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Bible Study The Jew the Gentile and the Church 1 Cor.10:32.

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I was about to start a study of the ethnic divisions of The Scriptures when I run across a Scofield Study of the same subject. I looked it over, it is the same thing that I teach and believe.. I hope you will look it over and discuss.

Thanks
Douglas Summers

 
I was about to start a study of the ethnic divisions of The Scriptures when I run across a Scofield Study of the same subject. I looked it over, it is the same thing that I teach and believe.. I hope you will look it over and discuss.

Thanks
Douglas Summers


Quote from URL link - “It may safely be said that the Judaizing of the church has done more to hinder her progress, pervert her mission, and destroy her spiritually than all other causes combined. Instead of pursuing her appointed path of separation from the world and following the Lord in her heavenly calling, she has used Jewish Scriptures to justify herself in lowering her purpose to the civilization of the world,”

I think here that I would have said that many of the church have taken that written to, and of Israel in context as pertaining to the Church, and all of it isn’t. I will add though that 1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Quote from URL link - “He finds, too, from Ephesians 3:5-10, that the church is not once mentioned in Old Testament prophecy, but was, in those ages, a mystery “hid in God.” Scripturally, he finds the birth of the church in Acts 2, and the termination of its career on the earth in I Thessalonians 4.”

Could this have been Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The following URL link says that the word Assembly (Strongs H6951) in the Old Testament with (G1577) referring to the church in the New Testament.
Strong’s G1577
The KJV translates Strong's G1577 in the following manner: church (115x), assembly (3x).
an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
http://www.pfrs.org/pd/10.html

I think of Abraham offering Isaac as the type of God providing His sacrifice Jesus, of Adam & Eve being clothed with skins requiring blood be shed, and God having respect unto Abel’s offering. Those of Israel had to have had some instruction to many things we read of in the Church.

On such expositions of God’s word, Brother Scofield and all giving such comments are in my opinion giving what they suppose is written. Are they prophets? Will it truly change anything we do to glorify God? I don’t know but I do read in Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations, and in Rom 14.3 . . for God hath received him. I do suppose that at times I understand some New Testament scripture better from taking from the Old Testament.

Is there any special portion of Scofield’s notes you question? I do like many things Scofield said, although there are things I disagree with. Blessings in Christ Jesus. :)
 
I read thru the site that you presented Douglas. It's been ages since I've pondered the differences. I really didn't see anything that I would disagree with. It looks like Eugene has a few problems with Scolfield so I'll see what you have to say to him and then I'll go from there.
 
Why a division ... between the people of God?

Exo 17:5 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.
Exo 17:6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.
Who was the Rock of the OT

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Psa_146:10 The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.

Heb_12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


Heb_13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 
I think of Abraham offering Isaac as the type of God providing His sacrifice Jesus, of Adam & Eve being clothed with skins requiring blood be shed, and God having respect unto Abel’s offering. Those of Israel had to have had some instruction to many things we read of in the Church.
Hi Eugene, The assembly (Church) or called out ones was not the mystery to Israel. They knew that there would be a royal administration to rule over Israel with King David (a Royal Priesthood of kings and priest) Rev. 1:5-7; Rev. 5:10; Isa. 61:6; 1 Pet. 2:9.
What most churches in today's gospel teachings is void of is kingdom theology. That is, that The assembly (called out) is the new Jerusalem and administration of the nation Israel. Christ came to gather His own (The Priest) and take away the sins of Israel. The first gospel was rejected by the priest. Christ fulfilled the second part.

The mystery part was that the Gentile was called out with the Jew to serve in the administration (New Jerusalem) and the other mystery was the close relationship as Sons of God. (Ephesians Chapters 1,2 and 5).
 
Hi Eugene, The assembly (Church) or called out ones was not the mystery to Israel. They knew that there would be a royal administration to rule over Israel with King David (a Royal Priesthood of kings and priest) Rev. 1:5-7; Rev. 5:10; Isa. 61:6; 1 Pet. 2:9.
What most churches in today's gospel teachings is void of is kingdom theology. That is, that The assembly (called out) is the new Jerusalem and administration of the nation Israel. Christ came to gather His own (The Priest) and take away the sins of Israel. The first gospel was rejected by the priest. Christ fulfilled the second part.

