Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Christmas Tree Debate, They Have Lost Their Minds

Lewis

Member
The secular world has gone, even more crazy.

Alternate name for Christmas tree upsets some groups
Saturday, December 3, 2005
Mark Bliss ~ Southeast Missourian

Local ministers say Christians, not stores, should spread the Gospel.

Some national retailers sell Christmas trees as "holiday" trees. That has created a firestorm of protest from some national Christian groups, including the American Family Association.

But several local ministers say it's the job of Christians rather than retail stores to spread the Gospel.

Lowe's, a home-improvement retailer, says it will stop using the "holiday" moniker and once again use the word "Christmas" in connection with the trees. The retailer's change of heart came in response to public criticism.

Cape Girardeau businesswoman Carolyn Kempf sees the trend of renaming Christmas trees as "holiday trees" as another example of political correctness.

"As a person of faith, I find it horrifying that it is no longer, after 2,000 years, proper to have Christ in Christmas," she said.

Kempf, who operates a travel agency, said she will boycott stores that advertise "holiday" rather than Christmas trees.

She views the "holiday" debate as part of a larger moral issue. "Our society is moving toward trying not to have a moral standard," she said.

The Rev. Ron Watts, pastor of La Croix United Methodist Church in Cape Girardeau, said the nation has become more secular.

"We shouldn't be surprised when things like this happen," he said.

Dennis Hastert, speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, this week advised federal officials to refer to the decorated tree on the Capitol lawn as a Christmas tree rather than a holiday tree as it's been called in recent years.

In Boston, city hall refers to the city's official Christmas tree as a holiday tree. But the city's mayor told reporters that the Canadian spruce tree from Nova Scotia is a Christmas tree.

The decorated trees are Christmas trees, Watts said. Avoiding use of the word "Christmas" misrepresents the holiday both to Christians and to the nation, he said.

Whether "Christmas" is used or not, Watts said the focus shouldn't be on how stores advertise merchandise.

"In the end, our job as Christians is to live up the name of Christ. It's not the job of the stores," he said.

Jim Matthews, pastor of the Cape County Cowboy Church in Fruitland, said the decisions of retailers to sell "holiday trees" demonstrates how far the nation has drifted away from the Christian beliefs prevalent when the country was founded.

But he won't blame the government or business for the erosion of faith. He said churches need to do a better job of promoting Christian values.

"We need to be looking at our house more than their house," he said.

The Rev. Scott Moon of Grace United Methodist Church in Cape Girardeau said the issue is part of the whole commercialization of Christmas.

Stores, he said, aren't attempting to celebrate the holiday. "They're attempting to increase their profit margin," Moon said.

He refuses to get up caught up in the word debate.

"I wish that the energy people are spending on the holiday tree could be used to alleviate poverty and violence and bring peace," Moon said. "We need to pay attention to what really is important."
 
Ifigured out the whole holiday tree thing, you wrap the tree in kente clothe, top it with a menorah, slap an islamic flag on it, and then put buddha under it and call it a holiday tree
 
She views the "holiday" debate as part of a larger moral issue. "Our society is moving toward trying not to have a moral standard," she said.

so basically, the whole purpose for this is the fact that christians believe anyone NOT christian, to have no morals.

I agree that instead of selling jesus, and selling christianity, it should be given. When christians which to teach it, it should not be something you pay for.
 
peace4all said:
She views the "holiday" debate as part of a larger moral issue. "Our society is moving toward trying not to have a moral standard," she said.

so basically, the whole purpose for this is the fact that christians believe anyone NOT christian, to have no morals.

I agree that instead of selling jesus, and selling christianity, it should be given. When christians which to teach it, it should not be something you pay for.

rather than "not having a moral standard", society is simply moving towards a more almalgamated set of moral standards from a large pool of ideas, religions, cultures and the like.

there has never been one, single moral standard in the united states. there are (and have always been) too many people of different ideas and walks of life for that to be the case.
 
peace4all said:
She views the "holiday" debate as part of a larger moral issue. "Our society is moving toward trying not to have a moral standard," she said.

so basically, the whole purpose for this is the fact that christians believe anyone NOT christian, to have no morals.

I agree that instead of selling jesus, and selling christianity, it should be given. When christians which to teach it, it should not be something you pay for.
peace4all,

As a Christian who loves Jesus and proclaims the only true God, I would appreciate it that when you post on this Christian forum that you capitalize the name Jesus, Christ, Christianity, and God.

Please and thank you. :)
 
itoldyounoalready said:
Ifigured out the whole holiday tree thing, you wrap the tree in kente clothe, top it with a menorah, slap an islamic flag on it, and then put buddha under it and call it a holiday tree

Is that similar to this idea? :-D

happy_everything.jpg
 
The word "holiday" means:

holy-day


So even that is a Christian reference. 8-)
 
this one

the world get's it but the church is clueless. imagine that!
 
Lewis W said:
The secular world has gone, even more crazy.

Alternate name for Christmas tree upsets some groups
Saturday, December 3, 2005
Mark Bliss ~ Southeast Missourian

Local ministers say Christians, not stores, should spread the Gospel.

Some national retailers sell Christmas trees as "holiday" trees. That has created a firestorm of protest from some national Christian groups, including the American Family Association.

