[_ Old Earth _] The bible

[Heidi]

Not only has the biblical account of creation conformed to the way society works since the beginning of recorded history, but the way the world was predicted to turn out is also. The sons of Ishmael who are the Muslims were prophesied to live in hostility with their neighbors until Christ returns which has been proven throughout history and is accelerating today.

The biblical account of the beliefs & behavior of unbelievers is also proven through reality. Romans 1:28-32, "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gosspis, slanderers, God-haters, insolent arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil: they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do those very things but also approve of those who practice them."

The above behavior has happened throughout history & is escalating today. So the authors of bible know human nature very well.

Jesus predicted that the world would reject him and 9/10th's of the world has always rejected him. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindi, atheists, Jews, acnostics, satanists, etc. do not believe he is the Son of God. His name is cursed every single day, yet I have never heard anyone curse Buddha or Rhama Krishna becuse cursing them does not produce any satisfaction. But cursing Jesus does. That alone shows that people know he's telling the truth.

In fact, the bible never has been proven wrong nor can it ever be proven wrong becuase it conforms completely to the reality around us. It doesn't contradict how humans & animals mate today because we mate the way we were created to mate! again, the turh is always simple and exists right in front of our eyes, not in our imaginations.

 

[peace4all]

I dont think as many ppl curse budha or gnashe or any other religous figures because those groups of followers do not seem to be full of hate and discrimination.


ATM really only muslims, and christians, are fighting eachother. Budhists arent fighting anyone, they arent killing children, insulting other religions, trying to take rights away from people because of sexual orientation, or religion, or creed.

So no one complains about them.


christians are the bees nest at the front door

muslims are the bees nest at the back

budhists/hindus are the bees nests 100 yards into the woods.

 

[Quath]

Basically, every religion claimss to have prophesy. What usually happens is they either write after the fact and act like it was predicted or they make a lot of predictions and only talk about the ones that can be manipulated into looking true.

Like you suggest that people reject Jesus as proof of the Bible as opposed to the idea that it makes little sense. I could easily make a book about the adventures of Thor and have Thor say "And you will know I am true because people will not believe in me." Does that make him true?

The Bible is full of contradictions... just as much as the Quran is. But Muslims will not admit to their contradictions as you will not admit to yours.

Quath

 

[maranatha_man]

Jesus predicted that the world would reject him and 9/10th's of the world has always rejected him.

Whoa...hang on there....Christianity is currently the world's largest religion. in terms of adherents - a whopping 33 percent of the entire religious world. I'm not seeing the "1/10" or 9/10's figure you're claiming. click this

Muslims, Buddhists, Hindi, atheists, Jews, acnostics, satanists, etc. do not believe he is the Son of God.

For another point, I don't thing "Satanism", atheism, or agnosticism (sp) are considered valid religious faiths, at least not as organized religious bodies.

His name is cursed every single day, yet I have never heard anyone curse Buddha or Rhama Krishna becuse cursing them does not produce any satisfaction. But cursing Jesus does. That alone shows that people know he's telling the truth.

<LOL> Interesting thought, but you may have pulled a major blurb here - you know this "satisfaction" from your own experience?? :P btw - I attended an evangelical Christian HS and know of one of our coaches who "invoked" the name of Jesus quite often!! :

In fact, the bible never has been proven wrong nor can it ever be proven wrong becuase it conforms completely to the reality around us. It doesn't contradict how humans & animals mate today because we mate the way we were created to mate! again, the turh is always simple and exists right in front of our eyes, not in our imaginations.

That's saying quite a mouthful, in fact I'd say a bit TOO MUCH of one.

As an historical document it more reflects the "reality" of 16th- 18th century Europe, and of the Middle Eastern world, some 1600-3000 years ago.

As far as "how humans and animals mate" - say wha?? are you referring to bestial practices??....or where speciifically does the Bible address this???

 

[ThinkerMan]

The biblical account of the beliefs & behavior of unbelievers is also proven through reality. Romans 1:28-32, "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gosspis, slanderers, God-haters, insolent arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil: they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do those very things but also approve of those who practice them."

What a very pleasant thing to say about me. Thanks. I bet your the life of the party at mixers.

Considering all we have done is share a few exchanges in an anonymous online forum, do you honestly presume to claim that I do those things?

