The Holy Spirit

[Georges]

Make a selection and opine......evidence, scripture, or feeling.

Some questions to consider.....

Please quote, copy and answer the above questions. I'm very interested the the range of opinions hopefully this will generate.

What is a Spirit?

What is Spirit? Are they the same?

What is the Spirit in Man? Are there multiple definition's for Spirit?

Is the Spirit of Man an aura that surrounds him and departs as a Ghost like presence upon death?

Is the Spirit of Man that which makes him live (that power spark of life) and gives him the will to live?

What does it mean if some says "He's got a strong spirit"? Does that mean his Ghost is strong?

Does God have more than 1 Spirit?

If so how many?

Can someone's Ghost "Groaneth" in anguish?

Can Someone's spirit (mind and will) "Groaneth" in anguish?

Is that part of a person's spirit that can "Groan in anguish" be a separate being of that person?

If the concept of the Holy Spirit (Holy Wind, Spark of Life) is different in Judaism than Christianity, where did the Spirit as a Ghostly entity originate? Neoplatonism?



Please quote, copy and answer the above questions. I'm very interested the the range of opinions hopefully this will generate.

 

[Darrell dunn]

The spirit is the life force of man, which a piece of the energy of God.

God is a total of all energy.

And everything had to start with God.

The life force of God is energy, and that is spirit.But there is more to God than this. He is light, He is love,

It has been said that He created the universe out of nothing, this is not so.
It is all a part of Him.

The way that I learned this is I asked God.

Now I have a clear picture of it in my head, but putting it in print is something deferent and next to impossible.

 

[yesha]

Even in English the word has many meanings, but if one were to try and take into account the words translated to the English word spirit, then we have a very large and complecated study ahead. So I'll just focus on what I think you are trying to discuss.

from dictionary.com
n.

1.
1. The vital principle or animating force within living beings.
2. Incorporeal consciousness.
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
3. Spirit The Holy Spirit.
4. A supernatural being, as:
1. An angel or a demon.
2. A being inhabiting or embodying a particular place, object, or natural phenomenon.
3. A fairy or sprite.
5.
1. The part of a human associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit.
2. The essential nature of a person or group.
6. A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.
7.
1. An inclination or tendency of a specified kind: Her actions show a generous spirit.
2. A causative, activating, or essential principle: The couple's engagement was announced in a joyous spirit.
8. spirits A mood or an emotional state: The guests were in high spirits. His sour spirits put a damper on the gathering.
9. A particular mood or an emotional state characterized by vigor and animation: sang with spirit.
10. Strong loyalty or dedication: team spirit.
11. The predominant mood of an occasion or a period: “The spirit of 1776 is not dead†(Thomas Jefferson).
12. The actual though unstated sense or significance of something: the spirit of the law.
13. An alcohol solution of an essential or volatile substance. Often used in the plural with a singular verb.
14. spirits An alcoholic beverage, especially distilled liquor.


What is a Spirit?

#4

What is Spirit? Are they the same?

#1

Not exactly.

What is the Spirit in Man? Are there multiple definition's for Spirit?

numerous definitions, such as #1, 2, 5, ect...

Is the Spirit of Man an aura that surrounds him and departs as a Ghost like presence upon death?

One could think like this, see #2.

Is the Spirit of Man that which makes him live (that power spark of life) and gives him the will to live?

#1

What does it mean if some says "He's got a strong spirit"? Does that mean his Ghost is strong?

#7 and others.

Does God have more than 1 Spirit?

sure.

If so how many?

As many as he wills, I suppose.

Can someone's Ghost "Groaneth" in anguish?

I suppose.

Can Someone's spirit (mind and will) "Groaneth" in anguish?

I suppose. But I'm think of the same thing as the previous question.

Is that part of a person's spirit that can "Groan in anguish" be a separate being of that person?

no.

If the concept of the Holy Spirit (Holy Wind, Spark of Life) is different in Judaism than Christianity, where did the Spirit as a Ghostly entity originate? Neoplatonism?

I'm not aware of the Holy Spirit being called a Ghostly entity by anyone. KJV?

 

[Free]

I didn't vote since I believe the answer is a combination of the two, analogy to Casper aside of course. The Holy Spirit is the essence of God, the divine Love that flows from the Father to the Son and Son to the Father, but is very much God Himself.

"Ghost" in the KJV doesn't mean that God is some sort of ghostly figure. It is simply a poorer choice of word than "Spirit", but means the same.

 

[Henry]

I did not vote because the options did not include what I know to be true, and the word casper, please why such disrespect for the Lord?

The Holy Spirit is God, simple as that.