But several local ministers say it's the job of Christians rather than retail stores to spread the Gospel.

Lowe's, a home-improvement retailer, says it will stop using the "holiday" moniker and once again use the word "Christmas" in connection with the trees. The retailer's change of heart came in response to public criticism.

Cape Girardeau businesswoman Carolyn Kempf sees the trend of renaming Christmas trees as "holiday trees" as another example of political correctness.

"As a person of faith, I find it horrifying that it is no longer, after 2,000 years, proper to have Christ in Christmas," she said.

Kempf, who operates a travel agency, said she will boycott stores that advertise "holiday" rather than Christmas trees.

She views the "holiday" debate as part of a larger moral issue. "Our society is moving toward trying not to have a moral standard," she said.

The Rev. Ron Watts, pastor of La Croix United Methodist Church in Cape Girardeau, said the nation has become more secular.

"We shouldn't be surprised when things like this happen," he said.

Dennis Hastert, speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, this week advised federal officials to refer to the decorated tree on the Capitol lawn as a Christmas tree rather than a holiday tree as it's been called in recent years.

In Boston, city hall refers to the city's official Christmas tree as a holiday tree. But the city's mayor told reporters that the Canadian spruce tree from Nova Scotia is a Christmas tree.

The decorated trees are Christmas trees, Watts said. Avoiding use of the word "Christmas" misrepresents the holiday both to Christians and to the nation, he said.

Whether "Christmas" is used or not, Watts said the focus shouldn't be on how stores advertise merchandise.

"In the end, our job as Christians is to live up the name of Christ. It's not the job of the stores," he said.

Jim Matthews, pastor of the Cape County Cowboy Church in Fruitland, said the decisions of retailers to sell "holiday trees" demonstrates how far the nation has drifted away from the Christian beliefs prevalent when the country was founded.

But he won't blame the government or business for the erosion of faith. He said churches need to do a better job of promoting Christian values.

"We need to be looking at our house more than their house," he said.

The Rev. Scott Moon of Grace United Methodist Church in Cape Girardeau said the issue is part of the whole commercialization of Christmas.

Stores, he said, aren't attempting to celebrate the holiday. "They're attempting to increase their profit margin," Moon said.

He refuses to get up caught up in the word debate.

"I wish that the energy people are spending on the holiday tree could be used to alleviate poverty and violence and bring peace," Moon said. "We need to pay attention to what really is important."

The problem is that most people want the benefits of Christmas without giving Christ the credit. So if just churches and Christians spread the gospel, then they should be the only ones who celebrate Christmas. :)
 
The problem is that most people want the benefits of Christmas without giving Christ the credit. So if just churches and Christians spread the gospel, then they should be the only ones who celebrate Christmas.
You know something' you are right.
 
christianity is not the only religion to have a "holy day" nor is it the only religion to have a holy day, near the time of "happy holidays"

Saying "happy holidays" recognizes the fact that, in America, you may be jewish, hindu, muslim, christian, or even an atheist, and still get respected.


If everyone said "happy kwanza" and that was it, wouldn't you be a little upset? Someone giving a favorable approach to a religion besides your own?

place yourself in another mans shoes
 
My take on Christmas, if anyones cares to read (in response to another poster):

wavy said:
another poster said:
So what if it was. At least we are CELEBRATING Christ, (like all other days but this one just specially for him)

Birth. Christ wasn't concieved through man.

If we look to the Word/Scriptures, since all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof and instruction in righteousness, we find that Yahweh doesn't work this way.

It can be proven in so many ways how Yahweh despises the way of the gentiles. He warns his people not to learn their ways.

It's like sacrificing a pig on Yahweh's altar (if the Temple was still up). You couldn't have given Yahweh a pig and said, "at least I'm giving you something, Yahweh".

No way, no how.

"A certain woman had a husband with a favorite mug. This mug was decorated with gold and gems. Every night, the woman would bring the cup to her husband and he would fill his moneyed mug with alchohol; wine and beer, and he would become drunk and resort to rash, sinful conduct. After years of this behavior, the man died from a bad liver and sickness. The woman, liking the decor and worth of the mug, kept his mug for herself. The woman went her way and found another man who took her to marry her. This man was a righteous man, who always loved and treated his wife with kindness. For a gift one day for that kindness, she presented the precious vessel to him, and told her new husband that it was her first husband's cup and that he would sometimes drink out of it to become drunk; but she hoped he would still like it. The husband became angry, threw the cup out into the garbage, and sent his wife away from his presence, saying "What, silly woman, would make you believe I would put my lips near to this cup?" This he said by reason of the mug of another husband who lived a sinful life. The woman was put to shame."

This was a parable I made up just now. And now for a little of the Hebraic principle of kal va'chomer (meaning "light and heavy"; Messiah used this method of teaching and so did many others) to end this story and bring it to the point:

If an earthly, righteous husband wouldn't accept the gift of his wife that once belonged to an old sinner/husband, no matter how pleasant, rich, or decorative it seemed, how much more would Yahweh, who is in heaven, reject a gift from his wife that was the tool of sinners in honor to false gods, no matter how pleasant and "for the children" or "just for family time" it seemed?
 
So whats this that I hear, about the White House now calling their Christmas tree a holiday tree, now ? Bush should not let this go down, because he is a saved president.
 
Back
Top