Give me one such example from my life that proves that "prophecy" true.

 

[Heidi]

I dont think as many ppl curse budha or gnashe or any other religous figures because those groups of followers do not seem to be full of hate and discrimination.


ATM really only muslims, and christians, are fighting eachother. Budhists arent fighting anyone, they arent killing children, insulting other religions, trying to take rights away from people because of sexual orientation, or religion, or creed.

So no one complains about them.


christians are the bees nest at the front door

muslims are the bees nest at the back

budhists/hindus are the bees nests 100 yards into the woods.

And which of those religious leaders suffered beatings, torture & murder for you? If you think that's hate, then you have a very twisted understanding of love! Yet your response to what Jesus did for you is cursing him, ingratitude and hatred, which is precisely why you need a savior!

 

[peace4all]

I guess Siddhata Gotama was just lucky. He died of old age, didnt get murdered, he just went on and on and on teaching lover and respect.

Does one man really make that much of a diffrence in teh eyes of god?

for arent all men equal in the eyes of god?

 

[Heidi]

I guess Siddhata Gotama was just lucky. He died of old age, didnt get murdered, he just went on and on and on teaching lover and respect.

Does one man really make that much of a diffrence in teh eyes of god?

for arent all men equal in the eyes of god?

But he didn't give up his life for you. Apparently he preached love but was more interested in saving his own skin than he was yours. Which is easier? To say you love someone or to show them you love them? I'd much rather trust a man who would give his life for me than one who cared more about his own life than mine. "By their fruits you will know them." ;-)

 

[Quath]

Why does someone need to die? I would rather a wise person live and teach than just die.

God is powerful enough that He could have forgiven without Jesus dieing. Or if Jesus had to die, He could have let Jesus die of old age.

Quath

 

[reznwerks]

Not only has the biblical account of creation conformed to the way society works since the beginning of recorded history, but the way the world was predicted to turn out is also. The sons of Ishmael who are the Muslims were prophesied to live in hostility with their neighbors until Christ returns which has been proven throughout history and is accelerating today.
On the contrary if you look, it is Christians that are at odds with their neighbors. They are not only at odds with their neighbors they are at odds within themselves. They can't agree on anything it seems. Christians don't like the Jews, (they tolerate them) don't like Muslims, don't like the Buddhists or Hindus etc etc etc and the main reason is that they believe they are right.

The biblical account of the beliefs & behavior of unbelievers is also proven through reality. Romans 1:28-32, "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.

They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gosspis, slanderers, God-haters, insolent arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil: they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do those very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Every society that ever existed can make claim to this and many churchs have the same problems. You are painting your reality with a broad brush indeed.

The above behavior has happened throughout history & is escalating today. So the authors of bible know human nature very well.

By what barometer are you measuring your claim. You heard it said and now are repeating it.

Jesus predicted that the world would reject him and 9/10th's of the world has always rejected him. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindi, atheists, Jews, acnostics, satanists, etc. do not believe he is the Son of God. His name is cursed every single day, yet I have never heard anyone curse Buddha or Rhama Krishna becuse cursing them does not produce any satisfaction. But cursing Jesus does. That alone shows that people know he's telling the truth.
Few people curse those other because no one except Christians stick their nose in other peoples culture telling them that they are wrong and lost. Who wouldn't be offended? Jesus wrote nothing down so we don't know if Jesus ever lived let alone made any predictions.

In fact, the bible never has been proven wrong nor can it ever be proven wrong becuase it conforms completely to the reality around us.
The bible has been shown to be filled with countless errors and anyone who denies it has his (her) head in the sand. It does not conform itself to reality around us otherwise miracles would be common place.

It doesn't contradict how humans & animals mate today because we mate the way we were created to mate! again, the turh is always simple and exists right in front of our eyes, not in our imaginations.
No one ever said it contradicted procreation.The truth is there and it doesn't require faith to accept it.

 

[reznwerks]

beatings

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And which of those religious leaders suffered beatings, torture & murder for you? If you think that's hate, then you have a very twisted understanding of love! Yet your response to what Jesus did for you is cursing him, ingratitude and hatred, which is precisely why you need a savior!

