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[_ Old Earth _] The creation

Heidi

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I was just watching a program on the science channel where scientists now claim that the stars were created in one day just like the bibles says. :-)

And yesterday I saw a program on the discovery channel that talked about solar storms and how they could wipe out New York in a few hours which also confirms what Revelations says about fire coming down from the sky. So what people used to believe was impossible is now considered possible. :-)
 
Amazing how that fits our Sun 10.30 talk..

Our youth pastor, Gustaf - (a real 'Tefal' highbrow - which is also how many have described me!) :wink: - spoke @ Psalm 66

Psalm 66 (New International Version)


Psalm 66

For the director of music. A song. A psalm.

1 Shout with joy to God, all the earth!
2 Sing the glory of his name;
make his praise glorious!

3 Say to God, "How awesome are your deeds!
So great is your power
that your enemies cringe before you.

4 All the earth bows down to you;
they sing praise to you,
they sing praise to your name."

Selah (= stop & think @ it)

5 Come and see what God has done,
how awesome his works in man's behalf!

6 He turned the sea into dry land,
they passed through the waters on footâ€â€
come, let us rejoice in him.

7 He rules forever by his power,
his eyes watch the nationsâ€â€
let not the rebellious rise up against him.

Selah (= stop & think @ it)

8 Praise our God, O peoples,
let the sound of his praise be heard;

9 he has preserved our lives
and kept our feet from slipping.

10 For you, O God, tested us;
you refined us like silver.

11 You brought us into prison
and laid burdens on our backs.

12 You let men ride over our heads;
we went through fire and water,
but you brought us to a place of abundance.

13 I will come to your temple with burnt offerings
and fulfill my vows to you-

14 vows my lips promised and my mouth spoke
when I was in trouble.

15 I will sacrifice fat animals to you
and an offering of rams;
I will offer bulls and goats.
Selah

16 Come and listen, all you who fear God;
let me tell you what he has done for me.

17 I cried out to him with my mouth;
his praise was on my tongue.

18 If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;

19 but God has surely listened
and heard my voice in prayer.

20 Praise be to God,
who has not rejected my prayer
or withheld his love from me!


& Romans 12:1-2

Romans 12:1-2 (New International Version)

Romans 12
Living Sacrifices


1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to Godâ€â€this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will isâ€â€his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Footnotes:


He began with a live tableaux, showing how, on the small scale of Earth being 24 yds from the sun, if the sun were a football on that scale, Earth is just a handbreadth

"God holds the universe in the palm of His hand"

Light goes @ 186 miles per second, so a plane would take 21 yrs to hit the sun

If you like Pink Floyd's "Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun" - Echoes album - 'Off The Wall' show tours UK soon

As, I'm sure, do the Oz Pink Floyd

The week I was on the front page of Southport Visiter, I taped Revelation 6-8 over Echoes - with preaching explanation

Every second of sound FX fit perfectly

I put Stairway To Heaven on the same tape, with preaching in its long instrumentals - just as I'd always done it in many karaokes, 1989-2002

I was off sick with the hoarsest rasp ever & many folk said I sounded @ 5 times more macho than Robert Plant

Readers may know that Operation Mobilisation founder, George Verwer, was told @ 40 yrs ago, by his GP, never to preach again

George said, as Apostle Paul did, "Woe is me if I preach not the gospel!"

I never heard him preach without a painful rasp

& he's still preaching

Regular hearers know I often preach with a painful rasp

Why?

"The love of Christ constrains us"

The most common quip in this city of comedians is, "Can't you get a better job?"

I always say that I've never been on anyone's payroll in my 41 yrs of creative evangelism: I do it for love, not money

& there is NO better job than winning precious souls into the kingdom of God thru preaching the glorious good news gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ

Train online @ http://www.gospelcom.net

Anyone hear Dr Morris Cerullo & guest talk @ Passover blessings & ofering Jewish mezuzahs to put on your door?

I believe that a Christian's windows - even if U R 'only a kid' - with only a bedroom window to call your own - are to shine out the spiritual light of the Word of God to passers by

My windows face south, for maximum sunshine, & many folk pass nearby on their way to the popular Strand shopping centre, just 10 mimnutes walk away & to work at Pacific Rd/Globe Rd factories just 1 minute's walk away

As soon as The Nutty Prof Richard Dorky Dawkins' pathetic TV docus were announced, I displayed God's Word, using a different colour for each letter & adding glitter

I display those ID/creation websites below

& http://www.jpost.com

& "Have faith in God"

& "Earth is the Lord's"

& "Jesus saves"


& artistic photos for sheer beauty, joy & celebration

& an invite to Bootle Christian Centre, Stanley Rd (North Park) Roundabout, Sun 10.30 & Wed 7.30 revival meetings

The display looks spectacular in sunshine!

