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The Gospel of Thomas

C

ChristineES

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I haven't been able to understand why so many Christians suddenly decided to stop believe that Jesus is God. I found the answer at the library. I found a book written by Elaine Pagels about the secret Gospel of Thomas. She brought up some points I hadn't noticed before (I don't want to really get into it). Do you really take stock in a Gnostic Gospel? Am I coming to the wrong conclusion that you got this belief from this Gospel?
It seems that the Gospel of John and The Gospel of Thomas are at odds with each other a lot of the time. I am now going to find a copy of The Gospel of Thomas and find out what this Gospel says. I can say I am very interested.
 
The gospel of Thomas .... and other fairy stories

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/bible/thomas.htm

Some radical critics of the New Testament claim that the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas is equal or superior to the New Testament and that it does not support the resurrection of Christ. The so-called Jesus Seminar places the Gospel of Thomas in their otherwise severely truncated Bible. Both stances are serious challenges to the historic Christian faith.

The Gospel of Thomas was discovered in Nag Hammadi, Egypt, near Cairo in 1945 and was translated into English in 1977. While some have attempted to date parts of it earlier, the Gospel of Thomas is most reliably dated no earlier than A.D. 140-170. It contains 114 secret sayings of Jesus. Defenders of the Gospel of Thomas include Walter Baur, Frederick Wisse, A. Powell Davies, and Elaine Pagels.

An Evaluation of the Credibility of the Gospel of Thomas

The best way to evaluate the credibility of the Gospel of Thomas is by way of comparison to the New Testament Gospels, which often the same critics have grave doubts about. When this comparison is made, the Gospel of Thomas comes up seriously short: -click here to learn more-

:)

(I would not waste too much time on the "gospel" of Thomas.)
 
ChristineES said:
I haven't been able to understand why so many Christians suddenly decided to stop believe that Jesus is God. I found the answer at the library. I found a book written by Elaine Pagels about the secret Gospel of Thomas. She brought up some points I hadn't noticed before (I don't want to really get into it). Do you really take stock in a Gnostic Gospel? Am I coming to the wrong conclusion that you got this belief from this Gospel?
It seems that the Gospel of John and The Gospel of Thomas are at odds with each other a lot of the time. I am now going to find a copy of The Gospel of Thomas and find out what this Gospel says. I can say I am very interested.

Up till now I have not even considered a 'gospel of Thomas'. I certainly don't know what it contains, nor have I ever felt the need to read it. In fact I have never had any desire to read anything but scripture. My knowledge of Jesus relationship to God comes through revelation to my spirit and it is confirmed by scripture - the one with 66 books.
 
mutzrein said:
My knowledge of Jesus relationship to God comes through revelation to my spirit and it is confirmed by scripture - the one with 66 books.

"Constantine began what was to become a centuries long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible. Through a series of decisions made by the early church leadership, all but 80 of those books, known as the King James Translation of 1611, were purged from the work, with a further reduction by the Protestant Reformation bringing the number to 66 in the "Authorized" King James Bible."

http://www.bibleufo.com/anomlostbooks.htm
 
Reznwerks,

That was one of the poorest efforts at revisionist history I've ever seen. Constantine did not make any kind of statements regarding what was and wasn't scripture. He requested 50 copies of scripture from Eusebius but nowhere is there any indication that he said what was and wasn't in them. If you look at early Christian writiings (pre-constantine) there is little or no indication that any of these gnostic writings were considered scripture. They were not quoted by any of the Church father. Early lists of scripture by Athanasius and others did not include any of them. The canon was first declared by Pope Damasus in the late fourth centruy and Pope Leo in the early 5th Century. The Synod's of Hippo and Carthage in the same time frame ratified this. They included 72 books (one of todays books, I think it was lamentations or Baruch was included in one of these, Jerimiah I think, I would have to go back and check). This canon remaind until the Protestants removed the 7 dueterocanonicals, though the 1611 KJV had them in it but said they were not canonical. Catholic Bible versions today have all 73 as canonical. Protestant versions have the 66 books.
 
mutzrein said:
Thanks reznwerks

I appreciate that as it helps my understanding.

