I was just writing another reply to someone and realized something. Possibly huge...
The first day or "Day 1" of creation may not have actually occured until Genesis 1:5.
Hmmm.. that's in fact what I think the text explicitly says, eg: "the
first day".
There were TWO things that were needed for the first day to occur and they did not happen until verse 5.
Actually, if you are thinking chronologically, that things needed for a night and day didn't occur until verse 5, that's not the only way to look at it;
For a day to happen, scientifically, we are talking about formed shapes, like the planet/earth -- rotating next to a star/sun -- so that the shape of the earth and it's movement causes the light and dark to go around the planet. That means for a modern 'chronological' day, the things needed for a first day do not occur 'until' scripture Verses 14-19, because that's when the Sun is first created.
Note: Genesis may be understood either chronologically, or topologically ; but it's going to be very difficult to understand it in a strictly chronological sense; Some people do try to do so -- and I'm not too much into that but you're welcome to try if that's what you want to do, but in many ways the topological approach is more common in ancient biblical writing. Not even the Gospels which are written at a much later date, order everything in chronological order, just because they are talking about history. If you compare the Gospels, even the synoptics, the events often happen in different orders in different Gospels. There is a tendency to group short periods of time together on the same page, but to link different groups of time together not by order in which they occurred in -- but by the topic that the author wishes to discuss.
They were "evening" and "morning". Both together make "day one" or "one day" and they did not occur until verse 5.
"God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, day one" Gen 1:5
Yes, the combination of darkness followed by light, is a 'day'. Creation goes from the dark TO the light.
Do you know what this says to me? And it's huge if it's true.
This would mean that ALL of Genesis verse 1 through 4 was OUTSIDE OF TIME! They could have been millions or even BILLIONS or TRILLIONS of years.
Yes, I think it could be.
Well, remember one thing, a day is as a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is as a Day. ( 2Peter 3:8)
Even the days mentioned from verses 5 on-wards, could be arbitrary spans of time.
This would FULLY explain and FULLY reconcile scriptural truth to the scientific and archeological findings and both would agree on the
true age of the Earth. It would also confirm my own suspicions about the idea of a "Time-Gap Theory" which I shared a little on
here a while back. It could be even BIGGER than originally thought.
Do you see anything I am missing here?
I'm not going to follow the link... but yes I see Lots, although -- you might be able to reconcile these issues in the way you're attempting; none the less, many of the apparent contradictions are artificially created by people not paying close attention to how ancient authors and cultures wrote history. Take for instance the time of the captivity in Egypt, which if you search you will no doubt find out is a certain period of years. If you look a bit more, you will find in scripture genealogies that tell you how long each person lived in a tribal line, and who their child was, so that if you are diligent you can go and add up all the life spans of one particular family from parent to child all the way through their lives in Egypt; .... AND... If this were modern history -in purely chronological order and all generations accounted for, then the number of years in all these lifespans MUST add up to a number *much* bigger than the total number of years that family line spent in Egypt. eg: because a child is not born the moment a father or mother dies, but is born LONG before that -- usually when the parent is between 13 and 35 years of age. So that there overlapping years in the lifespans of family members.
But guess what happens if you actually do the math ? It turns out to be many decades too short a time to arrive at the number of years specified as to how long the Israelites were supposedly in Egypt. Please note: This is not a disproof of the accuracy of the bible, mind you -- rather it's rather a problem with the way people recorded ancient history; Fathers may refer to great grandfathers, and children to grandchildren, and covenant relationships cause special tallying's problems as well. It's quite common for periods of time that were considered unimportant to be skipped.
Just so, many of the people claiming the Earth is 4000 years old do so based on the idea that there are no jumps in the Genealogies, and that they can take all ages in the bible as literal Earth years. Neither assumptions are true, or else we would be able to add up ages in the 'captivity' of Israel in Egypt and get numbers which are larger than the number of years spent in Captivity. (It's a good exercise to try out the math.... Go for it! ;)
So -- Let me suggest another way that Genesis 1:1-5 can be looked at ; I would like you to consider, for a moment, that rather than thinking of these things as events before verse 5 -- to think of them as the topic sentence in a paragraph which describes how the author is going to describe the problem of creation, eg: what the topics will be in the discussion which 'follows'. It is in essence, a table of contents for the chapter.
God presents a description of two problems that he wishes to solve by creating things, those problems are a lack of form, and a lack of value.
If you 'void' a check, you make it worthless -- valueless. So -- what void refers to is that there is no value in it yet -- it's worthless.
And, formlessness -- means not having a shape. For example: Water, if it has no boundaries -- is shapeless. You can't measure, or rule water 'with' water if it has no edge or boundary. If Water is made to have a surface, has a limited shape -- but on one side, then you can 'sort of measure' it; Air is also shapeless.
Therefore, when God creates -- first he makes Three realms of increasing "form" (days 1-3) -- and Then he makes creatures who find value in, and 'see' or 'oversee' these forms (Things with eyes, or which somehow 'watch' over it) Understand it this way: God makes three distinct kinds of places, and then makes creatures to traverse, measure, and 'rule' over these distinct kinds of places.
Days 1-3 are the creation of types of places, Days 4-6 are the creation of rulers who value (treasure) those particular places;
For this reason, that there is a correspondence, they *must* be listed in the same order. a 3x2 matrix of days.
So: I don't think you are off the mark when you say that what is going on in verse 1-5 happened outside of time; I would find it truer to say that the order of events in the days of creation is uncertain, because the author is arranging events by topic -- and not chronological sequence.
But if you wish to struggle with making them all chronological, that's up to you -- I don't think the author cared, and wasn't trying to make them chronological; but it's not really the point of Bible study to limit one's potential outlook -- but rather to list ways of approaching the problem.
If you are still with me, then notice that there is a logical and sequential relationship easily found once you look for a 3x2 topologial ordering:
Day 4 (Genesis 1:14-19) corresponds to Day 1 (Genesis 1:3-5),
The reason this is so is because the 'watchers/eyes' are the stars -- and the stars and Sun watch (pun intended) "time", day and night.
Note: The angels are called stars, and also are called the watchers and holy ones, and some are considered all seeing (of all times.)
Although "light and dark" are described on Day 1 -- in a scientific sense, a 'day' is determined by the rotation of the Earth; but the oceans are not created with the Sun, until Day 4. So Day 1 and Day 4 can be events seen to be happening in parallel, not in strict chronological order if you understand the author to be writing in topological categories, and not strict chronological order.
Day 5 (Genesis 1:20-23) Corresponds to Day 2 (Genesis 1:6-8),
The reason this is so -- is that the creatures who value the space of sea and sky, are naturally fish and birds.
Those are the creatures equipped to travel over, measure, and who 'value' those spaces.
Day 6 (Genesis 1:24-31) Corresponds to Day 3 (Genesis 1:9-13),
The reason this is so, is that Land animals view with their eyes, and value the land upon which they live, and the 'garden' they live within.
Man, however, goes beyond the mere measurement and valuation of land -- to desiring (valuing) Land, sea, and sky; He hunts, he fishes, and he nets birds. (Not to mention that now, all these years later -- he flies.)
To recap; there are three days concerned with "formlessness" (days 1-3), and three more days concerned with the making it non-void (eg: having value) by making someone, somthing, who VALUES or cares about the form given. Some scholars say its kingdoms and rulers, I'm not sure exactly how you want to describe it -- but I hope you get the general idea from my outline.
Questions/thoughts ?