Teens photo & transmit it on their mobys

The lady in the flat next door is deaf & is not bothered by my Christian freeview TV channels 760-771 (Sky)

My windows open to superb acoustics, front & back

The sound level, in the street, where the local kids play footie, etc, is quietly comfortable but discernable

The Bible calls it a privilege to 'share in the fellowship of the sufferings of Christ'

The Greek word translated as fellowsip - koinonia - is the word for a business partnership, as God wants us to mean business about building up & edifying the Body of Christ in 'the faith once for all delivered to the saints'

That often involves 'contending for the faith'

Which is why, on my way here, Bootle & Liverpool & Kensington centres echoed to, "Read all about it: the lies of Ravin' Rotten Rowan, Arch-Cant-er-bury-the-truth-at-all-costs - exposed on http://www.ChristianForums.net - enjoy the fishing, as there's something VERY fishy about that Arch-Druid, Ravin' Rotten Rowan, Arch-Cant-er-bury-the-truth-at-all-costs @ http://www.ChristianForums.net

Circulate it round your networks & let's do it to it!

See http://www.creationism.org & http://www.discovery.org/csc & http://www.AnswersInGenesis.org

All 3 have comprehensive menus of articles @ creationism, Intelligent Design & how to pooper-scoop evo-loopy-poop, aka Darwin drivel

Back with links to my last Christianity & Science thread...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=21498

& to General Talk Forum's "This is terrible!" thread...

I just have time to urge you to google media & circulate them with the clear evidence of atheist brainwashing to prepare the way for the worst global tyrant ever: the Beast/Antichrist of 2 Thessalonians 2, Revelation 13, Rev 17-18 Daniel 7 & Dan 11 etc

Ravin' Rotten Rowan - Arch-Cant-er-bury-the-truth-at-all-costs is front page of http://www.guardian.co.uk

Try http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/default.stm

Ask 'em if they are neo-fascists or will publish the truth, OK?

Academia falsely claims freedom of thought yet censors the clear truth of ID

Ian

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 687#252687
 
Heidi said:
I was just watching a program on the science channel where scientists now claim that the stars were created in one day just like the bibles says. :-)

Either those scientists were high, or you're talking about the process by which the Big Bang distributed all the matter that would become the stars in a day (really, a fraction of a second). The stars themselves still required eons to coalesce into forms that allowed for nuclear fusion.

And yesterday I saw a program on the discovery channel that talked about solar storms and how they could wipe out New York in a few hours which also confirms what Revelations says about fire coming down from the sky. So what people used to believe was impossible is now considered possible. :-)

Umm... no. I would imagine you're talking about the solar storm episode of Discovery's Perfect Disaster series. It couldn't "wipe out New York", it would knock out communications equipment on a global scale. No fire is involved - it's actually caused by an intense outburst of radiation that causes satellites and other such equipment to fail. Apparently you weren't paying too much attention to the show. Better luck next time.

See, this is why so many people look down on Christians. When people make exaggerations or lies that are so easily refuted, it just makes us look bad.
 
ArtGuy said:
Heidi said:
I was just watching a program on the science channel where scientists now claim that the stars were created in one day just like the bibles says. :-)

Either those scientists were high, or you're talking about the process by which the Big Bang distributed all the matter that would become the stars in a day (really, a fraction of a second). The stars themselves still required eons to coalesce into forms that allowed for nuclear fusion.

And yesterday I saw a program on the discovery channel that talked about solar storms and how they could wipe out New York in a few hours which also confirms what Revelations says about fire coming down from the sky. So what people used to believe was impossible is now considered possible. :-)

Umm... no. I would imagine you're talking about the solar storm episode of Discovery's Perfect Disaster series. It couldn't "wipe out New York", it would knock out communications equipment on a global scale. No fire is involved - it's actually caused by an intense outburst of radiation that causes satellites and other such equipment to fail. Apparently you weren't paying too much attention to the show. Better luck next time.

See, this is why so many people look down on Christians. When people make exaggerations or lies that are so easily refuted, it just makes us look bad.

No, that program said that the solar storm would affect electricity but it would also cause fires. A solar storm does indeed send bits of fire and radiation to the earth.

"Us" Christians? :o It doesn't appear that you believe in the biblical account of creation at all, friend, nor do you appareantly believe Jesus when he said that we have one teacher and that is the Christ. So believing imsperfect, fallible human beings is a waste of time because they can't possibly even begin to understand how the stars, sun, moon, earth, and all living things were created even though some of them have the arrogance to think they do. Only God knows the whole truth because he created everything. So it would be wise to listen only to Him. ;-)
 
Heidi said:
A solar storm does indeed send bits of fire and radiation to the earth.