Can you please explain how enduring some beatings helped all mankind? Can you please tell my how dying on a cross somehow helps save anyone? Can you please tell me WHO demanded the payment of Jesus dying on the cross and to WHOM was the payment made? Satan didn't demand it so the only other logical choice would be God. So God had to kill himself to appease himself so he would not have to roast us his loving creation in everlasting hell. Does that really make sense to you?

 

[peace4all]

I guess Siddhata Gotama was just lucky. He died of old age, didnt get murdered, he just went on and on and on teaching lover and respect.

Does one man really make that much of a diffrence in teh eyes of god?

for arent all men equal in the eyes of god?

But he didn't give up his life for you. Apparently he preached love but was more interested in saving his own skin than he was yours. Which is easier? To say you love someone or to show them you love them? I'd much rather trust a man who would give his life for me than one who cared more about his own life than mine. "By their fruits you will know them." ;-)

no one had a reason to kill him. Other cultures are sometimes more accepting of people.

If jesus was such a great person, do you not think that people would have fought for his life? fought against rome for him?

I mean, a ton of americans would sacrifice themsleves for GW, so why didnt the christians of the time try to save jesus?

 

[Heidi]

The biblical account of the beliefs & behavior of unbelievers is also proven through reality. Romans 1:28-32, "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gosspis, slanderers, God-haters, insolent arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil: they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do those very things but also approve of those who practice them."

What a very pleasant thing to say about me. Thanks. I bet your the life of the party at mixers.

Considering all we have done is share a few exchanges in an anonymous online forum, do you honestly presume to claim that I do those things?

Give me one such example from my life that proves that "prophecy" true.

Actually, because of the sin of pride, each person is the last person to think he does anything wrong! Even serial killer, Aileen Warnos thought she was a good person.

Yet Jesus, who was the most perfect man whoever lived, when addressed by the rich man as "Good sir" said; "Why do you call me good?" No one is good but God alone." He also said, "He who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Your post proves that you boast because you don't think you're guilty of any envy, boasting, deceit, God-hating, arrogance, etc. You also approve of homosexuality, & premarital sex, do you not? Therefore, your own words have proven that you are arrogant, baostful, & approve of others who practice sexual immorailty. Anyone who denies he sins is boastful, deceitful, & God-hating, is he not? You have thus proven Romans true.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Actually, because of the sin of pride, each person is the last person to think he does anything wrong! Even serial killer, Aileen Warnos thought she was a good person.

Then how do you know you are good? Talk about the ultimate in subjective morality!

I certainly didn't claim I don't perform some of those acts. I only claimed that you have no idea which ones of those I committed. Murder? Envy? Deceit? By which ones do I "prove" Romans.

Paul's laundry lists of shortcomings (or outright illegal acts) is such an expansive list it's impossible for anyone not to qualify. Certainly non-Christians don't have monopoly power over those actions.

Looking at that list of "sins", do you think that better descibes Christian America, or Tibetan Buddhists?

Yet Jesus, who was the most perfect man whoever lived, when addressed by the rich man as "Good sir" said; "Why do you call me good?" No one is good but God alone." He also said, "He who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Then quite bragging about being right. Your making Jesus mad.

And if no one is good, then why all this fighting over what is good and what is bad? You are just as "not good" as I am "not good".

Your post proves that you boast because you don't think you're guilty of any envy, boasting, deceit, God-hating, arrogance, etc.

I never stated that. I only stated you have no right to claim that I am all those things without knowing me. Certainly I am not perfect. As you said above, neither are you...so what's the big deal?

We all suck, apparently.

You also approve of homosexuality, & premarital sex, do you not? Therefore, your own words have proven that you are arrogant, baostful, & approve of others who practice sexual immorailty.

I neither approve or disapprove of others sexual moralities (at least with respect to those you listed above). It is none of my business.

My only concern with others sexualities is that it is none of your business either.

Anyone who denies he sins is boastful, deceitful, & God-hating, is he not? You have thus proven Romans true.

Let's analyze this logic.. (Though as I explained above I did not personally deny some of those shortcomings.)

Everyone sins. But those who deny sinning somehow "sin more".

But no one is good anyway. So whether you sin a little or sin a lot, no one is ever deserving of heaven anyway.

So what's with all this accusing and name-calling and insinuations. We're all just horrible little humans anyway, right?

 

[Heidi]

Actually, because of the sin of pride, each person is the last person to think he does anything wrong! Even serial killer, Aileen Warnos thought she was a good person.