 

[wavy]

Part 1: http://yourarmstoisrael.org/Articles_ne ... ge=what_is


Part 2: http://yourarmstoisrael.org/Articles_ne ... hHaKadosh2

Who/What is the Ruach KaKodesh?


Luka 7:35 Who is the Ruach haKadosh (The Holy Spirit)? Is the Ruach a force only? Or an inanimate object? Or a living conscious being - the 3rd expression of a triune Elohim? But what kind of an expression?

The Hebrew presents the Ruach in feminine tense, and with female characteristics; but the Greek refers to the Ruach as "He". Which is the more accurate description? And what role has the Ruach played in the creation of the earth, and in the lives of Torah obedient believers today?

Wisdom is justified of Her Children, Luka 7:35 We have the Father, and the Son, but where’s Mom?

In Jewish thought and literature, as well as in the nuances of the Hebrew language itself, is revealed an understanding of the personage and character of the Ruach HaKadosh that has for the most part been lost through translation and introduction of pagan influences into the assembly. Lost to everybody, that is, except the Jews and others learned in the Torah, and in the Hebrew language of Scripture.

The Ruach is simply the femine manifestation of YHWH!

 

[Dave...]

I couldn't vote. The Holy Spirit is a person, the third person of the trinity.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/0004.htm

 

[wavy]

I do not believe in the Trinity because I am not required to by scripture and the logic for it is flawed imo. You are condemned as a heretic for not accepting it (although the bible does not agree) and yet, at the same time, it's a "mystery" that no one can truly understand... :roll:

It's mental gymnastics imho. Three distinct persons; none are the other. They are fully "God". And yet they are not three gods but one God. So you have three persons all distinct and all fully God individually, but the distinction stops with "person" and not "god"??? And the reason for this is?

It's a mystery. Perhaps, in truth, the scripture should have been re-assessed. But instead it has spread down from centuries past.

You have three faces on one side of the trinity coin, and one face on the other side. But who is it on the latter side? Mystery...

 

[Georges]

I did not vote because the options did not include what I know to be true, and the word casper, please why such disrespect for the Lord?

The Holy Spirit is God, simple as that.

Henry,

No it's not as simple as that. The trinity is the most heated debate in Christianity past, and was just a whisker away from being theologically dropped.

I understand the gravity of your statement and should have been more sensitive to my fellow forumites. However, I wanted to make the visual point of what a Ghost is.....Is the Holy Spirit a Spirit entity....something without form, or is it an animating force (a telekinetic force of some kind, coming from God)?

I'm not disrespecting God as personally I think the Holy Spirit is nothing more than the essence and power of God and not a person. That is not disrespecting God, that is honoring him by not dividing him into 3 separate parts......I believe the Holy Spirit it to be a 7 fold spirit that's description is found in Isa 11:2.

 

[Solo]

The answers did not give way for the truth of God to be expressed. If the Holy Spirit's name is Casper, that answer was the closest as He is God and not just a poof as some imagine.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18-20

"Spell this out in capital letters: THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON. He is not enthusiasm. He is not courage. He is not energy. He is not the personification of all good qualities, like Jack Frost is the personification of cold weather. Actually, the Holy Spirit is not the personification of anything...... He has individuality. He is one being and not another. He has will and intelligence. He has hearing. He has knowledge and sympathy and ability to love and see and think. He can hear, speak, desire, grieve and rejoice. He is a Person." A W Tozer, The Counselor


Question: "Who is the Holy Spirit?â€Â

Answer: There are many misconceptions on the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put - the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a Person, a Being with a mind, emotions, and a will.

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.†It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the attributes or characteristics of God. For example the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent is seen in Psalm 139:7-8 “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.†Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10 we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. “But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.â€Â

We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third “Person†of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16,26; 15:26).

Retrieved from http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Holy-Spirit.html

 

[cj]

What is a Spirit?

Firstly,.... its either "a spirit" or "the Spirit".

The Spirit is God, whereas a spirit can refer to the deepest part of a person's being, or disembodied evil/unclean demons from the pre-Adamic age.

What is Spirit? Are they the same?

Spirit and spirit are not the same.

What is the Spirit in Man?

The Spirit in a man is God in a man. The spirit in man is the deepest aspect of a man's being.

Are there multiple definition's for Spirit?

There is the Holy Spirit, and then there is the Spirit of Christ. the life-giving Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is God pre-crucifiction/resurrection/ascension of Christ. The Spirit of Christ/the life-giving Spirit is post-crucifiction/resurrection/ascension of Christ.

Is the Spirit of Man an aura that surrounds him and departs as a Ghost like presence upon death?

