"Teachings that are but rules taught by men"

[Heidi]

Matthew 15:7 -7,

"You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 'These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men."

Seeing the bible as a rule book done out of obedience to rules taught by men instead of following one's heart is again like a wife who consults a list to see how to love her husband and only doing what is on that list and following it explicity. This leads to not showing him love except on one day of the week, or only giving him 10 percent of what money she makes, instead of shouting it from the rooftops whenever her heart desires or giving him all of her money instead of only what was on the list.

This is what people do who honor Jesus with their lips but their heatrs are far from him. These are what Jesus calls "teachings that are but rules taught by men."

Writing the law on our hearts is what the NT is all about! It is not a rulebook that one consults out of obligation or duty. It is the new Convenant that Jesus circumcized on our hearts. When Jesus washed our hearts with the Holy Spirit, he gave us love for him and out of that love we respond. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks."

Therefore, foolish quibbling about the law is moot. It accomplishes nothing but dissention and quarelling. It also cannot get us to heaven because "flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." Only the spirit inside of us is heaven and without it, we have no access. Once we receive the Spirit, we respond from the Spirit as much as a woman in love with her husband will respond from her love rather than because she's supposed to. And that's why they are called the "fruits of the Spirit", not the fruits of our labors. So instead of arguing about the law, simply ask God to give you the Holy Spirit, and the law will then be circumcized on your heart.

 

[mutzrein]

BUMP!

Wow, it's hard to believe no-one responded to this.

 

[Imagican]

I will.

Heidi, once again you have offered what I always 'thougt' ANY Christian would understand from the BEGINNING of their walk. Boy, was I WRONG. Since attempting fellowship with those that 'claim' to be Christian, both on these forums and in my 'little world', I have found this NOT to be the case. There are many that will argue continuously about the law and what we MUST do in order to be 'saved'. Oblivious to the 'truth' that NOTHING we can do will make us 'right' with God. It's not a matter of 'what' we do, it's HOW WE DO IT. And if it's through obligation, it's of NO effect.

Many will give out of guilt or obligation TOTALLY missing the point of giving to start with. If it's not done out of LOVE, it means NOTHING TO GOD. And I don't mean love of oneself.

If we were able to follow the law then Christ need not have died to start with. God forgives those that are willing to accept His forgiveness. He KNOWS that we are weak and offers His strength to guide us and protect us IF we will LET HIM.

The problem is that 'religion' gets in the way. No, not God's Word, not the teachings of Christ, BUT RELIGION. Men teaching men THEIR way instead of THE WAY. And for every man that creates a NEW religion there seem to be multitudes ready and waiting to 'follow THEM' and 'separate themselves' from their 'true brothers and sisters' in Christ.

MEC

 

[mutzrein]

I don't want to take over Heidi's thread but it's good to see someone's onto it. Thankyou MEC. It makes one wonder sometimes doesn't it - is there no comprehension on these matters or . . . ?

 

[scorpia]

Matthew 15:7 -7,

]"You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 'These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men."

Seeing the bible as a rule book done out of obedience to rules taught by men instead of following one's heart is again like a wife who consults a list to see how to love her husband and only doing what is on that list and following it explicity. This leads to not showing him love except on one day of the week, or only giving him 10 percent of what money she makes, instead of shouting it from the rooftops whenever her heart desires or giving him all of her money instead of only what was on the list.

This is what people do who honor Jesus with their lips but their heatrs are far from him. These are what Jesus calls "teachings that are but rules taught by men."

Is this one way of saying obeying God thru the dictate of men's understanding of what is written in the bible instead of obeying God as to how God does exist in His own way? God is not the bible but the Almighty One in whom nothing is impossible with Him, isn't He?

]Writing the law on our hearts is what the NT is all about! It is not a rulebook that one consults out of obligation or duty. It is the new Convenant that Jesus circumcized on our hearts. When Jesus washed our hearts with the Holy Spirit, he gave us love for him and out of that love we respond. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks."

