament) that St. Joseph was not knowing Mary. Only a preconceived bias that Mary must have other children in order to be faithful to God is behind this doctrinal chaos. People misunderstand Mary's role in our salvation, and fail to bless her and call her "blessed", which is what she is, regardless of how some malign her as "just a normal woman". There is nothing abnormal about marrying and having children.
This was not Mary's purpose. She brought through her cooperation the birth of the only-begotten Son of God. No wonder she is called "full of grace" (full of Christ) and blessed among all women. She is the Ark of the New Covenant. The Mother of all Christians. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Hitch]

Dear Hitch, That is an ad hominem argument and a lack of understanding of Scripture. Scripture praises both marriage and virginity ] (celibacy).

Yawn

It also says there is room for forgiveness of sexual immorality. People who have committed sins against chastity can be forgiven, as can any sinner who repents.
As for Mary, she is different from other women. She had God in her womb.
That is bound to change everything.

Meaningless drivel

Dear Hitch, Show us one verse that says "The children of Mary and Joseph", and you will have a case for other children of Mary

Whats is wrong with you?

, . Until then, you have not proven that Mary is not ever-virgin.

Well any idiot can see that door swings both ways [/quote] Actually, you just bring up irrelevancy like "Abraham Lincoln", which is most illogical. When you get frustrated, you just say whatever pops into your head. I believe if you will read my other posts regarding the Virgin Mary that I showed from the ONT [/quote ] LOL another mind reader .

(Orthodox New Testament) that St. Joseph was not knowing Mary. Only a preconceived bias that Mary must have other children in order to be faithful to God is behind this doctrinal chaos. People misunderstand Mary's role in our salvation, and fail to bless her and call her "blessed", which is what she is, regardless of how some malign her as "just a normal woman". There is nothing abnormal about marrying and having children.
This was not Mary's purpose. She brought through her cooperation the birth of the only-begotten Son of God. No wonder she is called "full of grace" (full of Christ) and blessed among all women. She is the Ark of the New Covenant. The Mother of all Christians. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

So that perpetual virgin nonsense has no support at all. None you can quote . You have offered nothing from scripture. Please keep to topic.

Right up there with rapture drivel.

 

[Scotth1960]

Yawn Meaningless drivel Whats is wrong with you? Well any idiot can see that door swings both ways

Actually, you just bring up irrelevancy like "Abraham Lincoln", which is most illogical. When you get frustrated, you just say whatever pops into your head. I believe if you will read my other posts regarding the Virgin Mary that I showed from the ONT [/quote ] LOL another mind reader .
So that perpetual virgin nonsense has no support at all. None you can quote . You have offered nothing from scripture. Please keep to topic.

Right up there with rapture drivel.[/QUOTE]
Hitch, Despite your meanspirited tone, you continue to deny truth. You didn't you? Say of yourself, "I am a Calvinist". But you know Calvin believed Mary is "ever virgin". In that you are not, then, a Calvinist. If a man teaches any major error, he should not be referred to as a teacher. It is not a major error, but to think ours is the first generation of Christians to come to the Bible is ignoring the facts of history. The truths of Christianity do not change, and our opinions of them matter not. Christ's truth remains the same. You're bored with my words? What about me? You still have not produced one text that says "the children of Mary and Joseph". Then your mind wanders to Abraham Lincoln. Can you not stick to the topic. Get a hold on reality here. Why refer to Lincoln in a discussion on Christ and Mary? What has Lincoln got to do with anything, for goodness sake? Just wondering! God bless (you). I'm sure you mean well, you're just a bit illogical. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington