The Changing Role of satan [lowercase]

[TonyChanYT]

Was evil present in the Garden of Eden?

Well, not exactly; however, the idea of a tester/tempter was first introduced in Genesis 3:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

That was the first sign that there was a creature who questioned the word of God.

This beginning of an evil force was later portrayed by the satan (the accuser, the adversary) against the upright Job. God allowed the satan to test him, Job 1:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God [ben elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [the satan H7854] also came among them.

Using a definite article means that satan was not a proper personal name. With the definite article, the satan sounds like a job title. Further, the same H7854-satan appears in (ESV) 1 Samuel 29:

4 But the commanders of the Philistines were angry with him [David]. And the commanders of the Philistines said to him, “Send the man back, that he may return to the place to which you have assigned him. He shall not go down with us to battle, lest in the battle he become an adversary [satan H7854] to us. For how could this fellow reconcile himself to his lord? Would it not be with the heads of the men here?

Here satan refers to David. Elsewhere, the concept of satan was tied closely to God himself in the Balaam incident in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English Numbers 22:

22 And the wrath of God was provoked against him because he went, and the Angel of LORD JEHOVAH stood in the road to be Satan an adversary to him, and he rode on his donkey and his two young men with him.

Later, Satan appeared in 1 Chronicle 21:

1 Satan [satan, LXX G1228 διάβολος] rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

There is a parallel account in 2 Samuel 24:

1 Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”

The LORD used satan to accomplish his will against David!

Later still, the good prophet Micaiah saw the Lord permitting a spirit to lie in the mouths of Ahab's bad prophets to deceive Ahab. Micaiah said in 1 Kings 22:

23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”

By the time of the exile, something had changed fundamentally in Daniel 10:

12 Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me,

This was angel against angel. It was an open rebellion. This satan/adversary opposition force opposed not only humans,

because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14 Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

There were angelic forces for and against Daniel. These were two distinct wills. Only one was for God.

In the NT, the satan concept became the person Satan, the devil, Matthew 4:

1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Demons became rampant, Luke 8:

30 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” “Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him.

Satan lost his position in heaven, Luke 10:

17 The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” 18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

After Jesus' Cross, Satan who accused us day and night before our God was thrown down to the earth (Rev 12:9-11). Jesus now is our Advocate-Paraclete before God (1 John 2:1, Romans 8:34). Satan no longer had access to God.

Hebrews 2:

14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he [Jesus] too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil

Over time in human history, we can see that the role of satan gets more and more independent from God. Even the concept of testing/tempting has evolved. In the OT, God tested/tempted Abraham. After Satan went rogue, God tested people, and Satan tempted people. Right now, Satan is the ruler of this world.

Paul used Satan in 1 Timothy 1:

20b Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I [Paul] have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Satan is the dragon in Revelation 20:

1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

In the end, Revelation 20:

10 the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The word שָׂטָן (H7854 satan) appears only 27 times. It could be used as a noun, an adjective, or a verb. There is a more common word צָר (H6862 tsar) that often is translated as adversary. H6862 appears 111 times.

See also Was Satan evil in Job 1:7?.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Was evil present in the Garden of Eden?

Well, not exactly; however, the idea of a tester/tempter was first introduced in Genesis 3:

Lucifer guardant of the glory of Creation was to protect the Spirit of God from mankind claiming there no God just because God was not seen. They were looking to the temporal and not the eternal faith the unseen things of God

Lucifer takes the most beautiful and glorious creature called serpent. Put his words in the mouth of the creature as the father of lies And denied prophecy from God "thou shall not or you will really die" . In efect saying lust after my beauty surely you will not die "look at me and live forever"

The father of false prophets, false apostles The first murder of the father of lies Cain heard the gospel by Abel , Cain invited Abel the prophet out to the corn field plowed him under. Out of sight out of mind as in who believes in God not seen???

Satan as the god of this world maintains his title "Thief of the glory of God" . . . our unseen Father

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Why are you obsessed with Satan's name TonyChanYT? Satan was kicked out of his place in heaven. How much more independent could he become? Please less Satan more Jesus.
Keep walking everybody.
May God,
Taz

 

[TonyChanYT]

Lucifer takes the most beautiful and glorious creature called serpent.