Ed

My advice is you take better care of where you get your understanding. He is way off on his history to the point of being nonsensical.
 
Christine,

I don't think the Gospel of Thomas can account for all those who believe Jesus is not God. In scripture there were those who did not believe that he was and rejected him. It's a humanly logical position that he was just a man. But our revelation is divine and so is he. For he is the word made flesh.
 
You are right, Thess. I just find it hard to believe that anyone would take a Gnostic Gospel and have any belief that it is true. This where that belief that all people are saved comes from (I read further). The woman writing this book seems to believe more of what Thomas says than John! I find that a bit disturbing. I want to read the Gnostic Gospels now so I can gain some understanding into what some believe.
 
I personally find the Gospel of Thomas to be a very inspired gospel, and it much of what it says factors largely in my spirituality. Pagel's book, I thought, was very well written and informative, and I tend to agree with her dating of it (roughly the same time as the Gospel of John as opposed to other scholars who date it earlier than that).

As Pagels points out, it seems that much of what is written in the Gospel of John is written to contrast or actually opposed to the Gospel of Thomas. She notes that each gospel takes a patron apostle, Matthew, Mark and Luke taking Peter, and John's gospel taking the Beloved Apostle, while the Gospel of Thomas obviously taking Thomas.

It is interesting to note that John emphasises the uniquness of Christ, that no other can be as he, and that he alone stands in such a high relation to God, whereas Thomas emphasizes Christ as the expression of the fulfilled human potential, so that all can be as he when they follow the path he has set forth. (which is why Thomas means "twin", as in "we are a twin of Christ"

Note, that John will have Jesus claiming to give the water that will cause one to never thirst, and will well up inside to eternal life, whereas in Thomas' gospel, Jesus claims that anyone who drinks of the bubling spring becomes as He.

Jesus constantly makes the claim in John that "he is the way the truth and the life" whereas, in Thomas, it is not so much Jesus that is the way, but it is Jesus who reveals the way, as it says "he who discovers the interpretation of these words will not taste death"

It seems very likely that the school that wrote the Gospel of John were aware of the Thomistic school of thought, for it is only in John that the disciple Thomas is presented as "doubting Thomas" who must kneel before Christ and say "My Lord and my God". Thus, the authors of John were taking a shot at the Thomistic school of thought by showing their patron apostle to be lacking in understanding, whereas in Thomas, he is shown to be the one who undertands Christ the best.
 
Gospel of Thomas comes up short

An Evaluation of the Credibility of the Gospel of Thomas

The best way to evaluate the credibility of the Gospel of Thomas is by way of comparison to the New Testament Gospels, which often the same critics have grave doubts about. When this comparison is made, the Gospel of Thomas comes up seriously short:

The Canonical Gospels Are Much Earlier. Assuming the widely accepted dates of the Synoptic Gospels (ca. A.D. 0-80), the Gospel of Thomas falls nearly a century short. Indeed, there is evidence of even earlier dates for some Gospels as even some liberal scholars admit (see Robinson, John A., all). O. C. Edwards asserts of the Gospel of Thomas and the canonical Gospels that “As historical reconstructions there is no way the two can claim equal credentials†(27). And Joseph Fitzmyer adds, “Time and again, she is blind to the fact that she is ignoring a good century of Christian existence in which these ‘gnostic Christians’ were simply not around†(123).

The Gospel of Thomas Is Dependent on the Canonical Gospels. Even if the Gospel of Thomas could be shown to contain some authentic statements of Jesus, “no convincing case has been made that any given saying of Jesus in the Gospels depends on a saying in the Gospel of Thomas†(Boyd, 118). Rather, the reverse is true since the Gospel of Thomas presupposes truths found earlier in the canonical Gospels.

The Gospel of Thomas Portrays a Second-Century Gnosticism. The Gospel of Thomas is influenced by the kind of Gnosticism prevalent in the second century. For instance, it puts into the mouth of Jesus these unlikely and demeaning words: “Every woman who will make herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven†(cited by Boyd, 118).

