The false doctrine of Open Theism

[JM]

We should have a rule like we do for UR:

The opportunity was given to the Open Theism supporters for a second time when discussions re-opened, so that they might produce evidence that Open Theism can be taken seriously. However, the unanswered questions have only been evaded and have led to more unanswered questions. Their distortion of scripture has been made readily apparent. They have take verses out of context, even ignoring key words within those verses that give them the very meaning that God intended. By doing so, they are making a mockery of what God's Word says. They have made it clear, that they deny the Word of God as Whole.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching,
rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man
of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

As a result, the disruption that they've caused will no longer be tolerated. Open Theism is a false doctrine and it will be treated as such. Therefore, there will be no promoting of it or debating it any longer. It has been exposed for what it is and it's being used by Satan now to cause distraction from discussing the Truth's of God's Word. Open Theism doctrine is now banned permanently.

Lets all get back to discussing topics that are beneficial & essential
to grow in the Word of God.

Peace,

JM

 

[Drew]

Dude, you need to put on some reality goggles. Open theists have posed numerous questions that "traditionalists" have simply failed to adequately answer. Open theists have presented clear scriptures that seem to show God changing his mind. The counter-arguments from the "traditionalist" have been weak or non-existent.

I will give you credit for moxie. Having been badly outdone in the actual debate about this issue, you suggest that those whose arguments have clearly prevailed should be banned from discussing this topic?

Now I want to be clear here - I am not saying that the open theist position is objectively right. All I am saying is that the arguments for open theism presented in these forums have clearly prevailed over the traditionalist arguments.

 

[Drew]

deleted own post

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

only according to JM. He just copied and pasted the notice about UR and changed the names.

 

[TanNinety]

Whatever floats your boat fundys.

 

[JM]

Whatever floats your boat fundys.

I put the 'fun' in fundy! lol Thank you, in this world it's apostasy vs. fundamentalism at every turn. Doesn't the Bible predict a great falling away? Sure does.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.a ... monID=6863

It seems you're trying to insult me by calling be a fundy, by doing so are you denying the fundamentals of faith?

Quote:
1. The Trinity: God is one "What" and three "Whos" with each "Who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

Wow, I'm happy to be a fundy.

JM

 

[JM]

only according to JM. He just copied and pasted the notice about UR and changed the names.

Wow you're a bright one, did you also notice the pretty green colour it was posted in? :

 

[Solo]

Who put the "era"(Texas word "error" pronunciation) in Liberal?

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

only according to JM. He just copied and pasted the notice about UR and changed the names.

Wow you're a bright one, did you also notice the pretty green colour it was posted in? :

yeah. i liked it. and on a number of occasions i have demonstrated myself to be quite bright. silly JM. but no further point in incurring more of your sarcasm. he withdrew the statement...

but as soon as i read it, i really did enjoy it... just so you know JM. you managed to tickle a young catholic's funny bone.

 

[JM]

only according to JM. He just copied and pasted the notice about UR and changed the names.

Wow you're a bright one, did you also notice the pretty green colour it was posted in? :

yeah. i liked it. and on a number of occasions i have demonstrated myself to be quite bright. silly JM. but no further point in incurring more of your sarcasm. he withdrew the statement...

but as soon as i read it, i really did enjoy it... just so you know JM. you managed to tickle a young catholic's funny bone.

I was wrong, I apologize. With so many attacking the faith I'm becoming a little touchy.

Peace,

j

 

[DivineNames]

We should have a rule like we do for UR:

The opportunity was given to the Open Theism supporters for a second time when discussions re-opened, so that they might produce evidence that Open Theism can be taken seriously. However, the unanswered questions have only been evaded and have led to more unanswered questions.

JM, aren't you the person that has repeatedly dodged scripture? (You know, the scripture that rather suggests that Jesus died for everyone...)

And as far as debate goes, you have been proved in this forum to be ignorant. You resort to sleazy attacks in frustration.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

I was wrong, I apologize. With so many attacking the faith I'm becoming a little touchy.

Peace,

j

On that point, I can truly relate! :

 

[JM]

r again.

I just wanted to use your style of arguement, repeating the samething over and over hoping someone will eventually believe it, even when it's been delt with.