No. The spirit of a man is an organ, the third aspect of man's tripartite being, and it is the deepest/core part of a man.

Is the Spirit of Man that which makes him live (that power spark of life) and gives him the will to live?

God is life, and only God gives life. The spirit of a man is an organ to contain God in man, and thus contain God as life in man.

What does it mean if some says "He's got a strong spirit"? Does that mean his Ghost is strong?

It means that a man is abiding in God and thus God has a way to abide in him. And God is as strong as strong gets.

Does God have more than 1 Spirit?

God is Spirit.

If so how many?

Again, God is Spirit.

Can someone's Ghost "Groaneth" in anguish?

A person is only one, therefore it is the person that groans.

Can Someone's spirit (mind and will) "Groaneth" in anguish?

A person's spirit is not the mind and will; the mind and will of a person are two parts of the three-part soul of a person (emotion being the third part).

A person can certainly groan out of their soul, sometimes its referred to by God as murmuring.

Is that part of a person's spirit that can "Groan in anguish" be a separate being of that person?

The body, soul, and spirit of a person are all just organs that together make up the one person.

If the concept of the Holy Spirit (Holy Wind, Spark of Life) is different in Judaism than Christianity, where did the Spirit as a Ghostly entity originate? Neoplatonism?.

Judaism sees the Spirit of God as a sort of finger, an extension of God that does the work of God. Jews do not see the Spirit as a "third person" of a triune God. Jews see God as biune in nature.

Neoplatonism is a system of philosophical and theological doctrines composed of elements of Platonism and Aristotelianism and oriental mysticism; its most distinctive doctrine holds that the first principle and source of reality transcends being and thought and is naturally unknowable. Neoplatonism was predominant in pagan Europe until the 6th century, and was a major influence on early Christian writers and on later medieval and Renaissance thought and on Islamic philosophy.

Jesus tells us that a tree is known by its fruit, therefore to be clear about Neoplatonism one must understand/see the fruit of it first.

.... "Neoplatonism was the last of the great schools of Classical pagan philosophy.  A synthesis of Platonism, Aristotlism, Stoicism, and Pythagoreanism, which provided an esoteric interpretation of classical Greek Paganism, it incorporated philosophy, mysticism, theosophy, and theurgy (higher occultism).  For three centuries it served as a last bastion of Pagan wisdom and Esoteric philosophy in an increasingly hostile Christian dominated empire.   Even after the light of Classical Learning was extinguished, the Neoplatonic current remained, undergoing new metamorphoses, in Christian Mysticism, Islamic Philosophy, Ishraqi and Sufi Esotericism, and Judaic Kabbalah.  Now with the decline of materialistic scepticism and religious intolerance, and the rise of diversity and multiplicity in the new information-rich society, may the light of Neoplatonism shine once more!"

The above is taken from a metaphysics website.

Be clear, any human thing that is unGodly (not of God) is pagan (corrupted and wicked).


In love,
cj

 

[Georges]

Uh....I hate to mention this Solo, but the 2 verses that mention Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (one of them being Mat 28:19, the other is known as the Johanine comma) are not in the original scripture, and have been added in a later date. Not many people like to hear that the scripture has been edited, but it's a sad truth. It rocked my little happy world until I reserach it...then I had to re evaluate the trinity belief that I held so long.


Having said that,

In Revelation we have 2 verses that mention the 7 spirits of God. Am I unstand that there are 7 different Holy Spirit persons now? I thought there where only 1?

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.



Compare to:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


7 spirits and the description of each facet....not 7 persons......

THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD is the (Ruwah-Pneuma) energizing source of life and the power of God. He is one with the children of God, working in us and through us. He is both the anointing and the source of the anointing. It is through this power source that God's life begins working is us but actually creates the very life of God Himself within us.

THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM (Chokmah-Sophia) is the supernatural intelligence of God which consists of true and right discernment between good and evil and releases direction and a course of action dictated by that discernment (1Kings 3:9,28). The Spirit of Wisdom is the essence of all of God's thoughts. It has been given us to know the wisdom of God (1Cor. 2:7-9) but it remains hidden from the world. James told us in James 1:5-6 that if we would ask, God's wisdom would be given us.