Do you mean to say that we should make the Lord God Jesus Christ as the focus and object of our faith instead of the bible because of the fact that Jesus can teach us even today all the truth about the bible?

 

[Preacher Boy]

Saved by grace through faith, not works (law)

So we are only saved by Faith in Christ buut unto good works!

I do good works because i am save dand not to get saved!

Amen!

Let the Love of Christ constrain us to serve him with all of our being!

 

[francisdesales]

Saved by grace through faith, not works (law)

So we are only saved by Faith in Christ buut unto good works!

I do good works because i am save dand not to get saved!

Amen!

Let the Love of Christ constrain us to serve him with all of our being!

May I suggest that one must have faith in addition to works of love to be saved? At least that is what Scriptures tell us:

"What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith [alone] be able to save him?" James 2:14,15

According to James, a faith that doesn't produce love is dead. He doesn't say that faith PRODUCES good works! That much is clear by reading James 2 - especially when he challenges Christians with faith to reflect on their actions:

For if there shall come into your assembly a man having a golden ring, in fine apparel, and there shall come in also a poor man in mean attire, And you have respect to him that is clothed with the fine apparel, and shall say to him: Sit thou here well; but say to the poor man: Stand thou there, or sit under my footstool: Do you not judge within yourselves, and are become judges of unjust thoughts? Hearken, my dearest brethren: hath not God chosen the poor in this world, rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which God hath promised to them that love him? But you have dishonoured the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you by might? and do not they draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme the good name that is invoked upon you? If then you fulfil the royal law, according to the scriptures, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; you do well. But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, being reproved by the law as transgressors. James 2:2-9

This passage of James can be asked of each one of us... What would I do if faced with this situation... Would I offer a poor man a position of respect, or would I give it to the rich man? James tells us that such "faith" is dead. This is one example of our daily battle that we face. Thus, James (and the rest of the writers of the NT) clearly tell us that we must also love others.

Regards

 

[mutzrein]

The works come as a result of our relationship with God. We don't achieve the relationship because of what we do. I think that is the crux of what preacher boy said.

 

[unred typo]

Mutzrein wrote: The works come as a result of our relationship with God. We don't achieve the relationship because of what we do. I think that is the crux of what preacher boy said.
[/M]

Think about this. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. That’s just a simple statement putting the relationship between God and Abraham into words. What actually does that mean, “believed God� God said to Abraham to leave his family and go to an unknown place. Abraham believed and trusted God and left. God said to Abraham to take his son up on a mountain and sacrifice him. Abraham believed and trusted God and took Isaac up the mountain with full intention of sacrificing him there.

Now we are told to believe the gospel and be saved. What is the gospel? Good news that Jesus preached that the common people received gladly. What did Jesus preach? His sermon on the mount in Matthew 5:1 through 7:29 is one example of what he preached. It’s not a parable and it’s not hidden. Read it, believe it, do it. Then, and only then, will you be following the true Way of salvation. You must believe and trust Jesus just as Abraham believed and trusted God. Jesus says, “Why do you call me Lord and do not what I command?â€Â

You are about to scream that if we could be saved by keeping commands, Jesus would not have to have died. That’s right. He is our sacrifice for the sins we commit. If we repent and confess our sins, he can forgive us on the basis of this sacrifice alone, otherwise even the blood of sheep and goats would never take away our sin permanently. This confession and repentance is a daily occurrence, or we would not have been instructed to confess and forsake our sins daily.

Hebrews 3:12
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in [their] heart; and they have not known my ways. So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Do you see how that works are a result of our belief in the Way that Jesus preached to be saved? Do you see that without the works, there is no true belief, and there will be no salvation?

.

 

[francisdesales]

Do you see how that works are a result of our belief in the Way that Jesus preached to be saved? Do you see that without the works, there is no true belief, and there will be no salvation?