The mystery part was that the Gentile was called out with the Jew to serve in the administration (New Jerusalem) and the other mystery was the close relationship as Sons of God. (Ephesians Chapters 1,2 and 5).

hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

I agree with what was posted in post #1, but as to post #5 I don't know if I agree with; " The assembly (called out) is the new Jerusalem and the administration of the nation of Israel". I understand that I am a little dense sometimes, but my understanding is the after the consummation of this age of grace, there will be the kingdom of Israel established and Christ will at that time rule from David's throne. If I have misunderstood, then please explain in greater detail, please.
 
hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

I agree with what was posted in post #1, but as to post #5 I don't know if I agree with; " The assembly (called out) is the new Jerusalem and the administration of the nation of Israel". I understand that I am a little dense sometimes, but my understanding is the after the consummation of this age of grace, there will be the kingdom of Israel established and Christ will at that time rule from David's throne. If I have misunderstood, then please explain in greater detail, please.
You are correct, but the Church will rule and judge with Him. The born again are son's of God. (Rom. 8:14-17) (1 Cor. 6:1-2) Is not the Church the Bride of Christ? (Rev. 21:2-3)
 
You are correct, but the Church will rule and judge with Him. The born again are son's of God. (Rom. 8:14-17) (1 Cor. 6:1-2) Is not the Church the Bride of Christ? (Rev. 21:2-3)

hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

Thanks for further explanation. Yes, the born again are heirs and joint heirs with Christ.
 
Is not the Church the Bride of Christ? (Rev. 21:2-3)
Hi Douglas Summers, I’ll attempt to lend light to your question here with an excerpt from “A Prophesy Study of Revelation I transcribed from CD’s presented by Gene Hawkins to have mailed from FedEx Copies to a lifer in prison.

Revelation 21:2. "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." It is very important that we understand this because sometimes people read this and say all of the new Jerusalem here is the bride of Christ. It doesn't say that. It says that the holy city new Jerusalem came down from God out of heaven prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Anyone knows that a bride has all sorts of adornment which are other people. The bride's maids, attendants for the groom, and all of these different ones are never used to take away attention from her, but they are really designed to compliment the bride of Christ as a part of her adornment. This is exactly what you find with the new Jerusalem, it is representative of all of the people of God, but it is the bride of Christ that is the center of all of that attention. And so you'll notice that in describing the new Jerusalem he says "I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven." The new Jerusalem is composed of the people of God coming down from God out of heaven and I wondered well, how far down are they going to come? You know, where is this going to be? It is really very representative of the throne of God where God wanted to come down and dwell among men and He is going to do that but you know, where is this going to be? In Genesis 3:8-9 God came walking in the garden in the cool of the day and talked to Adam. God has always had that desire to be amongst His own people and so here we find that new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven. Who knows how close it will come? Will it be where you can see it in the air? We simply do not know but this is the same city that Abraham looked for. You'll find that at Hebrews 11:10. "He looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God," and he will realize that desire and see that wonderful city.

Now I want to again emphasize that the whole city is not the bride, but the city includes the bride and her adornment. Other believers are going to compliment her there and that's what we need to understand is that her adornment are other believers. The central company, the bride of Christ is the four living ones and the twenty-four elders which were that first company of believers we saw there in Revelation Chapter Four and they have been at the center of things down through the tribulation and all of that. Things have centered on them, they call forth the praise, and their attitude and purpose has always been to magnify only Christ such as when the twenty-four elders threw their crowns at Jesus' feet.

Now then Revelation 21:9 through 22:5 describes in detail the entirety of this city and her adornment in such wonderful specific detail. As we have noted, believers are an adornment and a compliment for other believers. Philippians 4:1 says, "Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved." You see, this crown is an adornment. 1 Thessalonians 2:19 says it this way, "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?" These different saints of God are going to be around the bride of Christ that constitutes her adornment, but the bride of Christ is a separate company. In the Song of Solomon 6:9 we read this: "My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." In other words the bride of Christ is the cream of the crop of mother grace. She has yielded to all of these specific requirements and manifestations of this manifold grace of God. These daughters that we see here are not sinners; they are other Christians and they just add to her adornment and of course it's for the purpose of Bridegroom's enjoyment, but indeed they are simply adorning the bride.