THE SPIRIT OF UNDERSTANDING (Binah-Sunesis) is a perception, comprehension, and knowing released through revelation. He is God's illuminations and insights released through the revelation of His word. Wisdom and understanding brings life to our soul (Proverbs 3:21-22) and helps to keep us from falling (Proverbs 2:1-5 & Jeremiah 25:10-11

THE SPIRIT OF COUNSEL (Esa-Boulomai) is God's advocacy, direction, and instruction concerning life and daily living. It is our advocate that points the way in which we are to go and instructs us in how to arrive there. "My ways are not your ways, and your thoughts are not my thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9). We can freely seek His counsel with the confidence that He will not withhold from us. It is only when we seek our own way or make decisions concerning our lives without consulting Him, that we find situations in our lives goes wrong way. We are assured of His answering us (Hebrews 10:35-36 & Matt. 7:7-8).

THE SPIRIT OF MIGHT (Gibbor-Kratos) is God's supernatural ability and power to achieve the thoughts and intents of His will. This ability has been given the church to enable them to OVERCOME. Overcoming is the freedom from self (John 8:31-32,34-36). It is this power and ability in us that enables us to 'put off' the habits of our flesh and crucify it with its passions and to put on Christ (1Cor. 7:37 & Gal. 5:13,16). God's might is the activation process which gives us the power to carry out His will (Isa. 46:10-11 & Psalm 18:32).

THE SPIRIT OF KNOWLEDGE (Daath-Oida) is God's intuitive, cognitive power which possesses everything that God knows. The Spirit of Knowledge brings us His ability to perceive and know truth. Israel knew the acts of God, but Moses knew His ways. Worldly knowledge (Ginosko) causes us to know something by what we have learned, experienced, seen or come to know through our own efforts (John 17:3), but this is only beginning knowledge. But Godly knowledge (Oida) comes through revelation and gives us the ability to know without effort. This is fullness of knowledge (John 5:20) that the Father gave to Jesus. And we too are His sons and He will show us all things also. It is important that we remain not in the beginnings that God has brought us to, but rather we are to go on into 'intimate' knowledge of Him.

THE SPIRIT OF THE FEAR OF THE LORD is the Spirit of holy reverence and respect to the awesomeness and majesty of God. The fear of the Lord will cause us to hate sin but love the sinner and to understand that it is by the grace of God that we have entered the kingdom. It will cause us to walk in love and truth (2Cor. 10:11; 3John 3). We are to glorify God in our living.



Also, in Revelation (the only book given a stern warning concerning editing of it) God Christ and the Holy Ghost are not mention together.....

 

[Heidi]

The spirit is the life force of man, which a piece of the energy of God.

God is a total of all energy.

And everything had to start with God.

The life force of God is energy, and that is spirit.But there is more to God than this. He is light, He is love,

It has been said that He created the universe out of nothing, this is not so.
It is all a part of Him.

The way that I learned this is I asked God.

Now I have a clear picture of it in my head, but putting it in print is something deferent and next to impossible.

Sorry, but the Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost of Christ, which the bible tells us repeatedly. That is also why God did not pour it freely out to the world until Jesus died. As Paul tells those who have received the Holy Spirit; "Do you not know that you have Christ Jesus living in you?"

 

[cj]

Uh....I hate to mention this Solo, but the 2 verses that mention Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (one of them being Mat 28:19, the other is known as the Johanine comma) are not in the original scripture, and have been added in a later date. Not many people like to hear that the scripture has been edited, but it's a sad truth. It rocked my little happy world until I reserach it...then I had to re evaluate the trinity belief that I held so long.

What's your point?

Having said that,

In Revelation we have 2 verses that mention the 7 spirits of God. Am I unstand that there are 7 different Holy Spirit persons now? I thought there where only 1?

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

What do you know about the lampstand of God?

what do you know about the biblical meaning of the number "7"?

These 7 Spirits are referred to as 7 eyes of God, can you find scriptures that is related? Try Zech 4.

Consider also why the lampstand of God had seven lamps and not just one lamp.

And, also consider why the seven lamps were still consider just one lamp.

Compare to:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


7 spirits and the description of each facet....not 7 persons......

Absolutely. But note it still defines these facets as... the Spirit.

THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD is the (Ruwah-Pneuma) energizing source of life and the power of God. He is one with the children of God, working in us and through us. He is both the anointing and the source of the anointing. It is through this power source that God's life begins working is us but actually creates the very life of God Himself within us.

THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM (Chokmah-Sophia) is the supernatural intelligence of God which consists of true and right discernment between good and evil and releases direction and a course of action dictated by that discernment (1Kings 3:9,28). The Spirit of Wisdom is the essence of all of God's thoughts. It has been given us to know the wisdom of God (1Cor. 2:7-9) but it remains hidden from the world. James told us in James 1:5-6 that if we would ask, God's wisdom would be given us.