The Gospel of Thomas’s Lack of Narrative Does Not Prove Jesus Did No Miracles. The fact that the author(s) of the Gospel of Thomas did not include narratives of Jesus does not mean they disbelieved in Jesus’ miracles. The book seems to be a collection of Jesus’ sayings rather than his deeds.

The Canonical Gospels Are More Historically Trustworthy. There are numerous reasons why the New Testament Gospels are more trustworthy than the Gnostic ones. First, the earliest Christians were meticulous in preserving Jesus’ words and deeds. Second, the Gospel writers were close to the eyewitnesses and pursued the facts (Luke 1:1-4). Third, there is good evidence that the Gospel writers were honest reporters. Fourth, the overall picture of Jesus presented in the Gospels is the same.

The Basic New Testament Canon Was Formed in the First Century. Contrary to claims of the critics, the basic New Testament canon was formed in the first century. The only books in dispute have no apologetic effect on the argument for the reliability of the historical material used to establish the deity of Christ.

The New Testament itself reveals that a collection of books existed in the first century. Peter speaks of having Paul’s epistles (2 Peter 3:15-16). In fact, he considered them on a par with Old Testament “Scripture.†Paul had access to Luke’s Gospel, and quotes it in 1 Timothy 5:18. The churches were instructed to send their epistle on to other churches (Col. 4:16).

Beyond the New Testament, there are extrabiblical canonical lists that support the existence of a New Testament canon (see Geisler and Nix, 294). Indeed, all the Gospels and Paul’s basic epistles are represented on these lists. Even the heretical canon of the Gnostic Marcion (ca. AD. 140) had the Gospel of Luke and ten of Paul’s epistles, including 1 Corinthians.

The Second-Century Fathers Support the Canonical Gospels. The second-century Fathers cited a common body of books. This includes all the crucial books that support the historicity of Christ and his resurrection, namely, the 4 Gospels, Acts, and 1 Corinthians. Clement of Roman (AD. 95) cited the Gospels (Corinthians, 13, 42, 46). Ignatius (ca. 110-115) cited Luke 24:39 (Smyrnaeans 3). Polycarp (ca. 115) cited all the Synoptic Gospels (Philippians 2, 7). The Didache often cites the Synoptic Gospels (1, 3, 8, 9, 15-16). The Epistle of Barnabas (ca. 135) cites Matthew 22:14. Papias (ca. 125-140) in the Oracles speaks of Matthew, Mark (following Peter), and John (last) who wrote Gospels. He says three times that Mark made no errors. What is more, the Fathers considered the Gospels and Paul’s epistles to be on a par with the inspired Old Testament.
Thus the Fathers vouched for the accuracy of the canonical Gospels in the early second century, well before the Gospel of Thomas was even written.

The Resurrection Account. The Gospel of Thomas does acknowledge Jesus’ resurrection. In fact, the living, resurrected Christ himself speaks in it (34:25-27; 45:1-16). True, it does not stress the resurrection, but this is to be expected since it is primarily a sayings source rather than historical narration. Furthermore, the Gnostic theological bias against matter would downplay the bodily resurrection.

Conclusion

The evidence for the authenticity of the Gospel of Thomas does not even compare with that for the New Testament. The New Testament dates from the first century; the Gospel of Thomas, the second. The New Testament is verified by many lines of evidence, including self-references, early canonical lists, thousands of citations by the early Fathers, and the well-established dates for the Synoptic Gospels.

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/bible/thomas.htm

:)
 
helps

thessalonian said:
Reznwerks,

That was one of the poorest efforts at revisionist history I've ever seen. .
See if this one is a little better.
"In 313, Emperor Constantine and his co-emperor Lucinius sent a series of rather flowery letters to their governors, in which they said it was "salutory and most proper" that "complete toleration" be given to anyone who has "given up his mind to the cult of the Christians" or any other cult which "he personally feels best for himself."
http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm

On the link you can start reading from 313 c.e. forward.
 
