The fate of Judas

[JoJo]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Judas' fate after he betrayed Christ and then hung himself?

Some believe that Judas will spend eternity in hell because he betrayed Jesus. But Matthew 27:3-4 tells us that he repented: "Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood..."

Your thoughts?

 

[Relic]

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I've always believed that IF Judas repented and asked the Lord to forgive him, then I think he was forgiven. We don't know what Judas said before he hung himself. He may have said, "Lord forgive me". No one knows what he said the minute before he died.

I don't know of any place in the scriptures where it says a repentant person is not forgiven, do you?

Note: As of June 28,2009 here is my UPDATE:


Okay, I stand corrected!

Now I think I understand better why the repentance of Judas was to no avail.Click link for updated post:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38591&p=465523#p465523

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[Guest]

Your thoughts?

I have long held to the doctrine of hypodema. It seems like the only plausible explanation to me.

 

[JoJo]

I've never heard of hypodema. Could you explain?

 

[Guest]

I've never heard of hypodema. Could you explain?

The doctrine of hypodema, or more fully the doctrine of punishment by hypodema, maintains that Judas was, is, and will be punished for his actions here on Earth for eternity. This punishment consists of being forced to go shoe shopping -- hypodema is Greek for sandals -- with really really attractive Middle Eastern girls for the rest of eternity.

Torn between torture and pleasure. Poor guy.

 

[stranger]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Judas' fate after he betrayed Christ and then hung himself?

Some believe that Judas will spend eternity in hell because he betrayed Jesus. But Matthew 27:3-4 tells us that he repented: "Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood..."

Your thoughts?

Hello JoJo,

Tough question - at the last supper Satan entered into Judas -- that is a problem and a half because Judas' body is a temple and I can't believe that the Holy Spirit and Satan would share the same temple.
But who knows what happened after since he repented -- but then did he reach repentance?

blessings

 

[JoJo]

I've never heard of hypodema. Could you explain?

The doctrine of hypodema, or more fully the doctrine of punishment by hypodema, maintains that Judas was, is, and will be punished for his actions here on Earth for eternity. This punishment consists of being forced to go shoe shopping -- hypodema is Greek for sandals -- with really really attractive Middle Eastern girls for the rest of eternity.

Torn between torture and pleasure. Poor guy.

I'm sorry, minnesota. You totally lost me. lol

Tough question - at the last supper Satan entered into Judas -- that is a problem and a half because Judas' body is a temple and I can't believe that the Holy Spirit and Satan would share the same temple.
But who knows what happened after since he repented -- but then did he reach repentance?

Did Judas even have the Holy Spirit in him? I've always believed that the Holy Spirit wasn't given until after Jesus rose from the dead. (John 20:21-22 says, "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost...")

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "reach repentance."

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry, minnesota. You totally lost me. lol

Then my attempt at humor has failed. I shall now go hang my head in shame.

 

[JoJo]

Awwwwww. It's okay. :smt056

 

[handy]

Great question JoJo. I think the answer might lie in how the word "repent" is being used here.

I checked the greek and the word translated repent in regards to Judas is the word metamelomai. This word means to be sorry about something after one does it, or to change one's mind about a course of action after the fact.

This is different from the word metanoeÃ…Â which is that type of repentence that we see in conversion. MetanoeÃ…Â means to change one's mind for the better and heartily reject one's past actions.

The first word is the word we see when the Scriptures are talking about someone merely changing their mind about something. In the parable Jesus told of the two sons who were ordered by their father to go to work in the vineyard, the first son said, "I'll go" and didn't. The second son said "No, I won't go" then regretted saying no and so went. Metamelomai is the word used in that parable.

However, when Jesus calls us to "Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand" or states that heaven rejoices when one sinner repents, it is the word MetanoeÃ…Â used.

Back to Judas, he apparently was sorry as can be at the way things turned out. However, given the fact that he went out and committed suicide, it seems as though there wasn't any kind of restoration between himself and God.

 

[turnorburn]

Jesus knew this from the beginning who would betray him, Judas was a devil, I think the Rolling Stones sang about it in that tune Sympathy For The Devil.

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

turnorburn

 

[azlan88]

Jesus prayed before His crucifixion for the disciples, but he acknowledged in John 17:12 "and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture must be fulfilled." So there we have it, folks. Judas is in hell to this very day. It is a shame , but it's true.

 

[JoJo]

Great question JoJo. I think the answer might lie in how the word "repent" is being used here.

I checked the greek and the word translated repent in regards to Judas is the word metamelomai. This word means to be sorry about something after one does it, or to change one's mind about a course of action after the fact.