THE SPIRIT OF UNDERSTANDING (Binah-Sunesis) is a perception, comprehension, and knowing released through revelation. He is God's illuminations and insights released through the revelation of His word. Wisdom and understanding brings life to our soul (Proverbs 3:21-22) and helps to keep us from falling (Proverbs 2:1-5 & Jeremiah 25:10-11

THE SPIRIT OF COUNSEL (Esa-Boulomai) is God's advocacy, direction, and instruction concerning life and daily living. It is our advocate that points the way in which we are to go and instructs us in how to arrive there. "My ways are not your ways, and your thoughts are not my thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9). We can freely seek His counsel with the confidence that He will not withhold from us. It is only when we seek our own way or make decisions concerning our lives without consulting Him, that we find situations in our lives goes wrong way. We are assured of His answering us (Hebrews 10:35-36 & Matt. 7:7-8).

THE SPIRIT OF MIGHT (Gibbor-Kratos) is God's supernatural ability and power to achieve the thoughts and intents of His will. This ability has been given the church to enable them to OVERCOME. Overcoming is the freedom from self (John 8:31-32,34-36). It is this power and ability in us that enables us to 'put off' the habits of our flesh and crucify it with its passions and to put on Christ (1Cor. 7:37 & Gal. 5:13,16). God's might is the activation process which gives us the power to carry out His will (Isa. 46:10-11 & Psalm 18:32).

THE SPIRIT OF KNOWLEDGE (Daath-Oida) is God's intuitive, cognitive power which possesses everything that God knows. The Spirit of Knowledge brings us His ability to perceive and know truth. Israel knew the acts of God, but Moses knew His ways. Worldly knowledge (Ginosko) causes us to know something by what we have learned, experienced, seen or come to know through our own efforts (John 17:3), but this is only beginning knowledge. But Godly knowledge (Oida) comes through revelation and gives us the ability to know without effort. This is fullness of knowledge (John 5:20) that the Father gave to Jesus. And we too are His sons and He will show us all things also. It is important that we remain not in the beginnings that God has brought us to, but rather we are to go on into 'intimate' knowledge of Him.

THE SPIRIT OF THE FEAR OF THE LORD is the Spirit of holy reverence and respect to the awesomeness and majesty of God. The fear of the Lord will cause us to hate sin but love the sinner and to understand that it is by the grace of God that we have entered the kingdom. It will cause us to walk in love and truth (2Cor. 10:11; 3John 3). We are to glorify God in our living.

Although the above definitions are not complete, what you descriobe above is not different Spirits, but just different aspects of one Spirit.

Also, in Revelation (the only book given a stern warning concerning editing of it) God Christ and the Holy Ghost are not mention together.....

Actually, they are.

Revelation  1 : 4, "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace to you and peace..... from Him who is and who was and who is coming (God the Father), and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne (the intensified Holy Spirit), and from Jesus Christ (the Son), the faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth...... To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood and made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father, to Him be the glory and the might forever and ever. Amen."


The interesting thing seen in the scripture above is that unlike in other earlier scriptures, in these the Holy Spirit is mentioned in order.... before the Son.

I.E., the Father, the Spirit, the Son,..... and not the Father, the Son, the Spirit.

Any thoughts on why?


In love,
cj

 

[GundamZero]

In Genesis, at the very beginning, the LORD says, "Let US make man in his own image."

When God approaches Abraham, he Appears to him in three persons as three man.

In Exodus, God said that His Messenger (traditionally rendered "angel") would lead Israel through the desert. He siad they are to listen to him because His name is in him.

Jesus, when he was talking to his disciples told them that he was leaving, but he would send another counselor to them.

These instances clearly indicate the existance of an entity that carries the attributes and the authority of God. His name is rendered in scriptures as the Holy Spirit.

Listen, the trinity was a hot topic inthe church through the years. However, scripture fuly supports three persons of the God Head.

Think of it this way, if you wil allow me to curedly assign God to our understanding. God is three whos and one what.

Sooo

Hear oh friends, the Lord, the Lord of Hosts, is one LORD, you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

 

[wavy]

In Genesis, at the very beginning, the LORD says, "Let US make man in his own image."

Referring to the plurality of Yahweh. This scripture is overused to support the trinity. Actually, based on recent "revelation" I guess you could call it, I believe he is speaking of the qualities of himself which include his Spirit.

I always just overlooked the next verse, but based on the clear proof of the Spirit being the "feminine manifestation of YHWH", the next verse makes sense:

Genesis 1:27 So Elohim created man in his own image, in the image of Elohim created he him; male and female created he them.

When God approaches Abraham, he Appears to him in three persons as three man.

This is also overused to support the trinity...

