The divinity of Jesus

[Fredericksteve]

JESUS POWER NOT HIS OWN:

He said in John 5:30.

" My father is greater than I , My father is greater than All and I can of my ownself do nothing .

Why is Jesus promoting his father and lowering his status ?

MATTHEW 28:18
(a) "And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is
GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth."

The power that is given to Jesus belongs to god and he can take it from him and give it to somebody else.

MATTHEW 19:16-I7
One came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing
shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
"And Jesus said unto him, WHY CALLEST THOU ME
GOOD? there is NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT IS GOD

From the above verse , he refuses you to even call him good , how would he ask you to call him god . God is good If Jesus was god , he would say " Well i accept ,what you're telling me "


God used Jesus to give life to the dead

JOHN 11:41-43 "And Jesus lifted up his eyes (towards heaven), and said,
Father, I thank thee that THOU HAST HEARD ME.
"And I know that THOU HEAREST ME ALWAYS: but
because of the people which stand by l said (my supplication
aloud), that THEY MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me.
"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice,
Lazarus, come forth.
"And he that was dead came forth . . ."

Who then gave life back to Lazarus? The answer is "GOD!" For God
heard the prayer of Jesus, as "always!"

If you press a button , the power comes on and the light is switched on and you supply the electricity from the power station . similarly , jesus is praying to god and God hears his prayers and gives back life to Lazarus


And Jesus has no knowledge of the last day

(b) "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the
Father." MARK 13:32

How can he not have the knowledge ?

This brings a conclusion is not like the father in either knowledge or power .So i cant understand what makes Jesus God.

Q . What is God ?
Answer The creators of the heavens and the earth

Where does Jesus say that he created the heavens and the earth , nowwhere .

 

[glorydaz]

You're only looking at Jesus while he was a man living among us.
He was God in the beginning. He's the Word spoken of here.

If you notice the end of this verse speaks of darkness comprehending it not...that means that those who don't come with an open heart, won't get it. There are places in the Word where Jesus says He's God, but like the parables, it can be hard to understand without spiritual discernment. The examples you gave are what Jesus said while He was a man. As a man, He was lower than the Father...he was lower than the angels. He willingly took on human form so he could give man access to God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Fredericksteve]

John 1:1 are John's words and not the words of Jesus. So if you believe that , than I suppose even Moses and Satan are gods as well

2 Corinthians 4:4
"(and the devil is) the god of this world."
"

And in the Old Testament, the Lord said unto Moses, "See, I have made thee a god to Pharoach" (Exodus 7:1).

Theres is a high priest in (Hebrews 7:3 )

"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually

"

Why not worship this high priest Melchizedek instead ? Because Jesus had a mother , he had a beginning of days and he has an end of life as well whereas Melchizedek didnt have that .

You've ignored the fact that Jesus didnt have knowledge of the last day . What has knowledge to do with the forms of Jesus? Knowledge would be the same from the beginning till the end

and you've ignored this point as well
"All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth."

Why should the power be given to him in heaven ,why the word " given' ? If he was god, shouldnt he be saying

"I have the power in heaven but on the earth , the power is given to me , "

Sorry but I just cant see how Jesus can be equal with his father

He willingly took on human form so he could give man access to God.

Can you elaborate a bit more on that. I dont understand why god should come down to earth as Jesus and show man the way .He could just send his message through a normal human being . Isnt that what his appointed prophets of God like Jonah, Moses, Noah,Solomon Abraham has been doing all along and they've done some miracles as well . I suppose those prophets too are God on human form and should be called God-incarnate .

 

[toddm]

You're right to show that Jesus OPERATED as an anointed man of God, but his nature was still fully God. You can't avoid texts like John 1:1-14, John 8:58, Romans 9:5, Colossians 1:15-23, and Hebrews 1.

 

[glorydaz]

John 1:1 are John's words and not the words of Jesus. So if you believe that , than I suppose even Moses and Satan are gods as well

2 Corinthians 4:4
"(and the devil is) the god of this world." [quote:224sebje]
The same word is used for many things. You have to read in context and use your common sense to have any understanding of what the verse is saying. You do understand the difference between false gods and the Almighty God, don't you?

a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
the Godhead, trinity
God the Father, the first person in the trinity
Christ, the second person of the trinity
Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
spoken of the only and true God
refers to the things of God
his counsels, interests, things due to him
whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
God's representative or viceregent
of magistrates and judges

"

And in the Old Testament, the Lord said unto Moses, "See, I have made thee a god to Pharoach" (Exodus 7:1).

Theres is a high priest in (Hebrews 7:3 )

"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually

"

Why not worship this high priest Melchizedek instead ? Because Jesus had a mother , he had a beginning of days and he has an end of life as well whereas Melchizedek didnt have that .

Melchizedek did have an end of life...he died as all men do. Jesus's body died, but He rose to the throne of God, and is the Christ (high priest). So He is both King (over the throne of David) and Priest (after the order of Melchizedek)

You've ignored the fact that Jesus didnt have knowledge of the last day . What has knowledge to do with the forms of Jesus? Knowledge would be the same from the beginning till the end

Jesus had willingly set aside His divine nature. In His human nature, he was not all-knowing. He could not be everywhere at once, either.

and you've ignored this point as well
"All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth."