Lucifer = Satan?​

Isaiah 14:

4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has come to an end! How his fury has ended!
12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

O Morning Star,
הֵילֵ֣ל (hê·lêl)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 1966: The morning-star
The morning star refers to the king of Babylon. Some interpret it as a metaphor for Satan.
King James Bible:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Merriam-Webster:

Lucifer has been in the English language for a very long time, and has not solely carried the meaning of "Satan." The word comes from a Latin root—lucifer, in Latin, means "light-bearing"—and has also been used by poets to refer to Venus, the morning star.

Lucifer = Satan?
Very loosely speaking yes. Strictly and scholarly speaking, no. The word is not even Hebrew. It is Latin. I prefer to stick to the wording of the Scripture. "Lucifer" is not Scriptural. The Hebrew word for Satan (H7854) does not even appear anywhere in the books of Isaiah.

 

[hawkman]

Lucifer = Satan?
Very loosely speaking yes. Strictly and scholarly speaking, no.

Just say no . Mr. G Lee reading for you too .

THE NAME LUCIFER HAS NEVER BELONGED TO SATAN

 

[hawkman]

How much more independent could he become?

He could quit living in the basement and get his own pad .

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Lucifer = Satan?​

Isaiah 14:

O Morning Star,
הֵילֵ֣ל (hê·lêl)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 1966: The morning-star
The morning star refers to the king of Babylon. Some interpret it as a metaphor for Satan.
King James Bible:

Merriam-Webster:

Lucifer = Satan?
Very loosely speaking yes. Strictly and scholarly speaking, no. The word is not even Hebrew. It is Latin. I prefer to stick to the wording of the Scripture. "Lucifer" is not Scriptural. The Hebrew word for Satan (H7854) does not even appear anywhere in the books of Isaiah.

Morning star called Lucifer

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations

The true Lucifer the direct flection of the glory of God. Bright and not just morning

Revelation 22:16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Morning star called Lucifer

That's KJV. The word is not even Hebrew or Greek. It is Latin. See https://christianforums.net/threads/lucifer-satan.100453/

 

[Mr. G Lee]

That's KJV. The word is not even Hebrew or Greek. It is Latin. See https://christianforums.net/threads/lucifer-satan.100453/

Latin words have meaning. "light-bringing",

Lucifer the spirit of false prophecy reflects the name of the morning star . Jesus, the bright and morning star .

Satan called Lucifer has many titles attributed to the father of lies another is Beelzebub the lord of the flies. as the author a lying spirit he called the lord lord of the flies. It's his MO turn things upside down cause confusion

 

[TonyChanYT]

Satan called Lucifer

Who called Satan Lucifer? Do you have any scholarly references to support your claim?

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Why would anyone purposely follow Satan? He has got to be the most stupid individual in all of creation. Think about this. You are the number 4 person in all the universe. There's the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and you. And that was not enough for Satan. He wanted Jesus' spot. It was a spot he could never attain as he was created. Jesus always was, is, and always will be. Satan cannot be this. So in addition to stupid, he is delusional.

Tony Chan, you might like this. I found it awhile back and thought it was a fine explanation. Unfortunately, I didn't copy who wrote it so I cannot give it the proper credit it deserves.

"Lucifer is the Latin name for the morning appearances of the planet Venus. It corresponds to the Greek names Phosphorus Φωσφόρος, "light-bringer", and Eosphorus Ἑωσφόρος, "dawn-bringer". The entity's Latin name was subsequently absorbed into Christianity as a name for the devil. Modern scholarship generally translates the term in the relevant Bible passage (Isaiah 14:12), where the Greek Septuagint reads ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωὶ, as "morning star" or "shining one" rather than as a proper noun, Lucifer, as found in the Latin Vulgate. The word "Lucifer" appears in The Second Epistle of Peter (2 Peter 1:19) in the Latin Vulgate to refer to Jesus. The word "Lucifer" is also used in the Latin version of Exsultet, the Easter proclamation.

As a name for the Devil in Christian theology, the more common meaning in English, "Lucifer" is the rendering of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל, hêlēl, (pronunciation: hay-lale)[1] in Isaiah[2] given in the King James Version of the Bible. The translators of this version took the word from the Latin Vulgate,[3] which translated הֵילֵל by the Latin word lucifer (uncapitalized),[4][5] meaning "the morning star", "the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[6]

As a name for the planet in its morning aspect, "Lucifer" (Light-Bringer) is a proper noun and is capitalized in English. In Greco-Roman civilization, it was often personified and considered a god[7] and in some versions considered a son of Aurora (the Dawn).[8] A similar name used by the Roman poet Catullus for the planet in its evening aspect is "Noctifer" (Night-Bringer).[9]"Quote from an unknown source

And that is more than I ever wanted to know about Satan.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Who called Satan Lucifer? Do you have any scholarly references to support your claim?

It's what God named the morning star.

Just what is your complaint of use the word Lucifer as one who was to guard the glory of creation and took it upon his own self as the god of this world?

Does it interfere with you understanding in the way it is used? If so how?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Why would anyone purposely follow Satan? He has got to be the most stupid individual in all of creation. Think about this. You are the number 4 person in all the universe. There's the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and you. And that was not enough for Satan. He wanted Jesus' spot. It was a spot he could never attain as he was created. Jesus always was, is, and always will be. Satan cannot be this. So in addition to stupid, he is delusional.

I would think he is not stupid. Even Jesus the Son of man our brother in the lord dared not rebuke him .The Father in heaven gave word to his prophet apostle Jesus words to rebuke the devil. Satan father of lies Lucifer. He has many titles.

Jesus the true reflection of Creator did not usurp the light of Christ . He is the bright and morning star..

 

[jasonc]

Latin words have meaning. "light-bringing",

Lucifer the spirit of false prophecy reflects the name of the morning star . Jesus, the bright and morning star .

Satan called Lucifer has many titles attributed to the father of lies another is Beelzebub the lord of the flies. as the author a lying spirit he called the lord lord of the flies. It's his MO turn things upside down cause confusion

My church is called morning star .

I am the bright and morning star ,that's about Jesus .rev 22:16

 

[Mr. G Lee]

My church is called morning star .

I am the bright and morning star ,that's about Jesus .rev 22:16

It as children of light can be called morning stars as long as they do not take away from Jesus the "bright" and "morning star? Directly reflecting the glory of the Holy Father. Christ the founder of the church beginning with Abel the first prophet that was martyred.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[jasonc]

It as children of light can be called morning stars as long as they do not take away from Jesus the "bright" and "morning star? Directly reflecting the glory of the Holy Father. Christ the founder of the church beginning with Abel the first prophet that was martyred.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Im gonna disagree hardly .my pastor fluent in Hebrew preached on that and mentioned the morning star .it's bright and morning star. Not a bright morning star.he broke that down with the problem of err with Lucifer .

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Im gonna disagree hardly .my pastor fluent in Hebrew preached on that and mentioned the morning star .it's bright and morning star. Not a bright morning star.he broke that down with the problem of err with Lucifer .

Just what is his goal? To make Satan a source of "bright" light ?

I am not concerned with pastors that speak fluent Hebrew. It was the Hebrews that denied Christ

Bright morning star or bright and morning. Six of one half dozen of another . The key is "bright". no brightestnes comes from the dark (lucifer) the false light

 

[jasonc]

Just what is his goal? To make Satan a source of "bright" light ?

I am not concerned with pastors that speak fluent Hebrew. It was the Hebrews that denied Christ

Bright morning star or bright and morning. Six of one half dozen of another . The key is "bright". no brightestnes comes from the dark (lucifer) the false light

I'm not concerned as I know my elders.

Irc we don't say we are the bright morning star because we arent Jesus .

Esv and KJV differ on that the connection and isnt said in the ESV .it's i am the bright morning star versus the I am the bright and morning star .

 

[jasonc]

I'm not concerned as I know my elders.

Irc we don't say we are the bright morning star because we arent Jesus .

Esv and KJV differ on that the connection and isnt said in the ESV .it's i am the bright morning star versus the I am the bright and morning star .

I clarified this.

The pastor said that in Hebrew the word morning star and dawn of the day is a reference to Venus .thus also is in context Satan .since the KJV uses Latin the word Lucifer is a cognate. The words lion and morning star are used both for Satan and Jesus .Jesus can be like them but the description of Isiah of the morning star is Satan .

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Your pastor has it correct jasonc.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Do you think Peter knew a little bit about the Old Testament?

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus uses "the bright and morning star" to define Himself.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz