Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The 2 comings of Post-Trib

MisterE

Member
It should always be stated that all the pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib positions all have a Rapture. The issue of course is the timing of it. The post-trib sees a Rapture where believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is coming number 1. Next, the Lord comes to the earth. This is coming number 2. No matter what position one holds regarding the 70th week of Dan, the Rapture is a separate coming, even if by a nano second. he meets man at two different places.

Pre-tribbers hold that the rapture is phase 1 of the Lord's coming in the air. Phase 2 is the second coming to earth. However, I don't see any reason why the pre-tribbers can't hold to 2 comings. Really this is just semantics when it comes to the the comings of Christ. Since 1 Thes calls the Rapture a coming, I personally don't have a problem with 2 comings. If you want to call them 2 phases, that's fine with me.
 
It should always be stated that all the pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib positions all have a Rapture. The issue of course is the timing of it. The post-trib sees a Rapture where believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is coming number 1. Next, the Lord comes to the earth. This is coming number 2. No matter what position one holds regarding the 70th week of Dan, the Rapture is a separate coming, even if by a nano second. he meets man at two different places.
No, that may be true of some Postribbers, but certainly not all. I personally see Christ's Coming and the "Rapture" of the Church as simultaneous. It all takes place in the "twinkling of an eye."
Pre-tribbers hold that the rapture is phase 1 of the Lord's coming in the air. Phase 2 is the second coming to earth. However, I don't see any reason why the pre-tribbers can't hold to 2 comings. Really this is just semantics when it comes to the the comings of Christ. Since 1 Thes calls the Rapture a coming, I personally don't have a problem with 2 comings. If you want to call them 2 phases, that's fine with me.
The problem with Pretribism is two-fold, in my opinion.

1) It is based on Imminency Doctrine, which sees Christ's Coming as coming "at any time" throughout history. It excludes any preceding prophecy of Christ's Coming, whereas Postribbers see only a relatively-short period of time as being "unknown in duration" prior to his Return.

Knowing the "day and the hour" is different from knowing the era or even the year. It is true we are not to be overly focused on *when* various prophecies are to take place in history, ie the "times and the seasons." But when the time actually arrives for various endtimes prophecies to be fulfilled, we are to actually take note of them and to expect them, as opposed to the "children of darkness" who will be overtaken as by a thief in the night.

2) Pretribism is based on a separation of *years* between the Rapture of the Church and Christ's Return in glory. This leaves the saints mentioned in the Revelation as being persecuted by the Beast in limbo, and divides "Tribulation Saints" from "PreTribulation Saints," as if the Pretribulation Saints are more noble for qualifying for an escape from this Tribulation.

The opposite is actually taught in the Revelation, which heaps praise upon Tribulation Saints. It teaches that Christ is coming back to reward those who prevail over the Beast, endowing them with both the "1st Resurrection" and rule on earth.
 
No, that may be true of some Postribbers, but certainly not all. I personally see Christ's Coming and the "Rapture" of the Church as simultaneous.
What I wanted to point out is that the two comings have two different physical locations. One is in the air, and the other is on the earth, regardless of how much time separates them, even if no time separates them. I didn't know that some Posttribbers see two comings. I have not run across one who does.
 
What I wanted to point out is that the two comings have two different physical locations. One is in the air, and the other is on the earth, regardless of how much time separates them, even if no time separates them. I didn't know that some Posttribbers see two comings. I have not run across one who does.
No, I agree with you. Postribbers do not see 2 Comings, though they may see the one Coming in 2 phases, as you suggest. For example, Pre-Wrathers see this kind of separation between the Rapture and the Coming.

Thanks for the explanation. There are indeed 2 distinct aspects to this, no matter what position you hold to. There is heaven, and there is earth. Heaven is where, I believe, the transformation into immortality takes place. Earth is where Christ's Kingdom is established. We must both be Premillennialists? :)
 
We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21 Jesus descends down from heaven with His army of the host (angels) of heaven as while remaining in the air He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him. He will destroy the beast and false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire, Rev 19:15, 16. The remnant in Rev 19:21 are the world leaders of every nation on the earth that have followed after the beast that rules their government. The remnant will be slain by the very words Jesus speaks of their damnation as the fowls will be filled with their flesh and at that time Satan will be chained and bound so he can not interfere with the ungodly people that are still alive on earth that become the footstool of Christ. Then the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ and He shall reign for ever and the saints will begin to rule over the nations here on earth, Rev 11:15; 5:10; 20:1-3; Matthew 5:5.

Rev 20:7-10 Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after he is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14:1, 2; Luke 21:20 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.

(IMO 1000 years is a figurative number, not a literal number. It is figurative like the numbering in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.)

John 5:28, 29; Rev 20:11-15, now comes the Great White throne judgment as the books are opened with one of them being the Lamb's book of life where all the saints of God have their names written as they have part of the first resurrection of eternal life on such the second death hath no power, Rev 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:54-57. The other book is opened being the book of damnation where the enemies of God that were killed while trying to destroy the camp of the saints are now joined with those enemies of Christ that were also raised from their graves and are reserved, 2 Peter 2:9, as now since they were condemned and judged will be cast into the lake of fire. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. While the saints are with Jesus the earth will be renewed and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven, Rev 21.