No. No, it doesn't. At all. "Bits of fire" cannot travel through the empty vacuum of space. I'm not sure how you could possibly walk away with that conclusion, but you're fantastically wrong.

"Us" Christians? :o It doesn't appear that you believe in the biblical account of creation at all, friend, nor do you appareantly believe Jesus when he said that we have one teacher and that is the Christ. So believing imsperfect, fallible human beings is a waste of time because they can't possibly even begin to understand how the stars, sun, moon, earth, and all living things were created even though some of them have the arrogance to think they do. Only God knows the whole truth because he created everything. So it would be wise to listen only to Him. ;-)

Spare me the self-righteous, condescending clap-trap. You clearly don't see me as your "friend", and beautifying your insults with happy little emoticons doesn't make everything all nicey-nicey. I don't much care if you act rudely towards me - it's pretty much par for the course from you when dealing with anyone who disagrees with you - but trying to pretend that it's all in good fun is grating.
 
You must admit, ArtGuy, you don't believe the Bible.

You believe man over God.
 
Khristeeanos said:
You must admit, ArtGuy, you don't believe the Bible.

You believe man over God.

Do you really not see the difference between doubting God and doubting an interpretation of God's word put forth by a falliable man? I don't doubt the Bible any more than you do. I just doubt the interpretation that you claim is correct.
 
ArtGuy said:
Heidi said:
A solar storm does indeed send bits of fire and radiation to the earth.

No. No, it doesn't. At all. "Bits of fire" cannot travel through the empty vacuum of space. I'm not sure how you could possibly walk away with that conclusion, but you're fantastically wrong.

"Us" Christians? :o It doesn't appear that you believe in the biblical account of creation at all, friend, nor do you appareantly believe Jesus when he said that we have one teacher and that is the Christ. So believing imsperfect, fallible human beings is a waste of time because they can't possibly even begin to understand how the stars, sun, moon, earth, and all living things were created even though some of them have the arrogance to think they do. Only God knows the whole truth because he created everything. So it would be wise to listen only to Him. ;-)

Spare me the self-righteous, condescending clap-trap. You clearly don't see me as your "friend", and beautifying your insults with happy little emoticons doesn't make everything all nicey-nicey. I don't much care if you act rudely towards me - it's pretty much par for the course from you when dealing with anyone who disagrees with you - but trying to pretend that it's all in good fun is grating.

So would you prefer hate instead? Sorry, but I don't see you as an enemy just because we disagree. But if you want to see me as an enemy and treat me with hatred that is your perrogative. The Holy Spirit in me won't let me operate that way. :-)
 
Heidi said:
The Holy Spirit in me won't let me operate that way. :-)
She's a Borg!!!!

At any rate, if any fallibility is going on here it is Heidi misinterpreting something pop. sci.
I find this the most likely explanation or theory.
 
SyntaxVorlon said:
Heidi said:
The Holy Spirit in me won't let me operate that way. :-)
She's a Borg!!!!

At any rate, if any fallibility is going on here it is Heidi misinterpreting something pop. sci.
I find this the most likely explanation or theory.

So I take it you don't believe Jesus when he tells us to love our enemies. If not, I'm sorry for you. It's the easiest thing in the world to love those who love us. As Jesus says, "even sinners do that." :-)
 
Heidi said:
SyntaxVorlon said:
Heidi said:
The Holy Spirit in me won't let me operate that way. :-)
She's a Borg!!!!

At any rate, if any fallibility is going on here it is Heidi misinterpreting something pop. sci.
I find this the most likely explanation or theory.

So I take it you don't believe Jesus when he tells us to love our enemies. If not, I'm sorry for you. It's the easiest thing in the world to love those who love us. As Jesus says, "even sinners do that." :-)

(not repsonding for Syntax Vorlon but this is my own response)

That totaly depends on my 'enemy' if my 'enemy' is simply someone who I disagree with on philosophical grounds and does not pose any threat to me than I think that still respecting them is a good idea. However if my enemy, in addition to disagreeing with me wants to outlaw my way of thinking, blow me up or consider me to be less than human I tend to get a bit touchy. But mabey thats just me...

*edit* I realized it was syntax vorlon not art guy you responded to so I fixed my wording above to reflect this
 
Heidi said:
So would you prefer hate instead? Sorry, but I don't see you as an enemy just because we disagree. But if you want to see me as an enemy and treat me with hatred that is your perrogative. The Holy Spirit in me won't let me operate that way. :-)

I would prefer outright hostility to the poorly executed veil of faux-niceness you try to smother your posts in. I don't much care for phony people, sorry, friend.
 