You can't see because your blind, you lack spiritual eyes to see the truth, everyone of your points have been answered by posters on this forum and you can't see it. Even "IF" Christ died for all, meaning every single person in the world [this is called Amyraldism, the doctrine formulated by Moise Amyraut] it's still impossible for the dead to respond. You and Drew keep on dodging those scripture (You know, the scripture that rather suggests that Jesus died for many and that sinners are dead and hate God...)

And as far as debate goes, you have been proved in this forum to be unbelieving and ignorant. You resort to sleazy attacks in frustration as an unbeliever does.

As for me, the brethren support me, I've gotten emails and pm's that state that...even from those believers in other churches who disagree most strongly with me.

It seems you and Drew have united us.

Thank you.

Open Theism is still a false teaching, just like UR.

:

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

The catholics, I believe, also have a term for Open Theism. Is it the same as Neo-Mohlinism? If so, we call it Trinitarian Warfare Theodicy. Actually, from what Ive read, a Thomist approach to this arguement agains open theism would be fairly effective... Though anyone who has any experience in Mohlinism and hasnt subscribed to that way of thinking should be able to debunk it. However, they may also be two very different things...

 

[TanNinety]

I just wanted to use your style of arguement, repeating the samething over and over hoping someone will eventually believe it, even when it's been delt with.

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:56 pm
Hezekiah was dying from an illness and was not going to recover from it.
Hezekiah prayed for a healing and God removed the illness.
Hezekiah did not recover from the illness because the illness was removed.
Until Hezekiah prayed for God's healing, he was dying from an unrecoverable illness.
Simple, but against those who are following the heresy of Open Theism, and this is the one verse of scripture that they lay their entire set of beliefs upon.
You open theists can continue to walk with your eyes closed to the truth. Good bye.
~~~
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:58 pm
Hezekiah was dying from an illness and was not going to recover from it.
Hezekiah prayed for a healing and God removed the illness.
Hezekiah did not recover from the illness because the illness was removed.
Until Hezekiah prayed for God's healing, he was dying from an unrecoverable illness.
Simple, but against those who are following the heresy of Open Theism, and this is the one verse of scripture that they lay their entire set of beliefs upon.
You open theists can continue to walk with your eyes closed to the truth. Good bye.
~~~
Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:06 am
Hezekiah was dying from an illness and was not going to recover from it.
Hezekiah prayed for a healing and God removed the illness.
Hezekiah did not recover from the illness because the illness was removed.
Until Hezekiah prayed for God's healing, he was dying from an unrecoverable illness.
Simple, but against those who are following the heresy of Open Theism, and this is the one verse of scripture that they lay their entire set of beliefs upon.
You open theists can continue to walk with your eyes closed to the truth. Good bye.

You can't see because your blind, you lack spiritual eyes

Do you have anything better than ad hominem? We can get this same rhetoric from any other religionist.

As for me, the brethren support me

I will stick to the narrow gate, the path is hard but my destination is worth it.

Aren't you the one who uses circular reasoning and secular philosophy to form your arguements? Or is that Drew, you both seems to run on the same false teaching, the same arguements and false logic over

Drew’s philosophy and understanding line up with his reading of the scripture ..they do not deviate from God’s word. He is not suckling on the tit of traditional doctrines unlike others. He uses God given brain to understand our Father. Please point me towards any message of his in this forum where he personally attacked you with ad hominem. Then you can start casting your stones at him.

 

[Drew]

As for me, the brethren support me, I've gotten emails and pm's that state that...even from those believers in other churches who disagree most strongly with me.

I encourage such persons to come out into the open and enter the debate publically - if their arguments are strong, they will prevail. Perhaps one of these many supporters can provide an explanation for 2 Kings 20:

1 In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, "This is what the LORD says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover."

2 Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the LORD,

3 "Remember, O LORD, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes." And Hezekiah wept bitterly.

4 Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him:

5 "Go back and tell Hezekiah, the leader of my people, 'This is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you. On the third day from now you will go up to the temple of the LORD.

6 I will add fifteen years to your life. And I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. I will defend this city for my sake and for the sake of my servant David.' "

7 Then Isaiah said, "Prepare a poultice of figs." They did so and applied it to the boil, and he recovered.

If open theism is false, one of your associates should be able to tell us why God's statement "you will not recover" - an obvious statement about Hezekiah's future - is not a falsehood.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

Drew’s philosophy and understanding line up with his reading of the scripture ..they do not deviate from God’s word. He is not suckling on the tit of traditional doctrines unlike others. He uses God given brain to understand our Father. Please point me towards any message of his in this forum where he personally attacked you with ad hominem. Then you can start casting your stones at him.

So did Aquinas... and Augustine... why dont you guys listen to them?

 

[Solo]

As for me, the brethren support me, I've gotten emails and pm's that state that...even from those believers in other churches who disagree most strongly with me.

I encourage such persons to come out into the open and enter the debate publically - if their arguments are strong, they will prevail. Perhaps one of these many supporters can provide an explanation for 2 Kings 20:

1 In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, "This is what the LORD says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover."

2 Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the LORD,

3 "Remember, O LORD, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes." And Hezekiah wept bitterly.

4 Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him:

5 "Go back and tell Hezekiah, the leader of my people, 'This is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you. On the third day from now you will go up to the temple of the LORD.

6 I will add fifteen years to your life. And I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. I will defend this city for my sake and for the sake of my servant David.' "

7 Then Isaiah said, "Prepare a poultice of figs." They did so and applied it to the boil, and he recovered.

If open theism is false, one of your associates should be able to tell us why God's statement "you will not recover" - an obvious statement about Hezekiah's future - is not a falsehood.

Hezekiah was dying from an illness and was not going to recover from it.
Hezekiah prayed for a healing and God removed the illness.
Hezekiah did not recover from the illness because the illness was removed.
Until Hezekiah prayed for God's healing, he was dying from an unrecoverable illness.
Simple, but against those who are following the heresy of Open Theism, and this is the one verse of scripture that they lay their entire set of beliefs upon.
You open theists can continue to walk with your eyes closed to the truth. Good bye.

 

[Drew]

As for me, the brethren support me, I've gotten emails and pm's that state that...even from those believers in other churches who disagree most strongly with me.

I encourage such persons to come out into the open and enter the debate publically - if their arguments are strong, they will prevail. Perhaps one of these many supporters can provide an explanation for 2 Kings 20:

1 In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, "This is what the LORD says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover."

2 Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the LORD,

3 "Remember, O LORD, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes." And Hezekiah wept bitterly.

4 Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him:

5 "Go back and tell Hezekiah, the leader of my people, 'This is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you. On the third day from now you will go up to the temple of the LORD.

6 I will add fifteen years to your life. And I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. I will defend this city for my sake and for the sake of my servant David.' "

7 Then Isaiah said, "Prepare a poultice of figs." They did so and applied it to the boil, and he recovered.

If open theism is false, one of your associates should be able to tell us why God's statement "you will not recover" - an obvious statement about Hezekiah's future - is not a falsehood.

Hezekiah was dying from an illness and was not going to recover from it.
Hezekiah prayed for a healing and God removed the illness.
Hezekiah did not recover from the illness because the illness was removed.
Until Hezekiah prayed for God's healing, he was dying from an unrecoverable illness.
Simple, but against those who are following the heresy of Open Theism, and this is the one verse of scripture that they lay their entire set of beliefs upon.
You open theists can continue to walk with your eyes closed to the truth. Good bye.

OK then. How about a serious response to the 2 Kings 20 text?

 

[TanNinety]

Drew’s philosophy and understanding line up with his reading of the scripture ..they do not deviate from God’s word. He is not suckling on the tit of traditional doctrines unlike others. He uses God given brain to understand our Father. Please point me towards any message of his in this forum where he personally attacked you with ad hominem. Then you can start casting your stones at him.

So did Aquinas... and Augustine... why dont you guys listen to them?

Other than the scripture from the bible I look forward to no other "readings" to form an opinion. I do not know greek, armaic or hebrew. So in certain instances I use others works to understand the language behind a scripture because I believe there were translation errors. I did not say there were errors in the bible but in the translations just to clear things up before people build up strawman about how the bible is inerrant.

Stop using strawman of how I can go listen to aquinas and whoever not because I DO NOT derive my relationship with the Father according to someone else's standard. No where have I stated Drew uses philosophy of the ages or he follows someone elses philosophy. Neither did he. Can one not be philosophical without mimicing another? ..if you are intelligent are you mimicing einstein or are you intelligent by your own virtue? Or are you saying the holy spirit is incapable of teaching someone through logic and philosophy?

Invite yourself in confidence and answer the 2 kings scripture that Drew had posted and please debunk open theism so we can move on.