There is a problem that is now arising. The Catholic Church hid or eliminated many inspired works of God, which are just now re-emerging on the Internet. Among the inspired works they eliminated were many early Gnostic works. Early Church Gnostic works are essentially teachings Christ gave to His disciples in private, which explained the mysteries of the creation. That is all they are. There is no discord between genuine Gnostic works like those found in the Nag Hammadi Library, and things that are written in the Bible. The fact of the matter is that the Catholic Church, for its own short-sighted, selfish, and foolish reasons, acted to conceal the truth about humanity: that we are all seeds of God; that we must join (via genuine faith) with divine angels (referred to as the Holy Spirit in the Bible); and rejoin the Godhead which is actually made up of countless Gods, who form a single union and are hence referred to as one. Humanity for all intents and purposes is among the highest forms of God, whose souls have been trapped in bodies that: force us to sin; be lowered and disgraced; and be ignorant of ourselves and our world. Only those among us who have real faith (which will be a tiny fraction of the Church and all humanity) will be empowered by God’s angels to overcome our adversaries, and return to our Father to be co-rulers and co-creators, when He expands creation, many, many times larger than it is today.

It is important to realize that the Catholic Church deliberately eliminated scriptures to give the impression that the route to salvation is by following the law. But even when someone has faith correctly, that person is able to see past the deception and realize that only by the power of God (which is availed to someone only through the correct practice of having faith) can someone overcome his adversaries who work tirelessly to cause him to sin. In short, you have all been duped by the Catholic Church to think that only the scriptures in the Bible have been inspired by God, and you have been cheated out of the knowledge of who you are, and a clearer understanding of the path to salvation.
 
C'mon folks - saying something helps my understanding does not mean that I accept or adopt that something. I learned something. That's all.

And I don't need to chase around looking for the truth in books as many would seem to want to do - because the Truth is within me.
 
mutzrein said:
And I don't need to chase around looking for the truth in books as many would seem to want to do - because the Truth is within me.
The truth can only exist in you by your having faith correctly – not just any way you please. Because it is only when you have faith correctly, that the Holy Spirit enters you and teaches you the truth. An important method God uses to show you the truth is by influencing you to look at works inspired by Him. You will be able to distinguish works inspired by God from works not inspired by Him by noting details in the works that you have identified to be true by your own observations of things in life while having faith, and the consistency of those works with other works otherwise known to be inspired by God. Anyone who has considerable faith would never be satisfied with just the books in the Bible. He would want to know the mysteries of his existence and creation – which the Holy Spirit would push him to pursue in various places.
 
PDoug said:
mutzrein said:
And I don't need to chase around looking for the truth in books as many would seem to want to do - because the Truth is within me.
The truth can only exist in you by your having faith correctly – not just any way you please. Because it is only when you have faith correctly, that the Holy Spirit enters you and teaches you the truth. An important method God uses to show you the truth is by influencing you to look at works inspired by Him. You will be able to distinguish works inspired by God from works not inspired by Him by noting details in the works that you have identified to be true by your own observations of things in life while having faith, and the consistency of those works with other works otherwise known to be inspired by God. Anyone who has considerable faith would never be satisfied with just the books in the Bible. He would want to know the mysteries of his existence and creation – which the Holy Spirit would push him to pursue in various places.

My faith is in Christ, the son of the living God who has given me His Spirit. The works that I do are the result of the Spirit that dwells within me. They are consistent with the being in Christ who is the vine, although I humbly acknowledge that I cannot achieve anything without Him.

My only passion is TRUTH as it is in Christ alone - NOT in the pursuit the doctrines or works of man.
 
My faith is in Christ, the son of the living God who has given me His Spirit.

What specific steps do you take to have faith in God? I.e. how specifically do you have faith in Christ?
 
The Gospel of Thomas Portrays a Second-Century Gnosticism. The Gospel of Thomas is influenced by the kind of Gnosticism prevalent in the second century. For instance, it puts into the mouth of Jesus these unlikely and demeaning words: “Every woman who will make herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven†(cited by Boyd, 118).

Actually Gary,

The Gospel of Thomas containts little of what traits mark second century Gnosticism. Thomas is devoid of the complex mythology, the archons, the pleroma, the demiurgos, and other ideas that are central to Gnostic philosophy, which suggests a much earlier date.
 
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