This is different from the word metanoeÃ…Â which is that type of repentence that we see in conversion. MetanoeÃ…Â means to change one's mind for the better and heartily reject one's past actions.

The first word is the word we see when the Scriptures are talking about someone merely changing their mind about something. In the parable Jesus told of the two sons who were ordered by their father to go to work in the vineyard, the first son said, "I'll go" and didn't. The second son said "No, I won't go" then regretted saying no and so went. Metamelomai is the word used in that parable.

However, when Jesus calls us to "Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand" or states that heaven rejoices when one sinner repents, it is the word MetanoeÃ…Â used.

Back to Judas, he apparently was sorry as can be at the way things turned out. However, given the fact that he went out and committed suicide, it seems as though there wasn't any kind of restoration between himself and God.

Thanks, Dora! So Judas regretted what he did, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he repented of his sin. It's very confusing. Perhaps if he had repented, he wouldn't have felt the need to commit suicide. I suppose only God knows if Judas truly repented in the end.

Jesus prayed before His crucifixion for the disciples, but he acknowledged in John 17:12 "and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture must be fulfilled." So there we have it, folks. Judas is in hell to this very day. It is a shame , but it's true.

I suppose it would seem that way.

To take this topic even further, some may argue that Judas didn't have a choice in whether he betrayed Jesus or not, as Scripture had to be fulfilled. But do you suppose that God, knowing Judas' heart beforehand, would have chosen Judas to be a disciple in order to fulfill Scripture? In other words, it wasn't that Judas was this great guy worthy of being a disciple and then suddenly turned on Jesus, but that Judas was really evil in his heart and God knew this beforehand. As for metamelomai, I suppose even evil men can regret their actions.

 

[Sound Silence]

To take this topic even further, some may argue that Judas didn't have a choice in whether he betrayed Jesus or not, as Scripture had to be fulfilled. But do you suppose that God, knowing Judas' heart beforehand, would have chosen Judas to be a disciple in order to fulfill Scripture? In other words, it wasn't that Judas was this great guy worthy of being a disciple and then suddenly turned on Jesus, but that Judas was really evil in his heart and God knew this beforehand. As for metamelomai, I suppose even evil men can regret their actions.

This comes down to the same reason as "How can we have free will if God already knows what we are going to do, or if He's already planned everything out?"

There's no real easy answer to this, but I disagree with the notion that Judas "did what he had to" and his hence not accountable for his actions.

 

[JoJo]

Yeah, I thought about that as I was writing that paragraph. I had a lengthy discussion about this very topic in another thread: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=37579&p=452730#p452730

While I do believe that Judas had a choice in the matter (he could have refused to betray Christ) I also believe that God knew beforehand that Judas would choose to betray Him. In order for Scripture to be fulfilled, somebody had to do the betraying. And God knew Judas would be the one.

 

[Fembot]

Judas committed suicide. He can't be with God.

 

[mondar]

Joh 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jesus called Judas the son of perdition, or the son of damnation. Judas is in hell. Certainly all apostles perished physically, but only Judas perished eternally.

As everyone knows, Judas betrayed the Christ, the son of God. The sovereignty of God is revealed in that this was a matter of prophecy. Christ knew that he would betray him.
Joh 13:21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in the spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
God had sovereignly determined that Judas would betray the Son of God so that some of us who have sinned in Adam, and sinned by ourselves, should receive salvation, being in Christ by faith. God made all the conditions for Judas's betrayal possible, and then will punish Judas eternally for his sin. God receives the glory for his punishment of sin.

There is no glory for me in that punishment, because I am no different then Judas. We are made of a cut of the same cloth. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We were all sinners and rebels, sold under the slavery of sin, and dead in sin. It is only by Gods grace that I believed. God arranged all the circumstances. He brought the message to me, he regenerated my soul, and I believed and was saved.

The fact of it is that there is no difference between any of us, and Judas. We are all of the same lump of clay. The only difference is what the potter makes of the clay, one lump to destruction (part of that lump was the son of perdition -- Judas) , and one to salvation.

 

[Cornelius]

The Bible is clear that he perished:

Joh 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Meaning of perdition

# (n.) Entire loss; utter destruction; ruin; esp., the utter loss of the soul, or of final happiness in a future state; future misery or eternal death.
# (n.) Loss of diminution.

 

[Cornelius]

Ha, I see Mondar has quoted that scripture before me. Well, then , I am then confirming your post !

 

[Fembot]

The fact of it is that there is no difference between any of us, and Judas. We are all of the same lump of clay. The only difference is what the potter makes of the clay, one lump to destruction (part of that lump was the son of perdition -- Judas) , and one to salvation.

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