The Doctrine of Demons

[Spirit Driven]

I have noticed this part of the forum seems to be about end time signs and what to watch out for.
Well in 1 Timothy 4, the Holy Spirit via the Apostle Paul does also give warning in this regard....

From the Concordant Literal New Testament, 1 Timothy 4

Chapter 4 (CV)
1 Now the spirit is saying explicitly, that in subsequent eras some will be withdrawing from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and the teachings of demons,
2 in the hypocrisy of false expressions, their own conscience having been cauterized;
3 forbidding to marry, abstaining from foods, which God creates to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who believe and realize the truth,
4 seeing that every creature of God is ideal and nothing is to be cast away, being taken with thanksgiving,
5 for it is hallowed through the word of God and pleading.
6 By suggesting these things to the brethren, you should be an ideal servant of Christ Jesus, fostering with the words of faith and of the ideal teaching which you have fully followed.
7 Now profane and old womanish myths refuse, yet exercise yourself in devoutness,
8 for bodily exercise is beneficial for a few things, yet devoutness is beneficial for all, having promise for the life which now is, and that which is impending.
9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.
12 Let no one be despising your youth, but become a model for the believers, in word, in behavior, in love, in faith, in purity.
13 Till I come, give heed to reading, to entreaty, to teaching.
14 Neglect not the gracious gift which is in you, which was given to you through prophecy with the imposition of the hands of the eldership.
15 On these things meditate. In these be, that your progress may be apparent to all.
16 Attend to yourself and to the teaching. Be persisting in them, for in doing this you will save yourself as well as those hearing you.

From reading Paul and observing the Church today, it does seem to me there is somthing wrong some where.

Much of Christendom today teaches that when you die.... you dont really die you go some where else... heaven ?..... hell ?
Even though the Bible has over 25 passages stating the dead know nothing and take no further part in anything with no conciouse thought even until the ressurections begin..... much of Christendom today seems to be preaching.... Ye shall not surely die but be as gods !....

Where have we heard that before ?



Grace and Peace to you all

 

[maranatha_man]

Excellent point.

btw - a sizeable number of internet Christian forums - you'd get kicked-off w/ major prejudice for making it.

oh well... I guess animistic spiritism is America's dominant folk religion :-?

 

[jgredline]

Spirit driven
By what you believe everybody is saved right? So really, by your theology you don't even need a bible.
By the way that passage you quoted in 1 tim 4, is speaking of your kind of theology.
Jg

 

[Solo]

And Jesus spoke concerning the torment that the unbelieving will experience after they die on this earth:

From the Concordant Literal New Testament:

19 "Now a certain man was rich and he dressed in purple and cambric, daily making merry splendidly.
20 Now there was a certain poor man named Lazarus, who had been cast at his portal, having ulcers,
21 and yearning to be satisfied from the scraps which are falling from the rich man's table. But the curs also, coming, licked his ulcers.
22 Now the poor man came to die and he is carried away by the messengers into Abraham's bosom. Now the rich man also died, and was entombed.
23 And in the unseen, lifting up his eyes, existing in torments, he is seeing Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he shouting, said, 'Father Abraham, be merciful to me, and send Lazarus that he should be dipping the tip of his finger in water and cooling my tongue, for I am pained in this flame.'
25 "Now Abraham said, 'Child, be reminded that you got your good things in your life, and Lazarus likewise evil things. Yet now here he is being consoled, yet you are in pain.
26 And in all this, between us and you a great chasm has been established, so that those wanting to cross hence to you may not be able, nor yet those thence may be ferrying to us.'
27 "Yet he said, 'I am asking you then, father, that you should be sending him into my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, so that he may be certifying to them, lest they also may be coming into this place of torment.'
29 Yet Abraham is saying to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them!'
30 Yet he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone should be going to them from the dead, they will be repenting.'
31 Yet he said to him, 'If Moses and the prophets they are not hearing, neither will they be persuaded if someone should be rising from among the dead.'" Luke 16:19-31

From the King James Version:

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:19-31

Remember that the enemy will destroy who he can, and he will subvert the truth in order to trap those who are unlearned in the truth of God the Spirit. satan would that you would ignore the fact that the dead are tormented, and would propose to you that Jesus is a liar, just as he did when tempting Eve in the garden. Remember that the story that satan told Eve inferred that God was a liar. Imagine that he still uses the same old lies of yesteryear on us today. His only weapons are lies and deceptions.

.

 

[scutato]

When I participated in a study on this a while ago, I found that in most cases the Bible confirms that you die, you sleep, and then there is the resurrection where some are resurrected to eternal life, and some are resurrected to eternal torment.

There are a few exceptions though: Moses and Elijah are two important ones. Moses died, and Elijah was caught up in a chariot of fire, but both appeared to talk with Jesus at the transfiguration. What this tells me is that, at least in Moses' case, it is possible to go directly to be with God when one dies (credit to my dad for this observation).

Another note slightly off-topic, I'm not sure we go to Heaven. I'm yet to do a study on it, but from what I remember from Revelation, we'll dwell before God in New Jerusalem on the New Earth. But then I read in Matthew and many other places that we'll dwell in the Kingdom of Heaven! My guess is that the Kingdom of Heaven includes New Jerusalem, just as the Kingdom of Great Britain includes London. Thoughts? Again, I've not yet done a study on this, so feel free to correct me in my ignorance

 

[Solo]

Here are some verses for your study.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:55-60

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Revelation 6:9-11

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7

 

[scutato]

Ahhh right, crazy how you can have a theory and completely forget about a lot of things. Regarding living in Heaven though, the verses you gave could well have been temporary (I know the souls under the altar were there until the resurrection).

If we do go to live in Heaven, what's the purpose of New Jerusalem?

I'm looking for some verses regarding death and sleeping until the resurrection, but not finding any. I had a bunch! I'll have to start again tomorrow...must sleep :D

 

[Solo]

If we do go to live in Heaven, what's the purpose of New Jerusalem?

At what point does New Jerusalem descend from heaven? How long will New Jerusalem be on the earth? When will those that are in heaven as depicted in the verses that I supplied in the previous post, move into the New Jerusalem? Where are the many mansions that Jesus spoke of preparing for believers? Where do believers go after the one thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth?