That They May Be As One

[Mike]

John 17:

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

How far do we take this unity of believers prayed for by Christ? How much do we need to agree on to fulfill this prayer? Can we, should we, accept different beliefs concerning non-salvation issues, or will we, do we need to, be in concert with each other in full? Do you believe it's enough to know where to place our faith in salvation, and confess who Jesus is? Can this prayer be fulfilled in a Body of Christ divided by smaller issues but united in Him?

How closely are we to "be as one"?

 

[theLords]

John 17:



How far do we take this unity of believers prayed for by Christ? How much do we need to agree on to fulfill this prayer? Can we, should we, accept different beliefs concerning non-salvation issues, or will we, do we need to, be in concert with each other in full? Do you believe it's enough to know where to place our faith in salvation, and confess who Jesus is? Can this prayer be fulfilled in a Body of Christ divided by smaller issues but united in Him?

How closely are we to "be as one"?

When the wolrd persecutes us it doesn't care if we're Lutheran, Protestant, Anglican, Baptist etc. I think this should be our standard for "oneness"

The Bible says not to "criticize your brothers habits." I think that shows that there's a level of differences within the body that should be respected. Our oneness should be in the proclamation that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God, who paid the price for our sins, and all who believe in Him will be forgiven and have eternal life." This is a true Christian.

Each one of us is to "work out our salvation before God with fear and trembling." If we are sincere in this before God He will lead us to the truth even if it takes years. Each one of us is responsible for our theological beliefs before God. We stand alone when we give an account for our lives.

If someone believes that the is no trinity and has come to that conclusion after sincerely seeking the Lord. Has searched the scriptures, prayed for guidance etc. I can respect that. That person will eventually find God's perspective on the matter. But it's much different if someone doesn't believe in the trinity because it's hard to explain, illogical, they're ashamed etc. However only God knows the heart of that person and can distinguish between the two.

 

[Nathan]

I smiled when I saw this title in the forum. I think you know my position. And part of the problem with typing on a screen is that we cannot see each others demeanor and truly recognize the sincerity or sarcasm each one is portraying when making a post.

However, what I love about typing out my thoughts is that they are recorded. Whether good or bad. I cannot deny them ever. It makes me more methodical in my approach. And I appreciate the ability to re-read someone else's thoughts when I am sitting somewhere contemplating the topics of the day and a fresh realization comes to me. I can then go back and re-read the original posters thoughts.

Now...lol....how does this apply to your question? It is simply this. I know I have said this somewhere before, but it bears repeating. I was contemplating the unity issue the other night. I was thinking about the apostles and their message to those who would believe in Christ through their message. I got to thinking, "how cool would it be to know that someone out there had in their heart and mind the original message of Christ. Passed down from generation to generation of believer. Down through the ages, the original message intact."

Then I thought...we have the message written down... God had the foresight to see that the message could, and would, be distorted, abused, misused, forgotten, and abandoned. He moved the inspired writings of four different accounts of the life and ministry of Christ. So, in a way, we have the original message that Christ was talking about here in His prayer.

How far do we take this unity of believers prayed for by Christ?

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:

I think that it is overtly clear what unity He was speaking about here. I think that there can be no argument that the unity of God and the Son transcended any "salvation" issues alone. They are one.

Can this prayer be fulfilled in a Body of Christ divided by smaller issues but united in Him?

Is Christ divided? What a interesting question Paul asked to the believers at Corinth. I mean, after all, they were just following after different teachings, things not necessary for salvation. Yet Paul seems to have an issue with their divisiveness. He goes on to make several rhetorical statements, culminating with the plead of "...consider your calling, brothers:..." and then finally ending with "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

It seems that Paul brings them back down to the focus of things. And here is where I falter. Paul brings them back to the central message of Christ and Christ alone. And we can catch this undertone in Jesus prayer for us also. "I have given them the glory that you gave me..." If we first do not understand that this unity will only come from Him, His glory working in us, the Spirit inside of us...until we come to grips with that unity is vanity.

I find it interesting that unity is a process. "May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me..." Again, it goes without saying that the unity He speaks of is "complete". But more importantly, it is something that we are brought to.

Here is where I am at. Here are some statements that would sum up my belief on the subject;

"I believe complete and total unity can be something that can happen, and should happen since Christ desired it to be so."

"I believe that unity will only come when we focus on the only One who can unify us."

"I believe that unity does not "just happen". It takes time, and desire."

"I believe that unity cannot be faked, because it only comes from God, and in Christ there is no darkness."

"I believe that if there is a lack of unity, there is a problem, and it does no one any good to avoid problems."

"I believe that we can have complete Faith in complete unity. It is possible because it is in black and white words for us to read today. Faith comes from hearing, hearing from the word of God."

 

[Nathan]

Not much activity here Mike. Not sure why?

Going over some other threads I saw this in some study.

Phl 2:1-6 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

So is this the one mind that we are to have? So if we applied Paul's thinking, does it not mean that we should not consider equality with Christ a thing to be grasped? So if we were to all come to the unity of Christ being Master of our lives, instead of just a "brother", then we come to unity of mind?

And if we cannot come to that point of unity, of Christ being the one we obey completely, then would that not dictate that we could not reach unity among ourselves? That it would be impossible to have unity with out complete and total submission? So if we were to take that one step further, then wouldn't that dictate that where there is disunity, it is only because we are not in total submission, and that there is a problem with that?

Just thinking out loud here...

 

[Mike]

Perhaps I didn't frame my OP right in order to elicit responses. NH, you know this, because you were involved. (not against, but involve) Let me put it this way:

As fellow believers, do we, should we, accept certain differences in "minor" beliefs. I say "minor" to point to things I would call "essential" such as God's Providence, Jesus Divinity, Faith in Christ for forgiveness of sins, Salvation only through Jesus Christ. Some examples of minor to me are a literal 6 day creation, eschatology understandings (pre-trib, post-trib), etc.

Should we accept that we will have these differences and "agree to disagree" or do we need to fight for our understanding of all truths? Yes there is One Truth in all things, and we should never stop opening our hearts to the Lord for answers to this Truth in all areas. Two opposing beliefs can not be true. Either 1 or both of them are wrong. But, is it necessary to be on the same page with everything so "that they may be as one"?

This is just a thought. From Romans 14:
"19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall."

Food was the issue here, but I believe this can be extrapolated to other areas of disagreement. Of most importance is that our eyes are fixed on God. If we're arguing our point to the point that it causes someone to stumble in his faith, I believe we'd be serving the Lord better to worship Him at his side, differences and all - providing the "essentials" are in agreement.

Is this what Jesus prayed for, or something more?

 

[Nathan]

Is it wrong to 'bump' threads?

 

[Pard]

We should not be turned away by different views. There are some things that should turn us away from others and we can argue about exactly what they are, but for the most part we in general agreement. I consider myself the same as a Baptist, who is the same as a Catholic, who is the same as a Lutheran, who is the same as an Episcopalian, who is the same as an Orthodox Greek, who is the same as me (Pentecostal).