Then how do you know you are good? Talk about the ultimate in subjective morality!

I certainly didn't claim I don't perform some of those acts. I only claimed that you have no idea which ones of those I committed. Murder? Envy? Deceit? By which ones do I "prove" Romans.

Paul's laundry lists of shortcomings (or outright illegal acts) is such an expansive list it's impossible for anyone not to qualify. Certainly non-Christians don't have monopoly power over those actions.

Looking at that list of "sins", do you think that better descibes Christian America, or Tibetan Buddhists?

[quote:dcebf]Yet Jesus, who was the most perfect man whoever lived, when addressed by the rich man as "Good sir" said; "Why do you call me good?" No one is good but God alone." He also said, "He who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Then quite bragging about being right. Your making Jesus mad.

And if no one is good, then why all this fighting over what is good and what is bad? You are just as "not good" as I am "not good".

Your post proves that you boast because you don't think you're guilty of any envy, boasting, deceit, God-hating, arrogance, etc.

I never stated that. I only stated you have no right to claim that I am all those things without knowing me. Certainly I am not perfect. As you said above, neither are you...so what's the big deal?

We all suck, apparently.

You also approve of homosexuality, & premarital sex, do you not? Therefore, your own words have proven that you are arrogant, baostful, & approve of others who practice sexual immorailty.

I neither approve or disapprove of others sexual moralities (at least with respect to those you listed above). It is none of my business.

My only concern with others sexualities is that it is none of your business either.

Anyone who denies he sins is boastful, deceitful, & God-hating, is he not? You have thus proven Romans true.

Let's analyze this logic.. (Though as I explained above I did not personally deny some of those shortcomings.)

Everyone sins. But those who deny sinning somehow "sin more".

But no one is good anyway. So whether you sin a little or sin a lot, no one is ever deserving of heaven anyway.

So what's with all this accusing and name-calling and insinuations. We're all just horrible little humans anyway, right?[/quote:dcebf]

The only thing good in any of us comes from God. Without God, we are filled with envy, greed, lust, gluttony, anger, sloth, & pride. Everything we do is to honor ourselves. Even if we give to the poor, we call attention to it. Or if we "love" our spouses, we stop loving them the minute they say or do something to offend us.

Sorry, but human nature is selfish. To say it isn't is boasting. But God showed us he loves us anyway by sacrificing his son for us. No greater love can be shown for a human being than for someone to lay down his life for us. Now we can spit in his face for it, say we don't need his love because we are loveable on our own, which is narcissism, or we can be accept his sacrifice & be overwhelmingly grateful and thankful for what he did for us which only breeds love for God & our fellow human beings which doesn't depend on how they treat us.

The response that accepting Christ's death creates in us is the same one that we have if someone rescues us from drowing or from a burning fire. But the big probelm is, because of the sin of pride & deceit, most human beings don't know they're drowing until it's too late. They put their trust in money, success, status, prestige, power, etc. to give them the illusion they are wonderful. But even Solomon who had everything anyone on the earth could ever want, power, vast wealth, wisdom, knowledge, thousands of women, the praises of men, said it was all meaningless because it could be gone tomorrow. Now that is widsom.

Only God glorifes us and decides who is good and who is not. None of us is qualified to judge that on our own.

 

[reznwerks]

huh

[

The only thing good in any of us comes from God.
THis is a sad unfortunate attitude toward life.

Without God, we are filled with envy, greed, lust, gluttony, anger, sloth, & pride.
No were not. Society works quite well as it is. It's only the very small minority that gets the attention.

Everything we do is to honor ourselves. Even if we give to the poor, we call attention to it.
Atheists don't and are quite generous. They do good deeds because its the right thing to do. Theists are more likely to call attention to doing good because they expect a reward in the hereafter for doing such things.

Or if we "love" our spouses, we stop loving them the minute they say or do something to offend us.
How simple and immature do you think people are? Do you want people to check their emotions at the door while they are alive. We have emotions and you can't block them. God gave them or so you say. Just because we are angry with loved ones does not mean we stop loving them. Are you out of school yet? Your idea of life is a make believe scenario that doesn't exist. When we get angry we act like God does and punish those who offend us. If its good enough for him it should be good enough for us.