Now then, what are the qualifications for this woman who is the central figure or nucleus of this new Jerusalem, the one who is adorned? The price for us is suffering, and yet all Christians are not suffering with Christ. Many of them suffer as a result of their own stupidity and foolishness, but that's not suffering with Christ. 2 Timothy 2:12 tells us that "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us." If we deny Him meaning that if we hold back and refuse to take the path He chooses for us even though it means suffering He'll deny us what? He will deny us the throne. We will be denied reigning conjointly with Him the way that the bride of Christ is going to do. There is a great difference between an heir and a joint heir with Christ, but what is the key to being a joint heir with Christ? We find the answer in Romans 8:17. "If so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." A part of the glorification of Christ is reigning as King of kings, and Lord of lords. This group, the bride of Christ is going to reign jointly with Him.

In Revelation 5:10 we read, "Thou hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (Or over) the earth" and that is spoken only of the twenty-four elders and the four living ones. They are that separate company known as the bride of Christ. The rest of the new Jerusalem simply supplied the adornment that is going to be manifested both for her and of course ultimately Christ Himself.

Alright we want to notice the time frame that we are talking about here in Chapter Twenty-one. Now the new Jerusalem comes down as a bride adorned for her husband. When? Again it is at the millennium, however we want to make sure we understand this is not when the marriage took place. The marriage took place back in Revelation 19:7 and then she is also seen in Revelation 19:14 as the armies of heaven and that's the same company as the bride adorned. Now when we first see these four living ones and the twenty-four elders in Revelation 4:4-11, she is not married yet but we don't find the innumerable company arriving in heaven until Revelation 7:9, then we don't find the one hundred and forty-four thousand there until Revelation 14:1 and both of those groups are a part of her adornment, and so the wedding doesn't take place until right shortly before the middle of the week. Now I can't tell you how many days it's going to be but we know that two hundred and fifty days prior to the middle of the week is a very important time there for the release of the antichrist and all of that, and then that's about the time of arrival of the one hundred and forty-four thousand, but that's how we know when she is going to be married. In the parable of the ten virgins there were five foolish and five wise virgins, and in Matthew 25:6 it says, "At midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him." The five wise virgins were going out to meet the bridegroom which means the marriage has come and so it is somewhere around the middle of the week.

Now we come to the end of the millennial period and the bride of Christ has been ruling with Jesus for one thousand years and that's what she was promised. After that thousand year reign is over at the end of the millennial period this new Jerusalem is going to come down as a bride adorned for her husband.
 
Now I want to again emphasize that the whole city is not the bride, but the city includes the bride and her adornment. Other believers are going to compliment her there and that's what we need to understand is that her adornment are other believers. The central company, the bride of Christ is the four living ones and the twenty-four elders which were that first company of believers we saw there in Revelation Chapter Four and they have been at the center of things down through the tribulation and all of that. Things have centered on them, they call forth the praise, and their attitude and purpose has always been to magnify only Christ such as when the twenty-four elders threw their crowns at Jesus' feet.
Yes, The nations bring their glory into Jerusalem...(Rev. 21:21-27) And others, such as (Rev. 7:9-17). But only the Church are the bride and sons of God in a royal household or priesthood. (the Bride itself) The Crowns are for the body of Christ and rewards for service as Christ received His crown, so shall the Church receive theirs. And yes, we throw them at the feet of Christ, for WE are unworthy, and HE is worthy to be praised, Amen! But the tribulation saints are not the Church, the Church does not go through the tribulation. (Rev. 3:10)
 
The tribulation saints are not the Church, the Church does not go through the tribulation. (Rev. 3:10)
Good morning. What gives you the idea that those of the Great multitude are not of the Church? Do you realize that the Philadelphia church represents them that have faithfully kept the word of God?
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (these are alive at Jesus' coming for them.)
The next group commended is the Smyrna church that remain faithful unto death of Rev 2:10. And the dead in Christ will rise first (The elders). These two parts of the Church have the closest proximity to Jesus' throne.
Rev 4:4 . . round about the throne, and Rev 4:6 . . . in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne.

Are you aware that Revelation Chapters Two and Three are prophetic of the entire Church, and seven classes of the redeemed are described as Jesus walks among the candlesticks (Rev 2:1). We read of this judgment in 1Pe 4:17 where it begins at the house of God. It does not extend into the time of Jacob’s trouble: the second three and one-half years.

Notice Rev 2:22 where Jesus has warned the Church in Thyatira of great tribulation unless it repents?
“I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.”