Why should the power be given to him in heaven ,why the word " given' ? If he was god, shouldnt he be saying

Jesus is referring to His work on the cross as a man.

"I have the power in heaven but on the earth , the power is given to me , "

Sorry but I just cant see how Jesus can be equal with his father

He willingly took on human form so he could give man access to God.

Can you elaborate a bit more on that. I dont understand why god should come down to earth as Jesus and show man the way .He could just send his message through a normal human being . Isnt that what his appointed prophets of God like Jonah, Moses, Noah,Solomon Abraham has been doing all along and they've done some miracles as well . I suppose those prophets too are God on human form and should be called God-incarnate .[/quote:224sebje]

God spoke through the prophets, but the prophets could not do what Jesus did, because Jesus was God, Himself. The prophets could tell about God, but Jesus was the express image of God. He said, if you've seen me you've seen God. God took on human form and lived among us. Then He returned to the throne and was God again. What? You don't think God is capable of doing that?

 

[Lance_Iguana]

God spoke through the prophets, but the prophets could not do what Jesus did, because Jesus was God, Himself. The prophets could tell about God, but Jesus was the express image of God. He said, if you've seen me you've seen God. God took on human form and lived among us. Then He returned to the throne and was God again. What? You don't think God is capable of doing that?

Actually I have to ask why God would do that? The main reason why I ask this is not based on whether or not he cares for us, but based on the fact that God can do anything, be anything, etc.

It just seems like God took the hardest, longest, wierdest way to just deliever a message that could have been easily done by angels. Mainly because the idea that God had to make himself mortal actually makes God look like he is weak.

 

[glorydaz]

God spoke through the prophets, but the prophets could not do what Jesus did, because Jesus was God, Himself. The prophets could tell about God, but Jesus was the express image of God. He said, if you've seen me you've seen God. God took on human form and lived among us. Then He returned to the throne and was God again. What? You don't think God is capable of doing that?

Actually I have to ask why God would do that? The main reason why I ask this is not based on whether or not he cares for us, but based on the fact that God can do anything, be anything, etc.

It just seems like God took the hardest, longest, wierdest way to just deliever a message that could have been easily done by angels. Mainly because the idea that God had to make himself mortal actually makes God look like he is weak.

No, it showed how much He loves us.
It showed He was willing to suffer all the infirmities and trials we do.
Greater love hath no man than that he lay down his life a friend.
He could have sent an angel....what kind of love is that?
A king can send men into battle to die while he sits back and watches...that's not love.
God is love, and He showed us His love so we would know what it is to really.
He desires a loving relationship with man...not a distant one.

 

[Aaron the Tall]

Jesus primary purpose in coming to earth was not to deliver a message (which clearly any prophet could do) but to be a sacrifice of propitiation to restore man to God. The sacrifice had to be a perfect one - something no mere human prophet could provide. Jesus was without sin. No other man before or since has accomplished this - this should tell us that Jesus was more than a mere man.

1 Peter 2:22 says, "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth." 1 John 3:5 says, ". . . And in him is no sin."

Frederick said:

MATTHEW 19:16-I7
One came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing
shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
"And Jesus said unto him, WHY CALLEST THOU ME
GOOD? there is NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT IS GOD

From the above verse , he refuses you to even call him good , how would he ask you to call him god . God is good If Jesus was god , he would say " Well i accept ,what you're telling me "

Knowing that Jesus was without sin, this verse in Matthew is actually proof that Jesus is God. Jesus says that only God is truly good and without sin. Jesus couldn't be without sin if he wasn't God. Do you believe Jesus was good? If not, why not? Was he bad?

Notice too that Jesus doesn't say "only the Father is good." That would certainly have discluded Jesus, but in saying that "only God is good" Jesus was able to include himself. It's like if I said "only people named Aaron have black hair." Since my name is Aaron, I have included myself.

Sure Jesus can be called "Alpha and Omega," "Good Shepherd," "the Life," "the Truth," and "Mighty God," and other titles that are used of Yahweh, but don't call him "good." That crosses the line. Seems a bit silly, eh?

 

[brakelite]

It is true that Jesus was without sin. But the reason He came as human flesh goes deeper than that.
When Adam and Eve sinned, they sinned against God. It was against the law, the government, and the kingdom of God against which they transgressed. They would have ruled the earth as kings thjemselves, but by joining with Satan in his rebellion they gave the soveriegnty of the earth to him. Only One could win that back for man. Only One could redeem man from death. Only One could forgive sin against the law of God. Only One could be the perfect sacrifice that the law required. Only God Himself could atone for the offense committed against Him. Only God Himself could provide forgiveness for man, and regain, in a legal sense, the earth from the rulership of who Jesus called the Prince of this world. But now, the Prince of this world is cast out, and we can be assured that the earth will be soon restored to man's dominion as it was in the beginning. No angel had the authority to do this. Only the Son.

