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The Five Pillars of Islam

D

DivineNames

Guest
Craig Winn, Prophet Of Doom, chapter -"Source Material • Islam’s Dark Past"

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/sm.html



"The Second Pillar is: “2. To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.†Once again, that’s not feasible. The “compulsory congregational prayer†isn’t described in the Qur’an. There aren’t even any clues. In fact, the Qur’an says that there should be three prayers, none of which it depicts, and the Hadith demands five. The only explanation of the obligatory prostration is found in the Sunnahâ€â€and even then it’s never described by the prophet himself. Muslims are performing a ritual without Qur’anic precedence. As such, the Second Pillar is rubble.
Let’s see if the Third Pillar survives without the Sunnah. To find out, we turn to the Hadith: Bukhari:V1B2N7 “3. To pay Zakat.†How is that possible when the terms of the Zakat are omitted from the Qur’an? The first to commit them to paper was Ishaq. A century later, Tabari referenced Ishaq’s Hadith. The only reason Muslims can pay the Zakat is because Ishaq explained it to them. The Profitable Prophet Plan is bankrupt without the Sira.
Surely the Fourth Pillar will fare better: “4. To perform Hajj.†Nope. That’s impossible too. The only explanations of the Hajj are in the Sunnah. No aspect of the pilgrimage can be performed without referencing the Hadith. Muslims would be lost without it.
Do you suppose Allah will redeem himself and explain the final pillar in his “perfect, detailed, and final revelation to mankind?†Bukhari:V1B2N7 “5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.†Guess what? Allah forgot to explain the nature of the fast. Without the Hadith, Muslims would be expected to forgo eating during the entire month of Ramadhan. But that’s not the way they observe the fast, for it’s not the way it’s explained in the Sunnah. As a matter of fact, without the Hadith, Muslims wouldn’t know why Ramadhan was special. The only account of the initial revelation is in their Traditionsâ€â€initially chronicled by Ishaq and then copied by Bukhari, Muslim, and Tabari.
Without Ibn Ishaq and those who copied and edited his arrangement of Hadith concerning Muhammad’s words and deeds, there would be no Islam."



The author claims that the details of the five pillars of Islam are not included in the Quran! The "perfect word of God" doesn't bother to tell us such things! Is this accurate? What do Muslims think about this if it is?
 
Salam DivineNames,

First Let us look to this verse:
004.080
Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.

So the sunna and hadiths consider the second source in Islam after the holy Quran

Quran has mentioned all pillars of Islam but he left the details to the prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

See these verses:

Pray and zakat:

024.056
And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and obey the Messenger, so that mercy may be shown to you.

002.110
And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and whatever good you send before for yourselves, you shall find it with Allah; surely Allah sees what you do.

Hajj


002.196
And complete the Hajj or 'umra in the service of Allah....
002.197
For Hajj are the months well known. If any one undertakes that duty therein, Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do, (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (With you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, o ye that are wise.

Fasting

002.187
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.

002.185
Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.


Salam
 
Muhsen said:
Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.

Given the character of Muhammad, very very suspect.



Muhsen said:
Quran has mentioned all pillars of Islam but he left the details to the prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

So you basically agree with what was said. (I think you may be contesting some of it?)

So the pillars of Islam are all mentioned in the Quran. Are they listed as such in the Quran? Or is that in the hadith?

Shouldn't the Quran really have included all the details? It is the perfect word of God after all...
 
DivineNames said:
Muhsen said:
Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.

Given the character of Muhammad, very very suspect.



Muhsen said:
Quran has mentioned all pillars of Islam but he left the details to the prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

So you basically agree with what was said. (I think you may be contesting some of it?)

So the pillars of Islam are all mentioned in the Quran. Are they listed as such in the Quran? Or is that in the hadith?

Shouldn't the Quran really have included all the details? It is the perfect word of God after all...


Actually the pillars of Islam are all mentioned in the Quran. And they listed in the Quran and in the hadiths.

Let us look to these verses:
God Almighty said:
003.164
Certainly Allah conferred a benefit upon the believers when He raised among them a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His communications and purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error.

