Bible Study the day and the hour

[noblej6]

Hi Forum,

I would like to see an unbiased discussion of this verse.

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

I think everyone, myself included, has generally undersood this to mean the day or hour that Jesus returns or the time of the parousia, or the coming of the son of man, ...but is that really what it is?

In Matthew 24 the verses are like this:

34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Why do we insist that the statement of the day and the hour refer back to verse 30 about the coming when a statement has just been made about heaven and earth passing away.

I'll leave out bits of the sentences here to show what I mean about what THAT day could refer to.

35Heaven and earth will pass away, (and) no one knows about that day or hour,

Why can't the day and hour be refering to heaven and earth passing away?

Now with my personal bias of understanding back in............

What if the passing away of heaven and earth was really our passing away from it, or our passing in physical death. How would the scripture fit in then?

I have been considering the above meaning for some time but I have not yet found solid arguments for it.

Why do others here feel verse 36 refers back to verse 30?

noble6

 

[wavy]

Interesting. I'll try to take a deeper look into it.

 

[Imagican]

I think that part of your inability to convince yourself of the 'true' meaning of this chapter may have a bit to do with understanding the meaning behind the word 'generation'. It certainly doesn't mean generation as we use the word today. A 'family' generation and a 'time period' generation are different. Look at it as an 'era' of sorts instead of a twenty or thirty year generation of a family line.

I believe that it is therefore self explanatory. Jesus' words, the Word of God, will NOT PASS AWAY, EVER. The earth and the heavens surrounding it will one day be 'no more', yet the Word of God is EVERLASTING. Hence the words that Christ spoke will be the 'truth' for eternity, them being the Word of God.

 

[noblej6]

Hi Imagician,

I think that part of your inability to convince yourself of the 'true' meaning of this chapter may have a bit to do with understanding the meaning behind the word 'generation'.

So the reference to whatever verse is dependant on the meaning of 'generation.' I don't follow well here.

Let's use Matthew's meaning of 'generation' as far as time goes. That would be about 41 years as per Matthew 1:17.

I believe that it is therefore self explanatory. Jesus' words, the Word of God, will NOT PASS AWAY, EVER.

Yes, I can see that.

The earth and the heavens surrounding it will one day be 'no more', yet the Word of God is EVERLASTING. Hence the words that Christ spoke will be the 'truth' for eternity, them being the Word of God.

Yes that is the reference I was getting at. That is referring back to heaven and earth passing away, not to the son of man coming.

noble6

 

[Collier]

Well, I think that verse 37 shows that verse 36 is indeed speaking about the second coming of Christ.

 

[wavy]

i think zechariah 14:5-7 may clear this up.

it seems plausible what you're saying, noble, but i dont know.

 

[noblej6]

Hi wavy,

Zech 14
5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

6 On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttimeâ€â€a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.

You mentioned that this may clear things up.

I must have read this before but it never registered because it actually says that Jesus did know the day of His coming. It says in verse 6 there that it is a day known to the Lord. In verse 5 it says God will come and His Holy ones wih Him. Further along in the chapter it also refers to the destruction of Jerusalem.

Because Jesus says it is known only to the father in the Olivet....I wonder.

Can you think of any more verses connecting here?
noble6

 

[noblej6]

Hi collier,

Well, I think that verse 37 shows that verse 36 is indeed speaking about the second coming of Christ.

Yea, I think you're probably right. It seems to swing our attention that way.

Any other ideas, Collier?

nob;le6

 

[J6o7h8n3]

"35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

Im not sure about the heaven and earth part but as far as his words never passing away, we must first look into what is the word? In John 1:1 it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." So from my understanding, that god is the word and the word is god, the word has been around since the beginning, god has been around since the beginning, the word is god and god is the way the truth and the life. Gods words will never pass away, neither will god. When it says but my words will never pass away, it means what it says, god and his word will never pass away. Somebody correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

 

[noblej6]

Hi j6,

When it says but my words will never pass away, it means what it says, god and his word will never pass away.

Yes, I think that part is totally correct, but what is this absolute truth referring back to? Many of us say it is going back to Jesus not knowing the day of His coming, but is there a chance it could refer to the statement about heaven and eath passing away instead?

noble6

 

[irishrain]

day or hour No but

Mark 13:
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

This earthly dimension, and eventually the 2nd Heavenly dimension shall pass away,
but GOD'S HOLY WORD is forever.

Mark 13:
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

But, no one except GOD will know when the Eternity shall begin.
HE is the only ONE who knows when the exact moment is that this flesh dispensation shall be done, therefore, even though we know that The LORD'S DAY is as a thousand years (earthly dimensional time 2 Per 3:8), we can not calculate the exact moment that the Eternal Heaven/Earth dimension shall begin for us.
GOD resides within The Eternity. When shall we, who remain in HIM, be with HIM again? No man knows, but GOD.

Mark 13:
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Therefore, we must be ready. We must be aware and prepare. We must stay awake!
This word "watch" literally translates to "stay awake".
The words "and pray", according to the Interlinear, were added later by man.

Mark 13:
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Again, GOD speaks in parables and likens HIMSELF unto "a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch."

Have we done the work HE would have us do?
Have we stayed on watch (stayed awake), and done all the things a watchman is to do?

Mark 13:
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

"Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping."

from the Interlinear:
Watch ye therefore! For ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even or at midnight or at the cockcrowing in the morning, lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

Mark 13:
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

---------
We don't know the exact hour. But three and half days after GODs two witnesses die in Jerusalem. Then the 7th trumph sounds and Jesus returns.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.