These instances clearly indicate the existance of an entity that carries the attributes and the authority of God. His name is rendered in scriptures as the Holy Spirit.

Not near. This is superimposition.

Listen, the trinity was a hot topic inthe church through the years. However, scripture fuly supports three persons of the God Head.

I think the arguments are weak. Seeing the word "God" in the context of the Spirit in Acts, for example, as Solo points out on the other page, does not near support a "third person" separate entity "spirit" that is apart from and independent of Yahweh the Father.

Think of it this way, if you wil allow me to curedly assign God to our understanding. God is three whos and one what.

My dad said this to me once (some one did if it wasn't him). I think this (and this is only my opinion, no offense to you) is silly.

"God" as a collective "three persons/whos" is a "what"? What is the source of these three "persons"? Where do they spawn from? The three together make "God", and yet are distinct and all individually "God" and yet not three gods but one and yet three? Why are they not, as one God, each 1/3 of this "what" called "God"? How do we come to stopping the distinction at "person" and not "God"? The real God that seems to be served is an invisible entity that hides behind three faces and is called "substance" (since trinitarians justify the whole three person thing based on the idea of this whole "substance" thing). Just mental gymastics in my opinion. All the attempts to explain it are futile, since the final argument usually ends up being, as I said earlier, "it's a mystery".

 

[Georges]

Uh....I hate to mention this Solo, but the 2 verses that mention Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (one of them being Mat 28:19, the other is known as the Johanine comma) are not in the original scripture, and have been added in a later date. Not many people like to hear that the scripture has been edited, but it's a sad truth. It rocked my little happy world until I reserach it...then I had to re evaluate the trinity belief that I held so long.

What's your point?

My point to solo was in reference to his post to the Holy Ghost being the 3rd part of a trinity. My point was that the only 2 trinity verses found in the bible are known additions, that's the point....trinitarians edited the bible to fit their adgenda.

Having said that,

In Revelation we have 2 verses that mention the 7 spirits of God. Am I unstand that there are 7 different Holy Spirit persons now? I thought there where only 1?

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

What do you know about the lampstand of God?

I know what the Menorah is......

what do you know about the biblical meaning of the number "7"?

I know perfectly well that the number 7 represents completeness...

These 7 Spirits are referred to as 7 eyes of God, can you find scriptures that is related? Try Zech 4.

CJ...7 Spirits are 7 Spirits.

Consider also why the lampstand of God had seven lamps and not just one lamp.

I know perfectly well why a Menorah has 7 lampstands.....but a little tidbit for the other posters......The Menorah is seen in Judaism as representing the 7 days of Creation and 7000 years of man's lease on earth. The center Lamp is known as the Servant lamp, because it's oil supply feeds the rest of the lamps. Also, it is the 4th in line. What does that mean..? amongst other things, Messiah (the servant) came in the 4 Thousandth year.


And, also consider why the seven lamps were still consider just one lamp.

This is considered 1 lamp with 7 components.

Compare to:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


7 spirits and the description of each facet....not 7 persons......

Absolutely. But note it still defines these facets as... the Spirit.

Note....they do not represent a person......but rather attributes of God.

THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD is the (Ruwah-Pneuma) energizing source of life and the power of God. He is one with the children of God, working in us and through us. He is both the anointing and the source of the anointing. It is through this power source that God's life begins working is us but actually creates the very life of God Himself within us.

THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM (Chokmah-Sophia) is the supernatural intelligence of God which consists of true and right discernment between good and evil and releases direction and a course of action dictated by that discernment (1Kings 3:9,28). The Spirit of Wisdom is the essence of all of God's thoughts. It has been given us to know the wisdom of God (1Cor. 2:7-9) but it remains hidden from the world. James told us in James 1:5-6 that if we would ask, God's wisdom would be given us.

THE SPIRIT OF UNDERSTANDING (Binah-Sunesis) is a perception, comprehension, and knowing released through revelation. He is God's illuminations and insights released through the revelation of His word. Wisdom and understanding brings life to our soul (Proverbs 3:21-22) and helps to keep us from falling (Proverbs 2:1-5 & Jeremiah 25:10-11

THE SPIRIT OF COUNSEL (Esa-Boulomai) is God's advocacy, direction, and instruction concerning life and daily living. It is our advocate that points the way in which we are to go and instructs us in how to arrive there. "My ways are not your ways, and your thoughts are not my thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9). We can freely seek His counsel with the confidence that He will not withhold from us. It is only when we seek our own way or make decisions concerning our lives without consulting Him, that we find situations in our lives goes wrong way. We are assured of His answering us (Hebrews 10:35-36 & Matt. 7:7-8).