009.128
Now hath come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful.

So, this is a benefit upon the believers when God make the details for the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to teach Muslims everything because he among themselves.


Let us look to these verses:

017.094
What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger?"

017.095
Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for a messenger."
 
Muhsen said:
DivineNames said:
So the pillars of Islam are all mentioned in the Quran. Are they listed as such in the Quran? Or is that in the hadith?


Actually the pillars of Islam are all mentioned in the Quran. And they listed in the Quran and in the hadiths.


Where are they listed in the Quran?
 
I already have mentioned it above

here some verses:

Pray and zakat:

024.056
And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and obey the Messenger, so that mercy may be shown to you.

002.110
And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and whatever good you send before for yourselves, you shall find it with Allah; surely Allah sees what you do.

Hajj


002.196
And complete the Hajj or 'umra in the service of Allah....
002.197
For Hajj are the months well known. If any one undertakes that duty therein, Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do, (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (With you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, o ye that are wise.

Fasting

002.187
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.

002.185
Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.
 
Muhsen said:
I already have mentioned it above

here some verses:


That shows that they are mentioned in the Quran. I was asking if they were listed as the five basic principles of Islam in the Quran.
 
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 7:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said: Islam is based on (the following) five (principles):

1. To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.

2. To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.

3. To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) .

4. To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca)

5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamental ... 2.sbt.html



Is something equivalent to this found in the Quran?
 
What the difference since they are mentioned in the Quran even each one in other verses,
Because we believe in all verses,
 
Muhsen said:
What the difference since they are mentioned in the Quran even each one in other verses,
Because we believe in all verses,



Well it just seems a little strange that is all. I think you can find differences within sects of Islam about this, but in general you have five pillars of Islam, five basic principles upon which the religion is based. They aren't listed in the Quran as such, (?) and the details of these five principles are not even included in the Quran.
 
DivineNames said:
Muhsen said:
What the difference since they are mentioned in the Quran even each one in other verses,
Because we believe in all verses,



Well it just seems a little strange that is all. I think you can find differences within sects of Islam about this, but in general you have five pillars of Islam, five basic principles upon which the religion is based. They aren't listed in the Quran as such, (?) and the details of these five principles are not even included in the Quran.

No DivineNames, there are no differences within sects of Islam especially about the five pillars because they are all mentioned in Quran, and all Islam’s sects believe in All Quranic verses,
What you should know about Sects of Islam they believe in one Original Quran. And what including in Quranic verses unlike Christianity denominations, there are more than 62 copy of the bible and all contradict each other

Regarding the details there is wisdom to keep it for Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to teach Muslims everything because he among themselves.

Let us look to these verses:

003.164
Certainly Allah conferred a benefit upon the believers when He raised among them a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His communications and purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error.

009.128
Now hath come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful.
So, this is a benefit upon the believers when God make the details for the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to teach Muslims everything because he among themselves.


017.094
What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger?"

017.095
Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for a messenger."
 
DivineNames said:
five pillars of Islam, five basic principles upon which the religion is based.
nit-picking, yes, but in this case it makes a difference.

it should read "five basic principles of how men must act". i've always read the 5 pillars are means for social guidence and the conduct comes from the scripture.

if islam is based on any scripture, it would be the line "there is no god but god, and muhammad is his profet."


sidenote: i love how beautiful the insides of mosques are. each time i get the chance to visit one, my eyes pick a line and start following it, endlessly. :D
 
Muhsen said:
No DivineNames, there are no differences within sects of Islam especially about the five pillars because they are all mentioned in Quran, and all Islam’s sects believe in All Quranic verses,

They being mentioned in the Quran, is not the same as a statement within the Quran that they are the five core principles. They obviously aren't the only things that are mentioned in the Quran, how does one distinguish the five pillars?

I think that there are differences over the core principles of Islam within sects of Islam, I will provide some info on this at some point.


Muhsen said:
there are more than 62 copy of the bible and all contradict each other

Textual Variants of the Qur'an

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/
 
What you have to know about hadiths, it’s second source in Islam after Quran and the wisdom from hadiths is to explain Quran for people and to teach them.

So Quran clearly said you have to:

1:To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's messenger.
2. To pray
3. To pay Zakat
4. To perform Hajj.
5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.

