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The Berean

Hello, I am Berean.
I attend Seoul Sungrak Church. (www.sungrakberea.org)
This church practices Berean Movement.

I share some of confession of our church.
* We believe in the Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
* We believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten God who came from the bosom of the Father and was manifested to the world.
* We believe in the sealing and guidance of the Holy Spirit and his works at the proclamation of God’s word and prayers offered in faith.
* We believe that man, who was made in God’s image according to His perfect and eternal plan, became a sinner due to the Devil’s deception but justified by faith in Jesus Christ.
 
Hi Suna, your last statement here is a bit confusing.
Could you reword it to speak more simply to me.
Thanks.
 
Hello Rollo Tamasi, does the last statement mean 'We believe that man, ...in Jesus Christ'?

God created human for His purpose (as a channel for Jesus Christ coming into this world). (Genesis 1:26)
However, Adam disobeyed God's commandment by eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
The devil deceived Eve and she gave the fruit to Adam as you know. From that time, they(including all human belong to Adam) became sinners.
Jesus died on the cross even though He is blameless. Through His death, we are set free from sin.
By confessing Jesus is my savior, our status changed from the sinner to righteous one.

I am not a fluent English speaker, please understand this.
If you have any further question, please let me know.
 
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Suna Ihm said:
Hello Rollo Tamasi, does the last statement mean 'We believe that man, ...in Jesus Christ'?

God created human for His purpose (as a channel for Jesus Christ coming into this world). (Genesis 1:26)
However, Adam disobeyed God's commandment by eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
The devil deceived Eve and she gave the fruit to Adam as you know. From that time, they(including all human belong to Adam) became sinners.
Jesus died on the cross even though He is blameless. Through His death, we are set free from sin.
By confessing Jesus is my savior, our status changed from the sinner to righteous one.

I am not a fluent English speaker, please understand this.
If you have any further question, please let me know.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
I understand.
You said it better.
I agree with you.
Amen.
 
Suna Ihm said:
Hello Rollo Tamasi, does the last statement mean 'We believe that man, ...in Jesus Christ'?

God created human for His purpose (as a channel for Jesus Christ coming into this world). (Genesis 1:26)
However, Adam disobeyed God's commandment by eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
The devil deceived Eve and she gave the fruit to Adam as you know. From that time, they(including all human belong to Adam) became sinners.
Jesus died on the cross even though He is blameless. Through His death, we are set free from sin.
By confessing Jesus is my savior, our status changed from the sinner to righteous one.

I am not a fluent English speaker, please understand this.
If you have any further question, please let me know.
Click to expand...
You write quite well in English, very understandable.
Welcome to CF.net. Very happy that you have decided to join us. God Bless.
 
Suna Ihm said:
became a sinner due to the Devil’s deception
Click to expand...
Eve was deceived, not the man(Adam)
1 Tim 2:4~~New American Standard Bible
And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Man became a sinner because of one mans sin. He ate the fruit and was not deceived by the devil. Adam knew full well what he was doing. Satan had not deceived him. He willingly chose his wife over God and ate the fruit. Adam knew the consequences that His wife was going to face, and He willingly chose to go with her instead of staying in the Garden with God.

Rom 5:19~~New American Standard Bible
For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

1 Cor 15:22~~New American Standard Bible
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

 
Deborah13 said:
What scripture supports your conclusion?
Click to expand...
That he wasn't deceived.

Eve thought and believed~Genesis 3:4~~New American Standard Bible
The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

Adam knew and believed~~ Genesis 2:17~~New American Standard Bible
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Adam knew in the original language of that verse that there were 2 deaths involved. And He knew and believed that His wife was going to face the consequences of eating that fruit. He chose to go with her.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Adam knew in the original language of that verse that there were 2 deaths involved. And He knew and believed that His wife was going to face the consequences of eating that fruit. He chose to go with her.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't see from those two verses that there is two deaths involved. Neither do I see that Adam knew how Eve would be punished other than she would die.
But he saw when she ate the fruit, she didn't drop dead and now she had more knowledge than he did.
 
Deborah13 said:
Sorry, I don't see from those two verses that there is two deaths involved. Neither do I see that Adam knew how Eve would be punished other than she would die.
But he saw when she ate the fruit, she didn't drop dead and now she had more knowledge than he did.
Click to expand...
Then He would of been deceived. Adam~~oh, God was wrong, she didn't die.
As to more knowledge~~ I believe you are correct, in that he saw that. And he wanted some of it.