Now notice what is said of them:
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

There is something said of the bride that is not said of all Christians in:
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness (or righteous works - a righteous act or deed) of saints.
:wave2
 
Are you aware that Revelation Chapters Two and Three are prophetic of the entire Church, and seven classes of the redeemed are described as Jesus walks among the candlesticks (Rev 2:1). We read of this judgment in 1Pe 4:17 where it begins at the house of God. It does not extend into the time of Jacob’s trouble: the second three and one-half years.
Yes, I'm aware. Don't forget, the Levitical tribe was the priestly tribe....all were Levites. But not all Levites were priest. Some of them served in the sanctuary attending to the priest. Like those that come out of the great tribulation (Rev. 7:9-17). Notice the salutations to the churches, They will rule with Christ (Rev. 2:26-29) (Rev. 3:10-13) (Rev. 3:20-22). I believe that the 24 elders are the church (Rev. 4:10-11) and that (Rev. 4:1-2) is the rapture of the church. The first resurrection is over a period of time, not just one day.
 
Why a division ... between the people of God?

Exo 17:5 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.
Exo 17:6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.
Who was the Rock of the OT

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Psa_146:10 The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.

Heb_12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


Heb_13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hi reba, Before there was unity there was division between the Jew and Gentile. But the Church is part of the commonwealth of Israel, They are united. What is different is their position in the commonwealth of Israel (Eph. 2:11-13). God has joined (by the cross) the Jew and the Gentile as one new man. (the Church) (Eph. 2:14-16) It is the administration of the commonwealth of the nation of Israel. The only thing left are unbelievers of (Jew and Gentile). I hope that helps in understanding our position as one new man.
 
dirtfarmer here

Colossians 2:12 " That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world."

Are the covenants of promise the same as the law? Galatians 3:17 states " And this I say, that the covenant that was confirmed of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after" Is this saying that the covenant was confirmed before the law? " cannot not disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect." What was that promise? Is it found in Genesis 12:1-3? Do we find in Genesis 13:16-17 the land grant to Abram's earthly seed? Do we find the promise of Abram's spiritual seed promise in Genesis 15:5? In Genesis 15:6 we find: "And he believed in the LORD: and he counted it to him for righteousness." Two times before this we find that Abram called upon the name of the LORD; 1. He built an altar at Bethel in Genesis 12:8 and then in 13:4, we find the second time at Bethel, this time was his separation from Lot. This was the 2nd time God promised to make Abram a great nation of his seed, as the sands of the sea.

We don't find the "law" ever given to Abram. It was given to Moses after they departed from Egypt. So, What covenants did Paul have in mind when he wrote Colossians 2:12 "strangers from the promise"?
 
dirtfarmer here

Colossians 2:12 " That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world."

Are the covenants of promise the same as the law? Galatians 3:17 states " And this I say, that the covenant that was confirmed of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after" Is this saying that the covenant was confirmed before the law? " cannot not disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect." What was that promise? Is it found in Genesis 12:1-3? Do we find in Genesis 13:16-17 the land grant to Abram's earthly seed? Do we find the promise of Abram's spiritual seed promise in Genesis 15:5? In Genesis 15:6 we find: "And he believed in the LORD: and he counted it to him for righteousness." Two times before this we find that Abram called upon the name of the LORD; 1. He built an altar at Bethel in Genesis 12:8 and then in 13:4, we find the second time at Bethel, this time was his separation from Lot. This was the 2nd time God promised to make Abram a great nation of his seed, as the sands of the sea.

We don't find the "law" ever given to Abram. It was given to Moses after they departed from Egypt. So, What covenants did Paul have in mind when he wrote Colossians 2:12 "strangers from the promise"?
Remember Dirtfarmer, The law of Moses was not just the Ten Commandments. The law included the rituals and practices of feast days and sacrifices. And all the covenants to Abraham were before the Law. (Gen. 12:1-3). But everything God proclaims is law, promises and all. He confirms the Abrahamic Covenant to Abrahams son, Isaac (Gen. 26:1-5)

He the again, confirms the same covenant to Isaac's son Jacob, (Gen. 28:10-16). But the promise Paul is talking about is the promise in (Gen. 12:1-3) That God would make Israel a great nation (not the Gentiles). But He adds that the Gentiles would benefit. (Rom. 15:8-13)
 
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