Sorry, but human nature is selfish.
God said he was a jealous God. Is that to be admired?

To say it isn't is boasting. But God showed us he loves us anyway by sacrificing his son for us.
You never answered my question on how does this solve anything?

No greater love can be shown for a human being than for someone to lay down his life for us. Now we can spit in his face for it, say we don't need his love because we are loveable on our own, which is narcissism, or we can be accept his sacrifice & be overwhelmingly grateful and thankful for what he did for us which only breeds love for God & our fellow human beings which doesn't depend on how they treat us.
What sacrafice? Jesus supposedly spent only three hours on a cross where most of those spent several days in agony. Jesus supposedly died for three days and now lives forever in heaven. Thats a choice many would gladly die for (pardon the pun]. Who would'nt give up three days of death for life eternal?

The response that accepting Christ's death creates in us is the same one that we have if someone rescues us from drowing or from a burning fire. But the big probelm is, because of the sin of pride & deceit, most human beings don't know they're drowing until it's too late. They put their trust in money, success, status, prestige, power, etc. to give them the illusion they are wonderful.
No, the illusion is that we are told if we just believe we are going to live forever in la la land.

But even Solomon who had everything anyone on the earth could ever want, power, vast wealth, wisdom, knowledge, thousands of women, the praises of men, said it was all meaningless because it could be gone tomorrow. Now that is widsom.
No he recognized the futility of it all. Imagining that one could live forever for just believing doesn't solve anything. One more point, doesn't the idea of believing that you are going to live forever fall under the pretense of having it all which would be a sin?
Only God glorifes us and decides who is good and who is not. None of us is qualified to judge that on our own.
If we don't or can't tell who is good or who is not then how are we to decided what we should do?

 

[Heidi]

What's sad is that serial killers think they're good people! People who think they're good, rezenwerks, justify killing, sex with man woman or beast, boasting, arrogance, deceit, envy, greed, gluttony and every evil under the sun. That makes Romans 1:18-81 true. And the fact that you approve of people who do this also makes Romans 1:18-31 true. All I can say is I hope you don't have children because of the kinds of things you teach them. You haven't a clue what right and wrong is.

 

[reznwerks]

where

What's sad is that serial killers think they're good people! People who think they're good, rezenwerks, justify killing, sex with man woman or beast, boasting, arrogance, deceit, envy, greed, gluttony and every evil under the sun. That makes Romans 1:18-81 true. And the fact that you approve of people who do this also makes Romans 1:18-31 true. All I can say is I hope you don't have children because of the kinds of things you teach them. You haven't a clue what right and wrong is.

Where do you get this stuff. No society on the earth ever advocated killing or justified it anymore than the bible does, no society on the earth condones homosexuality. Some may tolerate more than others.As for boasting , arrogance deciet envy greed and gluttony I have seen plenty from Christians themselves and even more so. I haven't approved of anything or anyone. I am more like the Christian you want me to be in that I have witheld judgement. You on the other hand have wrongly accused me without any evidence and as for my children I am very proud of them as all three can and do stand on their own feet. Like the poem "Footprints in the Sand" when my children saw only their footprints in the sand and asked God why , God replied "it was then that I saw that you were an adult and I was very proud and now you could walk on your own."

 

[pearlz]

What's sad is that serial killers think they're good people! People who think they're good, rezenwerks, justify killing, sex with man woman or beast, boasting, arrogance, deceit, envy, greed, gluttony and every evil under the sun. That makes Romans 1:18-81 true. And the fact that you approve of people who do this also makes Romans 1:18-31 true. All I can say is I hope you don't have children because of the kinds of things you teach them. You haven't a clue what right and wrong is.

Isnt there something in the bible about not judging other people? it seems to me you have completly ignored that. How can you sit there and say someting like this to another person? Since you can, i will to. I hope you dont have children and teach them the hate you spew. Because hate is all i see comming from you. What happened to "love thy neighbor" Shouldnt you leave the judging to your "God" and just try to live the best life you can? This is exactly why people dont like a good portion of the christians out there. They sit and quote the bible, but completly ignore it as it might pertain to themselves.

It seems you live by the "Do as i say, not as i do" rule.

 

[Free]

Is there anyone that can tell me what all this has to do with Creation/Evolution? If this continues on a topic that has nothing to do with this particular forum, it will get locked.