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The Lords super ,

J

johnny botwright

Member
When we take part in the bread and the wine, known to some as the Eucharist , through transistorization is the bread and wine after being consecrated,

does the bread and wine become the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Jesus. ?

or is it a symbolic feast ?




Mark 14.22 While they were eating Jesus took bread, gave thanks, and broke it, and gave it to his Disciples, saying take it, this is my body,

Then he took the cup, gave thanks, and offered it to them and they all drank from it,

This is my blood of the new covenant, new testament, which is poured out for many, he said to them,

I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day, when I drink it anew in the Kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 16

Is not the cup of thanks given , for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ?

and is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ.

because there is one loaf, we who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

Consider the people of Israel, Do not those who eat the sacrifice participate in the alter?

Do i mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is any thing , or that an idol is any thing?

No but the sacrifice of Pagans are offered to demons, not to God.

and i do not want you to be participants with demons.

you can not drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too,

you cannot have a part in both , the Lords table, and the table of demons.





1 Corinthians chapter 11 verse 23

For I received from the Lord what i also passed on to you, The Lord Jesus on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said , this is my body, which is for you, do this in remembrance of me.

In the same way , after supper he took the cup, saying this is the new covenant, in my blood,

do this , when ever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lords death until he comes.

There fore , who ever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord,

A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup,

For any one who eats and drinks with out recognizing the body of the Lord,

eats and drinks judgement on him self.

That is why many among you are weak and sick. and a number of you have fallen a sleep.

But if we judged our self, we would not come under Judgement .

When we are Judged by the Lord we are being disciplined,

so we will not be condemned with the world.
 
I believe it is the actual blood and body.

I am not Roman Catholic.

Never heard of transistorization, I had to look that word up.
 
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woodlandapple said:
it depends on if your catholic or not
Click to expand...
It would also seriously depend upon whether one is a Jew or not.

†. Gen 9:3-4 . . Every moving thing that lives shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall you not eat

†. Lev 7:26-27 . . Moreover you shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings. Whatsoever soul it be that eats any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

The words "no manner of blood" and the words "any manner of blood" of course include human blood otherwise language and grammar would serve no practical purpose in the Bible.

The Lord said he came to fulfill the Old Testament's laws rather than to render them null and void.

†. Mtt 5:17-19 . . Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them. I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved. So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the kingdom of heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the kingdom of heaven.

So then, I think it's safe to conclude that the Lord (himself a Jew) would never encourage his Jewish apostles to imbibe his blood since to do so would not only be contrary to their ethnic identity; but also a gross violation of both Noah's law and Moses' covenanted law.

Some have tried to side-step all of the above by claiming that the Lord's supper was instituted as an element of the new covenant. But the problem with that line of reasoning is that a testament is in force only upon the death of the testator; not before (Heb 9:16-17). In other words: had the apostles imbibed the Lord's blood prior to his crucifixion, then he would have been guilty of leading them all into sin. However, even so, the new covenant changed nothing in regards to Christians imbibing blood.

†. Acts 15:19-21 . . It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals; and from blood.

Cliff
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Really makes no difference whether one is Jew or Catholic. What does the Bible teach if any thing on the subject? Thats the question.
 
johnny botwright said:
When we take part in the bread and the wine, known to some as the Eucharist , through transistorization is the bread and wine after being consecrated,

does the bread and wine become the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Jesus. ?

or is it a symbolic feast ?
Click to expand...
Symbolic.
Any dogma that attempts to place the “real presence†of the flesh and blood of Christ into the communion components, in a literal sense, is the result of a misunderstanding of the language employed in the Scriptures. ~ The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church​
 
Super-transistorized Symbolic
That is why it is still difficult even today. Jesus' message can still offend if interpreted wrongly.:waving

Jhn 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Jhn 6:48 - I am that bread of life.
Jhn 6:49 - Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Jhn 6:50 - This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Jhn 6:51 - I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Jhn 6:52 - The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?
Jhn 6:53 - Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Jhn 6:54 - Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:55 - For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Jhn 6:56 - He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Jhn 6:57 - As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Jhn 6:58 - This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Jhn 6:59 - These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
Jhn 6:60 ¶ Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
Jhn 6:61 - When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Jhn 6:62 - [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Jhn 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.​
 
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People who fail to ingest the Lord's flesh and blood are dead on the hoof.

†. John 6:53 . . I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

The kind of life available to people who correctly dine upon the Lord's flesh, and correctly imbibe his blood is eternal life.

†. John 6:54 . . Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life.

The trick to obtaining eternal life via a communion service is that it's necessary to ingest both elements; viz: the flesh and the blood. In other words: the flesh alone isn't enough. So then people who never drink the wine element of communion, have been spinning their wheels and might just as well stay in their seats for all the good it does to eat a communion wafer without drinking the wine too.

Some have tried to side-step the wine requirement by attesting that they drink the wine by proxy participation in their priests drinking the wine. Well; if that works, then why not have priests eat the wafer too at the same time and thus complete the entire communion service that way?

However; the Lord said: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. There is no proxy clause in that statement. This is something that everybody has to do for themselves just as Yhvh's people had to eat manna for themselves if they wished to survive during their forty years of wilderness wandering.

But what really matters is the eternal life the Lord spoke of. Just what is that? Is it immortality? No; eternal life can't be immortality because if it were, then no one who correctly ingests the Lords flesh and blood would die; but they all do. I am unaware of any Christians older than 150 years.

Eternal life is the life of God in contrast to the life of human beings. Human life is a created kind of life that had its beginning in the book of Genesis. But human life's creator never had a beginning; nor is His kind of life a created kind of life.

God's life is a spirit kind of life rather than a bodily kind of life.

†. John 4:24 . . God is spirit.

In other words: were God to reproduce, He would give birth not to flesh, but to spirit

†. John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So just as flesh reproduces flesh, so spirit reproduces spirit. In other words: were God to give birth to something other than more of Himself; that would be tantamount to an orangutan giving birth to a redwood tree. True, both the ape and the tree are life; but they are not the same kinds of life. The one is animal life while the other is vegetable life; and like they say: you can't get blood out of a turnip.

So: since God cannot die, then it only stands to reason that His is a kind of life that cannot die; which is no doubt why God life is labeled "eternal". How does that apply to the communion service? Well if eternal life is the kind of life obtained by correctly ingesting the Lord's flesh and blood, then the ingesters need ingest the elements but once, and once only, rather than every week as if eternal life is a kind of life that will die without nourishment. If eternal life is a kind of life that needs nourishment to survive; then what, pray tell, has God been eating all these many years to keep His strength up? Ambrosia?

Note : since eternal life is an imperishable kind of life; then people who have it cannot possibly go out of existence when they die. Their bodies might decompose, but not themselves; no, themselves go right on existing into eternity; with a body or without a body: it makes no difference to eternal life because God life is spirit life rather than bodily life.

Cliff
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