ArtGuy said:
Khristeeanos said:
You must admit, ArtGuy, you don't believe the Bible.

You believe man over God.

Do you really not see the difference between doubting God and doubting an interpretation of God's word put forth by a falliable man? I don't doubt the Bible any more than you do. I just doubt the interpretation that you claim is correct.

It has nothing to do with personal intrepretation.

When the Bible says God created in six days and then rested on the seventh day, He did it for a reason - to give us a six day work week and one day of rest.

Read the 10 Commandments (extended version):

Exodus 20:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

13 "You shall not murder.

14 "You shall not commit adultery.

15 "You shall not steal.

16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."


God is clearly trying to tell us something here, note the bolded and underlined part above.

God is clearly telling us that He created everything out of nothing in six literal days, the same days that existed when Moses got the 10 Commandments on the mountain.

And Jesus stated that the beginning of creation there were two people created.

Matthew 19:4-5
4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?


There is no way to intrepret this except for a literal man and woman. This is not up for intrepretation, it is the clear and plain teaching of the Bible.

Why do you insist on taking the teachings of man and trying to redefine the Bible with them?


Why not just accept God's Word instead of redefining terms that have been so clear for thousands of years?
 
Khristeeanos said:
There is no way to intrepret this except for a literal man and woman. This is not up for intrepretation, it is the clear and plain teaching of the Bible.

Why do you insist on taking the teachings of man and trying to redefine the Bible with them?


Why not just accept God's Word instead of redefining terms that have been so clear for thousands of years?

Because that interpretation is at great odds with everything that our God-given senses tell us. I fail to see why God would design the Earth in six days and then make it seem as if it's billions of years old.

Oh, wait, I forget - the entirety of modern physics is a colossal secular conspiracy orchestrated by an elite group of scientists seeking to overthrow Christianity. My mistake.

In all seriousness, though, pretend for a second that we somehow received incontravertible evidence from God himself that the six-day interpretation was mistaken. In what ways would that alter the central tenets of Christianity? Would it mean that mankind had not sinned and condemned himself to live in an imperfect world? No. Would it mean Jesus had not died on the cross to save us? No. Would it mean that the Bible was the infalliable word of God? No. What, then, would be different? And if nothing of import would change, then why the crusade to demonize and alienate those who disagree?

I mean, some people here think that Jesus and God are the same person, some think they're distinct entities. That seems at least as relevant, but there's far less mud being slung back and forth between those groups as there is between those who think Adam and Eve rode to work on struthiomimuses and those who think they had to resort to wooly mammoths.
 
ArtGuy,

I have noticed a trend in our conversations.

I constantly quote the Bible, and you constantly quote fallible men's assumptions.

Have you noticed the same thing? :o
 
Khristeeanos said:
ArtGuy,

I have noticed a trend in our conversations.

I constantly quote the Bible, and you constantly quote fallible men's assumptions.

Have you noticed the same thing? :o

Yes, yes I have. I could give you my interpretation of this phenomenon, but I highly doubt you would much like it.
 
ArtGuy said:
Khristeeanos said:
ArtGuy,

I have noticed a trend in our conversations.

I constantly quote the Bible, and you constantly quote fallible men's assumptions.

Have you noticed the same thing? :o

Yes, yes I have. I could give you my interpretation of this phenomenon, but I highly doubt you would much like it.

Well, feel free to start a new thread. I will read it when I get time. :)

My lovely bride is going through a very rough time right now and I am spending the majority of my time with her to give her comfort and support (and a dry shoulder which doesn't stay dry :( )
 
Khristeeanos said:
My lovely bride is going through a very rough time right now and I am spending the majority of my time with her to give her comfort and support (and a dry shoulder which doesn't stay dry :( )

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that you two get through it alright, and my prayers will be with you. I know that when something happens to your spouse, it may as well be happening to you - it's rough on everyone.
 
4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?

There is no way to intrepret this except for a literal man and woman. This is not up for intrepretation, it is the clear and plain teaching of the Bible.
Personally i interprete Genesis as an allegory - what is the problem with Jesus referring to a part of that allegory? With "for this reason..." Jesus himself interpretes something into Genesis!
 
My lovely bride is going through a very rough time right now and I am spending the majority of my time with her to give her comfort and support (and a dry shoulder which doesn't stay dry )

I'll hit a knee for you my man. For both of ya'll to be sobbing, things must be

rough.

Much Love

Charlie
 
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