The Genesis Account

[Vanguard]

Cain and Abel, the children of Adam and Eve. Brothers, and the first murder. After Cain killed Abel, God punished Cain by forcing him to walk the earth as a vagrant. Cain was afraid of being killed by whomever he met, so God put a sign [mark] on Cain as a warning to anyone that Cain came across.

Here are my questions for discussion:

1. At that time, Genesis only accounts for four people: Adam, Eve, Cain and the now dead Abel. If Cain was to wander the earth, away from Adam and Eve, who did he have to fear?

2. Furthermore, Cain traveled east of Eden and settled in the land of Nod, taking a wife, and having a son (Enoch). Where did his wife come from?

3. Adam and Eve have only one other account of NAMED offpsring that we know of, and that is Seth [Sheth] who was to replace Abel. Seth had a son (Enosh) but who was his wife?


My theory is that God created more people than just Adam and Eve during the initial creation, but Genesis of the Torah only speaks of those relevant to the lineage of the Hebrews. It is, after all, an account of Hebrew history and their laws. There are HUGE timegaps in Genesis.

Note: this is NOT a discussion about young earth vs old earth, creation vs evolution, etc. This is merely looking at the Genesis account of Cain and Seth, and how we might explain their offspring.

 

[wayseer]

You are trying to take the story of Genesis literally. As a result, you will run into any number of problems.

 

[Vanguard]

You are trying to take the story of Genesis literally. As a result, you will run into any number of problems.

I don't take it literally. If anything, I am the open minded one that is willing to think outside of the box, and look at the bigger picture. I was just interested in the views of others.

 

[Aloysium]

there is a lot not mentioned in Genesis

i think its not meant to explain more than
how sin entered and spread into the world that God created

imho: these were real ppl then and now

 

[westtexas]

My theory is that God created more people than just Adam and Eve during the initial creation,

I don't believe your theory is plausible if you consider Gen 3:20 "and Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of ALL living" (KJV caps mine)

 

[Vanguard]

I don't believe your theory is plausible if you consider Gen 3:20 "and Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of ALL living" (KJV caps mine)

You took the verse out of context. This is where hermeneutics comes in to play.

Adam and Eve had just eaten from the "forbidden fruit," and God cursed them to experience death. Prior to that, the implication is that they would be immortal had they not eaten from the tree of life. It is the "unsaid message" that hermeneutics explores.

To take this further, if you are a living, biological being, you will die at some point. For Adam to call his wife Eve, and for Genesis 3:20 to say that she is the mother of all the living, is metaphorical. She may have been the first living, biological mother to humankind (Cain and Abel), but not necessarily the mother of all humans. Simply put, she was the first woman. Others were created as well, but not talked about because they were not of the Hebrew lineage. The OT is the history, lineage and law for the Hebrews. They have no reason to talk about Asians, Indians, etc. Have to think outside the box!

As stated in an above post, if you take Genesis literally on all accounts, you run into stumbling blocks.

totopic

Where did their wives come from?


Edit: please don't take this the wrong way. I am just trying to get some thought provoking going on.

 

[n2thelight]

Cain and Abel, the children of Adam and Eve. Brothers, and the first murder. After Cain killed Abel, God punished Cain by forcing him to walk the earth as a vagrant. Cain was afraid of being killed by whomever he met, so God put a sign [mark] on Cain as a warning to anyone that Cain came across.

Here are my questions for discussion:

1. At that time, Genesis only accounts for four people: Adam, Eve, Cain and the now dead Abel. If Cain was to wander the earth, away from Adam and Eve, who did he have to fear?

2. Furthermore, Cain traveled east of Eden and settled in the land of Nod, taking a wife, and having a son (Enoch). Where did his wife come from?

3. Adam and Eve have only one other account of NAMED offpsring that we know of, and that is Seth [Sheth] who was to replace Abel. Seth had a son (Enosh) but who was his wife?


My theory is that God created more people than just Adam and Eve during the initial creation, but Genesis of the Torah only speaks of those relevant to the lineage of the Hebrews. It is, after all, an account of Hebrew history and their laws. There are HUGE timegaps in Genesis.

Note: this is NOT a discussion about young earth vs old earth, creation vs evolution, etc. This is merely looking at the Genesis account of Cain and Seth, and how we might explain their offspring.

You would be correct,God did create more people before Adam

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Genesis 1:27"So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them."

I could go further but the above verse clearly shows that God created male and female at the same time,Adam not to mention Eve,is at this time,not on the scene........

And it's not a theory,it's a fact......

 

[n2thelight]

I don't believe your theory is plausible if you consider Gen 3:20 "and Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of ALL living" (KJV caps mine)

Genesis 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."

Is this going against the idea of God creating all races on the sixth day of creation? Not at all. Satan knew it was through the womb of this woman Eve, and her daughters to come, that the Messiah would drive his [the devil's] head to the pit, and then to ashes; and destroy him. It was woman that Satan wanted to destroy. Therefore through Eve and her daughters down to Mary that would come "Christ."

