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Bible Study The Lord's Discipline

F

Fnerb

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Hebrews 12:1-13 speaks of God's discipline of his disciples. I have recently been going through some health related trials and reading this gave me some comfort.

My question, to what "discipline" do you believe he is refereing to?
 
Fnerb said:
Hebrews 12:1-13 speaks of God's discipline of his disciples. I have recently been going through some health related trials and reading this gave me some comfort.

My question, to what "discipline" do you believe he is refereing to?

Hi Fnerb,

There is popular focus on Heb 12:6a in preaching but to hear Heb 12:6b expounded is less common: And He scourges every son whom He receives. . .

This appears to be a higher order of discipline - and perhaps for that reason less commonly experienced. I can only suggest that this disciple refers to the 'received sonship' an unpopular notion because it was suggests that their are sons and there are sons. However, the Apostle James says something similar in James 1:12 - the crown is received only after trials and approval by God. The notion that this crown is awarded without testing would have been foreign for James. Paul alos talks about God's severity - but I don't remember the exact content.

One explanation I heard was that Jewish sons came of age at around 14 - though in a sense they were sons prior to that. As to what this discipline is my guess would be that it is 'tailored' to the individual and within the scope of God's love.


blessings: stranger
 
As one who knows the discipline of the Lord, may I give you my perspective.

Firstly God only disciplines his own children which I think is brought out well in Hebrews 12:7-8. In essence it is saying that if you are God’s child you WILL be chastened. So if you are not being chastened, you are not His son, but an illegitimate child. (Mmmm I'm sure I used the word taken from KJV. Seems there is censorship of scripture. :-?)

So what is it then that this discipline or chastening achieves? I believe much – in many ways. As God’s children we can be sure that he loves us – otherwise he would not discipline us. And as his children made in his image (born of his Spirit) we constantly contend with the frailty and weakness of the flesh which we will not escape until the day of the Lord. But it is His desire that we be conformed to the likeness of Christ. So how is this achieved when our flesh desires something else? Sometimes God gives us a thorn in the flesh. Sometimes He brings about circumstances that cause us to come to our senses and return to reliance on Him. Sometimes he takes away things that we perhaps take for granted – temporal crutches that we feel a need for – but in reality take our focus off Him.

Now I consider myself much loved, since I have been chastened much. In desperation I have cried out to God – even to the point of crying out, “Why have you forsaken me?â€Â. But at the moment that I acknowledged, “nevertheless not my will but thine be doneâ€Â, such a wonderful peace flooded my entire being. A peace only found in submission to Him. And with this peace is a wondrous joy that says, “Through sorrow You have brought me joy and though my trials may be many, You carry my burden."

The Lord bless you
 
Hi Mutzrein,

In the light of your testimony would you care to comment on Heb12:6a and 6b, and James 1:12?

In both instances is there sufficient grounds for saying that a two stage process in involved?

blessings: stranger
 
I have discovered that the discipline of the Lord is a bit like the work of an artist with a sculpture. It has been said of Michelangelo that he would take a block of marble, then chip away anything that does not look like the image that he wanted. I tend to think that is what the Lord is doing with us. Sometimes we give up those chips willingly, sometimes there are things that we want in our lives, not realizing that God wants it gone. Those are the things that cause us pain and grief.

I was reading in Numbers this morning where the Lord was telling Moses about the land that he was giving to the children of Israel, when they were about to enter the promised land. God tells them to drive out the people who now live in this land. These people are wicked, idolaters, and corrupt. He goes on to tell them what will happen if they don't.

Num 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:
Num 33:53 And ye shall dispossess [the inhabitants] of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.

Num 33:54 And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: [and] to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's [inheritance] shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit.
Num 33:55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them [shall be] pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. Num 33:56 Moreover it shall come to pass, [that] I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.


Discipline is God's way of purging us from things that are not of Him, and replacing it with things that are of Him. (ie: changes) The closer we want to be with God, the more cleansing and purging we go through. The more we become 'dead to self'.

The closer I draw to the Lord, I have noticed the more 'dead to self' I have become. The attacks of the enemy have become equivalent to the enemy 'kicking a dead horse'. The Lord has protected me from the enemy, and I have come to recognize that. It is not just the Lord's discipline in my life, but in fact, the way that the Lord is using me for His purposes, that I have been resisting. Giving up. Surrendering to the Lord, there is peace.

I want to go here, do that and be this. The Lord's ways are greater.

Isa 55:8-9 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Why bother? Is it hopeless to try to figure out His thoughts, His ways? Adam may have been created in His image, but Adam fell. We are no longer in the image of God. However, when you are born again, you are given a new life. You become a new creation in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son...

Conform to the image of Jesus. It is a process. Becoming born again is the beginning, not the end. It is a process. From the point where you gave your life to the Lord, you are never the same. You go through times of growth, and times of pruning.

Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Jhn 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

That is the goal of discipline. The pain of discipline is a result of either God taking something from you, or adding something to you. Surrender. Ask Him what it is that He desires to do, then submit to it.

I encourage you to read the lyrics of "Hold Me Jesus", by Rich Mullins

http://www.christianlyricsonline.com/ar ... jesus.html
 
stranger said:
Hi Mutzrein,

In the light of your testimony would you care to comment on Heb12:6a and 6b, and James 1:12?

In both instances is there sufficient grounds for saying that a two stage process in involved?

blessings: stranger

Hi stranger

What two stage process are you alluding to?
 
mutzrein said:
Hi stranger

What two stage process are you alluding to?


Hi mutzrein,

James 1:12

Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial;
for once he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life,
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

My comment has to do with 'for once he has been approved' at this instance God awards him the crown of life - not before.

call the stages milestones or whatever

1: the man perseveres
2: he receives approval and the crown of life

The implication is that if the man does not receive the approval - he is left to persevere without receiving the fulfilment of the promise from the Lord.
All this occurs, I believe, after he has started his pilgrimage.

blessings: stranger
 
stranger said:
Hi mutzrein,

James 1:12

Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial;
for once he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life,
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

My comment has to do with 'for once he has been approved' at this instance God awards him the crown of life - not before.

call the stages milestones or whatever

1: the man perseveres
2: he receives approval and the crown of life

The implication is that if the man does not receive the approval - he is left to persevere without receiving the fulfilment of the promise from the Lord.
All this occurs, I believe, after he has started his pilgrimage.

blessings: stranger

I've never thought about it as a 'staged' process. Rather, a process of maturing. I will give it some thought.

Could it be, do you think, that 'the crown of life' may be a reward beyond the 'life' afforded by the Spirit of God which is a deposit guaranteeing what is to come. So, while all of those who receive the Spirit are given life, some receive a crown.

Personally, I'm not inclined to the idea but as I say - more consideration on my part required. And if the Lord reveals something to me through it - sobeit.

The Lord bless you
 
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