As for Jesus lack of knowledge re the second coming, and His other divine attributes. His attributes He veiled.His omnipotence, His omnipresence, His omniscience, all set aside for the whole time He was upon the earth.In fact, He is now forever a man, so is limited for all eternity to a body of flesh and bones such as we have, so His omnipresence He sacrificed for man. If He had used His own power in any way while on the earth, He could not be our example. We could rightly say, if Jesus used His own divine power to live the life He had, that it is then impossible for us to follow Him. But Jesus lived by faith. Just as we must. If Jesus could live a life free from sin, so can we. The same power that was available to Him is available to us. And this power He has promised.

And the only reason we can trust this promise and experience the reality of it is because Jesus is exactly and precisely Who He claimed to be.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty......11 : Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea....17,18:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death

 

[Aaron the Tall]

He is now forever a man, so is limited for all eternity to a body of flesh and bones such as we have, so His omnipresence He sacrificed for man.

I have wondered if Jesus still maintains any of his human attributes while in heaven. I haven't seen much research on the subject. What Bible verses do you use to support your claims? While Jesus was not omnipresent on earth, it seems He regained it in heaven, as He says "I will be with you always." Verses also talk of "Christ in us." He couldn't be with us always and in us if He wasn't omnipresent.

 

[glorydaz]

He is now forever a man, so is limited for all eternity to a body of flesh and bones such as we have, so His omnipresence He sacrificed for man.

I have wondered if Jesus still maintains any of his human attributes while in heaven. I haven't seen much research on the subject. What Bible verses do you use to support your claims? While Jesus was not omnipresent on earth, it seems He regained it in heaven, as He says "I will be with you always." Verses also talk of "Christ in us." He couldn't be with us always and in us if He wasn't omnipresent.

Christ is not limited to a body of flesh nor is He limited in any way.
He's risen to glory. In His resurrected body He could appear as He wanted, and be where He wanted to be. He has a spiritual body. Read Rev. 1 and see what John saw. God returned Him to glory straightway. Immediately upon ascension.

Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

This speaks of the glorified spiritual body.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

This verse speaks of the "days of his flesh". Those days are gone. Jesus is God...he only came in the flesh...He didn't stay in the flesh. His work is finished.

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[D4Christ]

Can a human beget a fish?
Can a dog beget a cat?

Humans beget other humans....
Dogs beget other dogs....

YHWH (who is God) begets what?
....man?
....animals??
....angles???

YHWH begets God.

Hebrews 1
3 The Son radiates God’s own glory and expresses the very character of God, and he sustains everything by the mighty power of his command. When he had cleansed us from our sins, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God in heaven. …
5 For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus:
“You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.â€
God also said,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son...â€
8 But to the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.
You rule with a scepter of justice.
9 You love justice and hate evil.
Therefore, O God, your God has anointed you,
pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else.â€
10 He also says to the Son,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth
and made the heavens with your hands.

Beget: to procreate or generate (offspring); To father; sire; To cause to exist or occur.

John 1:14

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Father is God. His name is Yahweh. All power belongs to and comes from Him and Him alone. He granted this power to the only one found worthy to handle it...His Son. How else could you transfer the power of God to someone who did not also have the nature of God?

1 Corinthians 15

24 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power. 25 For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. 26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.†(Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,†that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.) 28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

The Son is God. His name is Yahushua (aka, Christ). He comes in the name of
His Father similar to the way human fathers name their sons after them, ie. John David II. The Father's name translated into English means I Am that I Am. His son's name means I Am Savior.

John 1
16 From his abundance we have all received one gracious blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but God’s unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

The Father and His Son have the same nature of God. But the Father is in authority over His Son, whom He sent to us so that we may have a relationship...the relationship with the Son grants us relationship with His Father.

These are two entities, separate but acting in unity with the same mind and purpose. If they were the same then Yahushua would tell us to pray to Him. But he doesn't. We are not to pray to Christ but to His Father...we are to ask for everything acknowledging the Son whom the Father uses to save us.

John 16
23 At that time you won’t need to ask me for anything. I tell you the truth, you will ask the Father directly, and he will grant your request because you use my name. 24 You haven’t done this before. Ask, using my name, and you will receive, and you will have abundant joy.
25 “I have spoken of these matters in figures of speech, but soon I will stop speaking figuratively and will tell you plainly all about the Father. 26 Then you will ask in my name. I’m not saying I will ask the Father on your behalf, 27 for the Father himself loves you dearly because you love me and believe that I came from God. 28 Yes, I came from the Father into the world, and now I will leave the world and return to the Father.â€
29 Then his disciples said, “At last you are speaking plainly and not figuratively. 30 Now we understand that you know everything, and there’s no need to question you. From this we believe that you came from God.â€

If the disciples understood Yahushua to be acting on behalf of his Father who sent Him…why can’t we understand that to say Yahushua is God is not the same thing as calling Him the Father. There is only One Father to whom we pray and who holds all authorityr. There is only One Son who currently holds all authority granted to Him from His Father and who will, at the appropriate time, turn all of that authority back over to His Dad.
Just my 2cents…