Matthew 24:22 these days are shortened for a time that only God holds back or extends to allow His purpose for the last one to repent and turn back to Him before Christ returns, Rev 19, as God alone knows their name. Only God can shorten days like He did with Hezekiah as He caused the sundial to go backwards ten degrees, Isaiah 38:8, which was possibly five hours and again in Joshua 10:12-14 God extended the daylight for Joshua to defeat the Amorites.

Christ returns on the last day at the seventh trumpet and on that day His Bride being the collective body of believers through faith in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption will be caught up to Him. Both asleep in their grave and those who are alive at His coming will then be kept safe on that day while Christ fights the final battle casting the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and slaying all those nations (people) who come out to fight against Him.
(John 5:25-30; 6:40; Ephesians 1:3-14;1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19; Zechariah 14:1-6; Luke 21:20-22)
 
We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21 Jesus descends down from heaven with His army of the host (angels) of heaven as while remaining in the air He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him. He will destroy the beast and false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire, Rev 19:15, 16. The remnant in Rev 19:21 are the world leaders of every nation on the earth that have followed after the beast that rules their government. The remnant will be slain by the very words Jesus speaks of their damnation as the fowls will be filled with their flesh and at that time Satan will be chained and bound so he can not interfere with the ungodly people that are still alive on earth that become the footstool of Christ. Then the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ and He shall reign for ever and the saints will begin to rule over the nations here on earth, Rev 11:15; 5:10; 20:1-3; Matthew 5:5.

Rev 20:7-10 Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after he is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14:1, 2; Luke 21:20 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.

(IMO 1000 years is a figurative number, not a literal number. It is figurative like the numbering in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.)

John 5:28, 29; Rev 20:11-15, now comes the Great White throne judgment as the books are opened with one of them being the Lamb's book of life where all the saints of God have their names written as they have part of the first resurrection of eternal life on such the second death hath no power, Rev 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:54-57. The other book is opened being the book of damnation where the enemies of God that were killed while trying to destroy the camp of the saints are now joined with those enemies of Christ that were also raised from their graves and are reserved, 2 Peter 2:9, as now since they were condemned and judged will be cast into the lake of fire. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. While the saints are with Jesus the earth will be renewed and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven, Rev 21.

Matthew 24:22 these days are shortened for a time that only God holds back or extends to allow His purpose for the last one to repent and turn back to Him before Christ returns, Rev 19, as God alone knows their name. Only God can shorten days like He did with Hezekiah as He caused the sundial to go backwards ten degrees, Isaiah 38:8, which was possibly five hours and again in Joshua 10:12-14 God extended the daylight for Joshua to defeat the Amorites.

Christ returns on the last day at the seventh trumpet and on that day His Bride being the collective body of believers through faith in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption will be caught up to Him. Both asleep in their grave and those who are alive at His coming will then be kept safe on that day while Christ fights the final battle casting the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and slaying all those nations (people) who come out to fight against Him.
(John 5:25-30; 6:40; Ephesians 1:3-14;1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19; Zechariah 14:1-6; Luke 21:20-22)
Thanks for sharing your views. Your views seem a little different from most, but mine are too.
 
It should always be stated that all the pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib positions all have a Rapture. The issue of course is the timing of it. The post-trib sees a Rapture where believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is coming number 1. Next, the Lord comes to the earth. This is coming number 2. No matter what position one holds regarding the 70th week of Dan, the Rapture is a separate coming, even if by a nano second. he meets man at two different places.

Pre-tribbers hold that the rapture is phase 1 of the Lord's coming in the air. Phase 2 is the second coming to earth. However, I don't see any reason why the pre-tribbers can't hold to 2 comings. Really this is just semantics when it comes to the the comings of Christ. Since 1 Thes calls the Rapture a coming, I personally don't have a problem with 2 comings. If you want to call them 2 phases, that's fine with me.

There is only 1 coming of the Lord; The second coming of Christ.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection and rapture occur at the second coming of Christ, which is called the Day of the LORD; the Day of Christ.

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2

again

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
 
It should always be stated that all the pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib positions all have a Rapture. The issue of course is the timing of it. The post-trib sees a Rapture where believers are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. This is coming number 1. Next, the Lord comes to the earth. This is coming number 2. No matter what position one holds regarding the 70th week of Dan, the Rapture is a separate coming, even if by a nano second. he meets man at two different places.

Pre-tribbers hold that the rapture is phase 1 of the Lord's coming in the air. Phase 2 is the second coming to earth. However, I don't see any reason why the pre-tribbers can't hold to 2 comings. Really this is just semantics when it comes to the the comings of Christ. Since 1 Thes calls the Rapture a coming, I personally don't have a problem with 2 comings. If you want to call them 2 phases, that's fine with me.
Only post trib I've heard of Is one coming.The Lord comes from the heaven to the earth.That is one coming .

The saints are gathered to him as he is coming to Jerusalem.
 
Back
Top