The word "living" here is looking forward to the Redeemer, Jesus Christ. For if you are not Christ's, then you are not in the "living", but in Satan. Satan is death. Only in Jesus Christ, and in His name can you or any one of any race have eternal life.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Where did their wives come from?

Could God have created them from men's ribs when the men were sleeping, or from some other materials that were available, and simply decided not to elaborate on where their wives came from in Scripture?

 

[westtexas]

She may have been the first living, biological mother to humankind (Cain and Abel), but not necessarily the mother of all humans. Simply put, she was the first woman. Others were created as well, but not talked about because they were not of the Hebrew lineage. The OT is the history, lineage and law for the Hebrews. They have no reason to talk about Asians, Indians, etc. Have to think outside the box!

Where did their wives come from?


Edit: please don't take this the wrong way. I am just trying to get some thought provoking going on.

Not sure what I should take the wrong way. I don't have time to get into a lenghty post tonite but I believe their wives were their sisters and would enjoy a conversation on Gen 3-5 to show you why I believe as I do.

And just for the record: I believe Genesis to be a literal account and that there are not nearly as many stumbling blocks as some would have you to believe.
Until tomorrow. God bless. Looking forward to our conversation.

 

[westtexas]

Hello n2thelight, haven't talked to you in a while. Glad to see you in this thread.

 

[n2thelight]

Hello n2thelight, haven't talked to you in a while. Glad to see you in this thread.

Hello to you as well,Im still around...Happy New Year to ya........

 

[wayseer]

I don't take it literally. If anything, I am the open minded one that is willing to think outside of the box, and look at the bigger picture. I was just interested in the views of others.

Such being the case then one might view Genesis as a story rather than factual.

I have a sense that you are seeking some sort of certainty for your views and that 'thinking outside the box' is a euphemism for looking to explain the inexplicable.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it fall - did the tree fall?

 

[Vanguard]

Such being the case then one might view Genesis as a story rather than factual.

I have a sense that you are seeking some sort of certainty for your views and that 'thinking outside the box' is a euphemism for looking to explain the inexplicable.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it fall - did the tree fall?

Actually I could care less if anyone agrees with me or not. I'm not here to win a popularity contest. What I do is to try and educate people beyond what they are taught in church. I am not saying that their church is wrong, but at the same time their church may not go into great detail on certain subjects, especially if the clergymen don't have any real answers. I grew up as a Southern Baptist and by the time I was 18, I had so many unanswered questions. That's when I started to realize that my singular view was not necessarily the complete view. I needed to become more open minded and study the Bible from multiple aspects.

In short, I try to challenge people to think on a deeper level. You may not ever agree or see things eye to eye, but someone else might...and it might just answer a question that they have had. Having said that, I will never, ever lead someone astray from God.

 

[Grazer]

Great questions. I've asked virtually identical ones myself. Have you read or watched any of Peter Enns work?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[wayseer]

Actually I could care less if anyone agrees with me or not. I'm not here to win a popularity contest. What I do is to try and educate people beyond what they are taught in church. I am not saying that their church is wrong, but at the same time their church may not go into great detail on certain subjects, especially if the clergymen don't have any real answers. I grew up as a Southern Baptist and by the time I was 18, I had so many unanswered questions. That's when I started to realize that my singular view was not necessarily the complete view. I needed to become more open minded and study the Bible from multiple aspects.

Hmmmm ... seems you are are looking for certainty.

In short, I try to challenge people to think on a deeper level. You may not ever agree or see things eye to eye, but someone else might...and it might just answer a question that they have had. Having said that, I will never, ever lead someone astray from God.

I must have missed something - to what 'deeper level' do you wish to descend?

As I asked previously - if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it fall, has it fallen?

What is the extent of knowledge - and how does knowledge justify belief.

I have no knowledge of any tree falling unless I have knowledge of that event. None of us has any knowledge of where the rest of the people originated out of the Genesis account because there is no way you could justify your knowledge of that event - we are simply not told.

We, you, could make up any number of stories to fit the crisis but how could you possibly know that any of them might be true? If you don't know the difference between the true one and the false one you fail the certainty test - you cannot know that which is false.

So, we are back to the tree falling in the forest.

 

[felix]

1. At that time, Genesis only accounts for four people: Adam, Eve, Cain and the now dead Abel. If Cain was to wander the earth, away from Adam and Eve, who did he have to fear?

The clue comes from their profession. Cain was a tiller and Abel was a shepherd. You will not be a tiller nor a shepherd if your family is just 4. For a family of just 4, they will usually be a hunter-gatherer. You go to these profession only when you are required to feed a larger population.