As to 2 deaths. Its in the original language.
NASB Lexicon Gen 2:17
NASB © Hebrew Transliteration Strong's Definition Origin

but from the tree וּמֵעֵ֗ץ u·me·'etz 6086 tree, trees, wood from an unused word

of the knowledge הַדַּ֙עַת֙ had·da·'at 1847 knowledge from yada

of good טֹ֣וב to·vv 2896b a good thing, benefit, welfare from tob

and evil וָרָ֔ע va·ra, 7451b evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity from the same asroa

you shall not eat, תֹאכַ֖ל to·chal 398 to eat a prim. root

for in the day בְּיֹ֛ום be·yo·vm 3117 day a prim. root

that you eat אֲכָלְךָ֥ a·cha·le·cha 398 to eat a prim. root

from it you will surely מֹ֥ות mo·vt 4191 to die a prim. root

die." תָּמֽוּת׃ ta·mut. 4191 to die a prim. root

I know we don't get all the details. But based on Gods character and nature He taught Adam and the woman the consequences that they would face. He didn't just cross His fingers and hope they did well. They were perfect humans with an intellect that would surpass all of ours.

It is like their marriage~~~We don't get the details, but we can make a pretty good guess that God taught them His rules for their marriage.
 
gr8grace3 said:
I know we don't get all the details. But based on Gods character and nature He taught Adam and the woman the consequences that they would face. He didn't just cross His fingers and hope they did well. They were perfect humans with an intellect that would surpass all of ours.

It is like their marriage~~~We don't get the details, but we can make a pretty good guess that God taught them His rules for their marriage.
Click to expand...
Yes, guess work and assumptions.
We can know that Adam was not deceived and willingly disobeyed God.
We know that Eve before Adam ate had knowledge that Adam did have.
We know that Adam blamed Eve and God for his disobedience.
We know that Eve then blames the serpent.
Gen 3:12 and the man saith, `The woman whom Thou didst place with me--she hath given to me of the tree--and I do eat.'
Gen 3:13 And Jehovah God saith to the woman, `What is this thou hast done?' and the woman saith, `The serpent hath caused me to forget--and I do eat.'

What I see is that if Adam was choosing Eve he wouldn't have eaten. He would have kept himself in a position of righteousness so he could be her mediator and plead her case with God.
Just as Moses plead for the children in the wilderness, as Joesph did for his family, and as the Messiah does for us.
But he didn't, he chose knowledge over God and over Eve.
 
Deborah13 said:
Yes, guess work and assumptions.
We can know that Adam was not deceived and willingly disobeyed God.
We know that Eve before Adam ate had knowledge that Adam did have.
We know that Adam blamed Eve and God for his disobedience.
We know that Eve then blames the serpent.
Gen 3:12 and the man saith, `The woman whom Thou didst place with me--she hath given to me of the tree--and I do eat.'
Gen 3:13 And Jehovah God saith to the woman, `What is this thou hast done?' and the woman saith, `The serpent hath caused me to forget--and I do eat.'

What I see is that if Adam was choosing Eve he wouldn't have eaten. He would have kept himself in a position of righteousness so he could be her mediator and plead her case with God.
Just as Moses plead for the children in the wilderness, as Joesph did for his family, and as the Messiah does for us.
But he didn't, he chose knowledge over God and over Eve.
Click to expand...
He chose His wife.

Gen 3:17~~New American Standard Bible
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened(Obeyed) to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.

Man Chose woman over God. And it is still a struggle for man today.
 
gr8grace3 said:
He chose His wife.

Gen 3:17~~New American Standard Bible
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened(Obeyed) to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.

Man Chose woman over God. And it is still a struggle for man today.
Click to expand...
Yes, he listened to the voice of his wife.
H8085
שׁמע
shâma‛
shaw-mah'
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.): - X attentively, call (gather) together, X carefully, X certainly, consent, consider, be content, declare, X diligently, discern, give ear, (cause to, let, make to) hear (-ken, tell), X indeed, listen, make (a) noise, (be) obedient, obey, perceive, (make a) proclaim (-ation), publish, regard, report, shew (forth), (make a) sound, X surely, tell, understand, whosoever [heareth], witness.

My point was Why did he listen to his wife?
Edit: don't want this to sound like a debate. :) I'll drop it.
 
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Deborah13 said:
Yes, he listened to the voice of his wife.
H8085
שׁמע
shâma‛
shaw-mah'
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.): - X attentively, call (gather) together, X carefully, X certainly, consent, consider, be content, declare, X diligently, discern, give ear, (cause to, let, make to) hear (-ken, tell), X indeed, listen, make (a) noise, (be) obedient, obey, perceive, (make a) proclaim (-ation), publish, regard, report, shew (forth), (make a) sound, X surely, tell, understand, whosoever [heareth], witness.

The point is Why did he listen to his wife?
Please don't tell me because he loved her. If he loved her he would not have blamed her for his disobedience. That is a cowardly kind of love. He wasn't willing to take the blame on himself for his own actions. In fact, he was willing to put her in a more dangerous position than she was already in.
If he did it because he was choosing her, then he was pretty fickle. It didn't take him long to turn on her.
Click to expand...
I am done with it Deb.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
I don't know why you argue this point.
Suna corrected her response in post #4 and you seem to have just ignored that for the sake of argument.
Click to expand...
I wasn't responding to anything Suna said. I agree with what she said.
Unfortunately, I didn't edit my post before grace saw it. I apologize for that!
 
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