THE SPIRIT OF MIGHT (Gibbor-Kratos) is God's supernatural ability and power to achieve the thoughts and intents of His will. This ability has been given the church to enable them to OVERCOME. Overcoming is the freedom from self (John 8:31-32,34-36). It is this power and ability in us that enables us to 'put off' the habits of our flesh and crucify it with its passions and to put on Christ (1Cor. 7:37 & Gal. 5:13,16). God's might is the activation process which gives us the power to carry out His will (Isa. 46:10-11 & Psalm 18:32).

THE SPIRIT OF KNOWLEDGE (Daath-Oida) is God's intuitive, cognitive power which possesses everything that God knows. The Spirit of Knowledge brings us His ability to perceive and know truth. Israel knew the acts of God, but Moses knew His ways. Worldly knowledge (Ginosko) causes us to know something by what we have learned, experienced, seen or come to know through our own efforts (John 17:3), but this is only beginning knowledge. But Godly knowledge (Oida) comes through revelation and gives us the ability to know without effort. This is fullness of knowledge (John 5:20) that the Father gave to Jesus. And we too are His sons and He will show us all things also. It is important that we remain not in the beginnings that God has brought us to, but rather we are to go on into 'intimate' knowledge of Him.

THE SPIRIT OF THE FEAR OF THE LORD is the Spirit of holy reverence and respect to the awesomeness and majesty of God. The fear of the Lord will cause us to hate sin but love the sinner and to understand that it is by the grace of God that we have entered the kingdom. It will cause us to walk in love and truth (2Cor. 10:11; 3John 3). We are to glorify God in our living.

Although the above definitions are not complete, what you descriobe above is not different Spirits, but just different aspects of one Spirit.

Agreed.......again not a person, but attributes of God.

Also, in Revelation (the only book given a stern warning concerning editing of it) God Christ and the Holy Ghost are not mention together.....

Actually, they are.

Revelation  1 : 4, "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace to you and peace..... from Him who is and who was and who is coming (God the Father), and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne (the intensified Holy Spirit), and from Jesus Christ (the Son), the faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth...... To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood and made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father, to Him be the glory and the might forever and ever. Amen."

The interesting thing seen in the scripture above is that unlike in other earlier scriptures, in these the Holy Spirit is mentioned in order.... before the Son.

Interesting observation......as if the Son isn't greater or equal to the Father?

I.E., the Father, the Spirit, the Son,..... and not the Father, the Son, the Spirit.

Any thoughts on why?

Because....maybe Jesus is the Messiah and not God?

In love,
cj

 

[Georges]

Uh....I hate to mention this Solo, but the 2 verses that mention Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (one of them being Mat 28:19, the other is known as the Johanine comma) are not in the original scripture, and have been added in a later date. Not many people like to hear that the scripture has been edited, but it's a sad truth. It rocked my little happy world until I reserach it...then I had to re evaluate the trinity belief that I held so long.

What's your point?

My point to solo was in reference to his post to the Holy Ghost being the 3rd part of a trinity. My point was that the only 2 trinity verses found in the bible are known additions, that's the point....trinitarians edited the bible to fit their adgenda.

Having said that,

In Revelation we have 2 verses that mention the 7 spirits of God. Am I unstand that there are 7 different Holy Spirit persons now? I thought there where only 1?

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

What do you know about the lampstand of God?

I know what the Menorah is......

what do you know about the biblical meaning of the number "7"?

I know perfectly well that the number 7 represents completeness...

These 7 Spirits are referred to as 7 eyes of God, can you find scriptures that is related? Try Zech 4.

CJ...7 Spirits are 7 Spirits.

Consider also why the lampstand of God had seven lamps and not just one lamp.

I know perfectly well why a Menorah has 7 lampstands.....but a little tidbit for the other posters......The Menorah is seen in Judaism as representing the 7 days of Creation and 7000 years of man's lease on earth. The center Lamp is known as the Servant lamp, because it's oil supply feeds the rest of the lamps. Also, it is the 4th in line. What does that mean..? amongst other things, Messiah (the servant) came in the 4 Thousandth year.


And, also consider why the seven lamps were still consider just one lamp.

This is considered 1 lamp with 7 components.

Compare to:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


7 spirits and the description of each facet....not 7 persons......

Absolutely. But note it still defines these facets as... the Spirit.

Note....they do not represent a person......but rather attributes of God.

THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD is the (Ruwah-Pneuma) energizing source of life and the power of God. He is one with the children of God, working in us and through us. He is both the anointing and the source of the anointing. It is through this power source that God's life begins working is us but actually creates the very life of God Himself within us.

THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM (Chokmah-Sophia) is the supernatural intelligence of God which consists of true and right discernment between good and evil and releases direction and a course of action dictated by that discernment (1Kings 3:9,28). The Spirit of Wisdom is the essence of all of God's thoughts. It has been given us to know the wisdom of God (1Cor. 2:7-9) but it remains hidden from the world. James told us in James 1:5-6 that if we would ask, God's wisdom would be given us.

THE SPIRIT OF UNDERSTANDING (Binah-Sunesis) is a perception, comprehension, and knowing released through revelation. He is God's illuminations and insights released through the revelation of His word. Wisdom and understanding brings life to our soul (Proverbs 3:21-22) and helps to keep us from falling (Proverbs 2:1-5 & Jeremiah 25:10-11

THE SPIRIT OF COUNSEL (Esa-Boulomai) is God's advocacy, direction, and instruction concerning life and daily living. It is our advocate that points the way in which we are to go and instructs us in how to arrive there. "My ways are not your ways, and your thoughts are not my thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9). We can freely seek His counsel with the confidence that He will not withhold from us. It is only when we seek our own way or make decisions concerning our lives without consulting Him, that we find situations in our lives goes wrong way. We are assured of His answering us (Hebrews 10:35-36 & Matt. 7:7-8).

THE SPIRIT OF MIGHT (Gibbor-Kratos) is God's supernatural ability and power to achieve the thoughts and intents of His will. This ability has been given the church to enable them to OVERCOME. Overcoming is the freedom from self (John 8:31-32,34-36). It is this power and ability in us that enables us to 'put off' the habits of our flesh and crucify it with its passions and to put on Christ (1Cor. 7:37 & Gal. 5:13,16). God's might is the activation process which gives us the power to carry out His will (Isa. 46:10-11 & Psalm 18:32).

THE SPIRIT OF KNOWLEDGE (Daath-Oida) is God's intuitive, cognitive power which possesses everything that God knows. The Spirit of Knowledge brings us His ability to perceive and know truth. Israel knew the acts of God, but Moses knew His ways. Worldly knowledge (Ginosko) causes us to know something by what we have learned, experienced, seen or come to know through our own efforts (John 17:3), but this is only beginning knowledge. But Godly knowledge (Oida) comes through revelation and gives us the ability to know without effort. This is fullness of knowledge (John 5:20) that the Father gave to Jesus. And we too are His sons and He will show us all things also. It is important that we remain not in the beginnings that God has brought us to, but rather we are to go on into 'intimate' knowledge of Him.

THE SPIRIT OF THE FEAR OF THE LORD is the Spirit of holy reverence and respect to the awesomeness and majesty of God. The fear of the Lord will cause us to hate sin but love the sinner and to understand that it is by the grace of God that we have entered the kingdom. It will cause us to walk in love and truth (2Cor. 10:11; 3John 3). We are to glorify God in our living.

Although the above definitions are not complete, what you descriobe above is not different Spirits, but just different aspects of one Spirit.

Agreed.......again not a person, but attributes of God.

Also, in Revelation (the only book given a stern warning concerning editing of it) God Christ and the Holy Ghost are not mention together.....

Actually, they are.

Revelation  1 : 4, "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace to you and peace..... from Him who is and who was and who is coming (God the Father), and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne (the intensified Holy Spirit), and from Jesus Christ (the Son), the faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth...... To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood and made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father, to Him be the glory and the might forever and ever. Amen."

The interesting thing seen in the scripture above is that unlike in other earlier scriptures, in these the Holy Spirit is mentioned in order.... before the Son.

Interesting observation......as if the Son isn't greater or equal to the Father?

I.E., the Father, the Spirit, the Son,..... and not the Father, the Son, the Spirit.

Any thoughts on why?

Because....maybe Jesus is the Messiah and not God, but in representation only?

In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Georges, I really appreciate your consideration of what I'm posting.

I believe that there is a positive environment that is in place.


But before I respond to your entire post, allow me to ask you this,..... in your consideration of the lampstand did you consider the oil in the lampstand?

And if you want to go even deeper, and we should for the Lord, and for ourselves,..... consider also the wick, and the function of the lamp, and even what all these aspects of the lamp are made from.

God is always found in the details.

In love,
cj

 

[gingercat]

Hi, everyone,

From what I understand from the Bible, the Holy Spirit is Jesus' representative. If we are not true to Him I don't believe the Holy Sprit is in us. Holy Spirit gives us power to follow His will, and He makes us powerful for His purpose.

I don't believe the Holy Spirit is as complicated as most Christitians are making Him out to be.