Although the story says only about Cain, Abel and Seth, Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. For example, before even Seth was born, Scripture provides Cain up to 5 generations. This doesn't mean they are all born before Seth, but it simply says the story and completes the story of Cain. If you look at the genealogy at chapter 5, there is no trace of either Cain or Abel but only Seth line and only one member is mentioned.

As I said, you farm a land only (involve in agriculture) when you have a huge population and have a flock only when you have a larger population to support.

2. Furthermore, Cain traveled east of Eden and settled in the land of Nod, taking a wife, and having a son (Enoch). Where did his wife come from?

As I mentioned above, even before Cain killed Abel, the world would be populated with many people from Adam and Eve alone with brothers and sisters marrying each other. Eve simply means mother of all living. Hence, all must have come from Eve.
The wife of Cain would have even be a daughter of unmentioned brother of Cain (grand daughter of Adam) or a sister of Cain.

3. Adam and Eve have only one other account of NAMED offpsring that we know of, and that is Seth [Sheth] who was to replace Abel. Seth had a son (Enosh) but who was his wife?

When Enosh had a child, there were already 325 years passed and Scripture also mentions Adam, Seth and even Cain having children.

From Gen 4:22, people began to have iron and brass tools. If there is just a population of just 20 or 30 in the world, I doubt they would ever required to have iron or brass tools.

Scripture says, Seth was born when Adam was 130 years. In the first 130 years, he had 2 sons namely Cain and Abel. Based on the genealogy, they can have children from 65 years old (e.g, Enoch). Also, Adam and Eve doesn't need to grow and attain puberty. Hence, they had a lot of year nearly 60-100 years (not sure of the time spent in Eden) and there could have been a lot of children before Cain or Abel or Seth.

Another clue comes from Genesis 6.
(Genesis 6:1) Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
(Genesis 6:2) that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they [were] beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Gen 6:1 mentions as though daughters were born to men for the first time, and sons of God were seeing for the first time they are beautiful. I cannot imagine sons of God waiting for nearly 1000 years to realize daughters were being born to men and they happen to be beautiful. I think, sons of God sinned from the very beginning by mating with daughters of men as the verse Gen 6 suggests. Cain could have even be afraid of these nephalims or giants.

 

[Grazer]

I've posted this before but I think its worth posting again as its relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36T3tbygQgA

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[JCitoL]

Cain and Abel, the children of Adam and Eve. Brothers, and the first murder. After Cain killed Abel, God punished Cain by forcing him to walk the earth as a vagrant. Cain was afraid of being killed by whomever he met, so God put a sign [mark] on Cain as a warning to anyone that Cain came across.

cain was the first cleric of unrighteousness

Matthew 23:29-36 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites(i.e. theologians and clerics of unrighteousness)! because ye build the tombs of the prophets(i.e. of the true prophets), and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous(i.e. of the righteous believers), And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers(i.e. of our fathers in faith), we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children(i.e. spiritual followers) of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes(viz. true servants of righteousness in general): and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation(i.e. the generation of the unrighteous spiritual servants)."

Here are my questions for discussion:

1. At that time, Genesis only accounts for four people: Adam, Eve, Cain and the now dead Abel. If Cain was to wander the earth, away from Adam and Eve, who did he have to fear?

he was afraid lest in (the) future someone judge him for the murder of his brother

2. Furthermore, Cain traveled east of Eden and settled in the land of Nod, taking a wife, and having a son (Enoch). Where did his wife come from?

maybe adam and eve had some children who have for some reason(-s) not been shown in the Bible

3. Adam and Eve have only one other account of NAMED offpsring that we know of, and that is Seth [Sheth] who was to replace Abel. Seth had a son (Enosh) but who was his wife?

maybe just another child of adam and eve

My theory is that God created more people than just Adam and Eve during the initial creation, but Genesis of the Torah only speaks of those relevant to the lineage of the Hebrews. It is, after all, an account of Hebrew history and their laws. There are HUGE timegaps in Genesis.

Note: this is NOT a discussion about young earth vs old earth, creation vs evolution, etc. This is merely looking at the Genesis account of Cain and Seth, and how we might explain their offspring.

it is written that the first two humans were adam and eve, and with regard to the wives, in such situation the conception between kinsfolk was accounted for a normal thing - by the way, all we(the people of this planet) are more or less kinsfolk

Blessings

 

[Vanguard]

Hmmmm ... seems you are are looking for certainty.



I must have missed something - to what 'deeper level' do you wish to descend?

As I asked previously - if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it fall, has it fallen?

What is the extent of knowledge - and how does knowledge justify belief.

I have no knowledge of any tree falling unless I have knowledge of that event. So, we are back to the tree falling in the forest.

Dude, seriously...are you going to post ANYTHING relevant to the thread, or are you just going to try and attack me? What does a tree falling have to do with the offspring of Cain and Seth, and how they might have come about? You have yet to post anything that is actually part of the discussion.

totopic