Good job. Without works, faith is dead. Paul even adds that one can have all the faith in the world, but without love, it is worthless (I'd define that as "not salvific"). And you are correct, we are challenged DAILY to show our faith through loving actions. But giving ourselves over to God makes the "burden" light.

Regards

 

[Jay T]

Saved by grace through faith, not works (law)

So we are only saved by Faith in Christ buut unto good works!

I do good works because i am save dand not to get saved!

I think you have it right !
Keeping the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) is a result of being saved, not in order to get saved.

Jesus mentioned keeping the commandments, but ONLY...if one loved Him, first (John 14:15) !

That is the bad thing about Sunday worship services, as it is not. showing love for Jesus Christ, but disobedience to Him.

 

[Remember]

Men teaching men THEIR way instead of THE WAY.

This seems to be what the heart of what this thread is about. Following man-made teachings instead of God's commands. In order to know what God commands, we must have a source which informs us of His wishes. Do we all agree that the Bible is His source of our information in this regard?

 

[D46]

The works come as a result of our relationship with God. We don't achieve the relationship because of what we do. I think that is the crux of what preacher boy said.

To coin a phrase from the '70's...right on!

James 2:15-17 (KJV) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

I think Martin Luther had a problem with the Book of James in that he didn't fully understand what James was saying and consequently, he calls it an "epistle of straw".

Luther thought that James teaches the doctrine of justification by the merit of good works, while Paul asserts this to be insufficient, and that man is justified by faith. Luther, supposing that James did actually teach the doctrine of justification by works, which his good sense showed him to be absolutely insufficient for salvation, was led to condemn the epistle in toto, as a production unauthenticated by the Holy Spirit, and consequently worthy of no regard; he therefore termed it epistola straminea, a chaffy epistle, an epistle of straw, fit only to be burnt. Learned men have spent much time in striving to reconcile these two writers, and to show that Paul and James perfectly accord; one teaching the pure doctrine, the other guarding men against the abuse of it. From James 1:22 the apostle has been enforcing Christian practice. He now applies to those who neglect this under the pretense of faith. Paul had taught that a man is justified by faith without the works of the law. This some already began to "wrest to their own destruction." Wherefore, James does not refute Paul, but the error of those who abused it.

As the Jews, in general, were very strenuous in maintaining the necessity of good works or righteousness in order to justification, wholly neglecting the doctrine of faith, it is not to be wondered at those who were converted, and saw the absolute necessity of faith in order to their justification, should have gone to the contrary extreme.

I recall an incident around 30 years ago at work as myself and a few co-workers were looking out a 2nd story window at the downtown area where we worked, and saw an old man begin to gather cardboard from a nearby dumpster and put it into an alley. The guys I was standing there with begin to make light of the situation saying he was a wino and that was his home for the night. I didn't perceive it as being funny and was moved with compassion for this old man and even though I knew I'd be ridiculed for helping him, I got on the elevator and went out to where he was now sitting on a bench. I sat down beside him and as we began to talk, he told me he had lost his wife, had no children and was alone now. He had been a painter and was layed off and lost his home and had nowhere to go. I didn't have much in my wallet-maybe $10-20 but whatever I had, I gave it to him and told him if he had to sleep behind those buildings, to at least get a couple of good meals for the night. I hadn't enough to give him for a room downtown but, I did what I could at the moment.

Did I do that to be pleasing in the eyes of God for my "good works"? No, it never even crossed my mind. I just felt compassion for him and thought at the least, I could acknowledge him by talking with him and finding out his story. I was laughed at by my fellow workers as being a "sucker" but, it didn't matter-I knew the truth about that old man and wish I could have done more. Would I have done this if I hadn't known God at that point? I don't know. Was it the heart of God that prompted me to go down to talk with him? I don't know. What good would it have done him if I had said, "Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled."? Only by the grace and goodness of God, that old man could have been me.