And Hadiths and sunnah came to explain these to people:


by the way

50000 ERRORS IN THE BIBLE

http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Bible4-6.html
 
Muhsen said:
... by the way
50000 ERRORS IN THE BIBLE
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Bible4-6.html

Muhsen, all that material from Ahmed Deedat has been soundly rebutted here:
- Deedat's material - ALL rebutted -

As for the particular book.... it is answered here:

You may want to consider this about the Quran:

:)
 
Amazing Facts about Christianity

Did God declare/make your religion (Christianity/Judaism) perfect. Does the names of "Christianity" and "Judaism" have divine inspiration. Can you show me a single verse to that effect? NO

BUT GOD DECLARED ISLAAM THE PERFECT RELIGION:

Noble Qur’aan 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Did God promise to guard your bible from corruption, can you show me a single verse to this effect? NO

BUT GOD PROMISED AND HAS BEEN PROTECTING NOBLE QURAN:
Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)[].

Did God say the religion of God is Christianity/Judaism, can you show me
a single verse to this effect? NO

BUT GOD DECLARED THE RELIGION OF GOD (ALLAH) IS ISLAAM:
Noble Quran 3:19! Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account.

Noble Quran 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Does the name(s) "Christian/Jew" have divine inspiration? NO
BUT NAME "MUSLIM" HAS DIVINE INSPIRATION:

Noble Quran 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are "Muslims."
That is why Islaam is a perfect religion and Christianity/Judaism NOT.
That is why Noble Quraan is a perfect book guarded and protected by God Almighty Himself since its revelation. Contrary to that bible (OT&NT) are corrupted and adulterated.

Islaam has abrogated all religions:

Noble Quran 3:85! "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Al-Qur'an 3:85]

There is no disagreement among the Islamic scholars concerning the abrogation of previous religions like Judaism and Christian and that believing in their validity is a form of kufr.

Muhammad Ibn al-Alâ' told us that Ibn Numayr reported from Mujâlid from Ibn Aamir from Jâbir that Umar Ibn al-Khattâb brought a copy of the Torah to the Prophet (P) and said: "O Apostle of God, this is a copy of the Torah." But [the Prophet] kept silent. Then Umar started reading and the face of the Prophet kept changing. So, Abu Bakr interrupted him violently: "Don't you see the face of the Prophet (P)?" Umar looked at the Prophet's face and said "May God preserve me from His anger and from the anger of his Apostle (P), we accepted God as Lord and Islâm as religion and Muhammad as prophet." Then the Prophet (Pbuh) said: "By the One Who owns Mohammed’s soul, if Moses (Pbuh) appeared to you and you followed him and left me, you would go astray from the right path and if he were alive and reached [the time of] my Prophethood he would have followed me. ""
 
Muhsen said:
Amazing Facts about Christianity

Did God declare/make your religion (Christianity/Judaism) perfect. Does the names of "Christianity" and "Judaism" have divine inspiration. Can you show me a single verse to that effect? NO

BUT GOD DECLARED ISLAAM THE PERFECT RELIGION:

Noble Qur’aan 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Did God promise to guard your bible from corruption, can you show me a single verse to this effect? NO

BUT GOD PROMISED AND HAS BEEN PROTECTING NOBLE QURAN:
Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)[].

Did God say the religion of God is Christianity/Judaism, can you show me
a single verse to this effect? NO

BUT GOD DECLARED THE RELIGION OF GOD (ALLAH) IS ISLAAM:
Noble Quran 3:19! Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account.

Noble Quran 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…



Muhsen, this line of argument is pathetic. You can't cite Quran verses at non-Muslims. Obviously, non-Muslims are unlikely to accept the Quran as divine revelation. It has no authority.


From the Christian perspective, they have the only religion to have been founded by God himself in person. What could possibly follow that?
 
DivineNames said:
I think that there are differences over the core principles of Islam within sects of Islam, I will provide some info on this at some point.


Five Pillars of Islam
From Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pilla ... Shia_Islam




I am not suggesting they believe something different, so much that its categorized in a different way. Presumably this can happen because the five pillars are not spelled out as such in the Quran.
 
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