The Lord's Supper or...our own bread and wine?

[whirlwind]

Paul had just stated that those he was addressing "come together not for the better, but for the worse." Although Paul was addressing those in Corinth, it is to all of us, everywhere, for all time. That sets the stage for his lesson....

• 1 Corinthians 11:18-20 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you: and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is NOT TO EAT THE LORD'S SUPPER.

The "heresies" among them were the Sadducees and the High Priest was one of them. [Acts 5:17] When we gather in the church do we come together to partake of Christ or of ....? What do we hear and see?

• 11:21-22 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

On the surface it sounds as if those meeting were there to stuff themselves and get drunk. The deeper teaching is they were meeting and bringing their own food, their own teaching...not the Word of the Lord. Among us, some are hungry and crave His Word but others are drunk on false teaching.

• 11:23-25 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread: And when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said, "Take, eat, this is My body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of Me." After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying, "This cup is the new testament in My blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.

Paul received and delivered "of the Lord," as we should, whether we are male or female. When the Holy Spirit opens understanding to us we are to deliver that to others.

The bread is His body and His body is the Word. This example for us shows that even until we, as His witnesses, are betrayed we are to take His Word, the Bread of Life, into ourselves and the world. We should drink often of His blood, the New Testament. Not of the bread and wine offered by those "approved and becoming manifest among us" if it is not His Word.

• 11:27-30 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

On the surface, we should examine ourselves before partaking of the Lords's Supper. We should also realize that when we take in false doctrine...not discerning the truth of His Word, "the Lord's body," it causes us to be the weak and sick parts of the body of Christ and...many will sleep, many will not be spiritually alive.

 

[unclejed]

I was led of the Lord to come to believe that I should actually partake of the "Lords' supper" which is the Seder. My wife and I have been blessed by attending the yearly Seder with a congregation of "Jews for Jesus". The reduced (to almost obscure) ritual that the protestant denominations carry out is so far from what Jesus and the Apostles observed it borders on pathetic. We are not obligated to partake of this observance but once you attend a Seder and partake of its' richness and realize as the Rabbi states that this very observance is over 2000 years old and unbroken and Jesus Himself loved it, you can hardly get any significant meaning from the thimble and chunks of bread in the protestant denominations (no slam intended).

 

[whirlwind]

I was led of the Lord to come to believe that I should actually partake of the "Lords' supper" which is the Seder. My wife and I have been blessed by attending the yearly Seder with a congregation of "Jews for Jesus". The reduced (to almost obscure) ritual that the protestant denominations carry out is so far from what Jesus and the Apostles observed it borders on pathetic. We are not obligated to partake of this observance but once you attend a Seder and partake of its' richness and realize as the Rabbi states that this very observance is over 2000 years old and unbroken and Jesus Himself loved it, you can hardly get any significant meaning from the thimble and chunks of bread in the protestant denominations (no slam intended).

It must be a wonderful experience.

 

[stovebolts]

Whirlwind,

I don't think that what Paul is saying goes as deep as your taking it.
1 Corinthians 1:11-14 for it was signified to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe, that contentions are among you; and I say this, that each one of you saith, `I, indeed, am of Paul' --`and I of Apollos,' --`and I of Cephas,' --`and I of Christ.' Hath the Christ been divided? was Paul crucified for you? or to the name of Paul were ye baptized; I give thanks to God that no one of you did I baptize, except Crispus and Gaius--

Perhaps one of the heresis was baptism?... another

1 Corinthians 3:3-6 for yet ye are fleshly, for where there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not fleshly, and in the manner of men do walk? for when one may say, `I, indeed, am of Paul;' and another, `I--of Apollos;' are ye not fleshly? Who, then, is Paul, and who Apollos, but ministrants through whom ye did believe, and to each as the Lord gave? I planted, Apollos watered, but God was giving growth;

On and on it goes Whirlwind... They even sued each other. When it came time to partake of the Lord's Supper, they had let their culture take over where he who sat at the head of the table was greatest,(Thus ejecting Jesus as the head of the Table) while the weakest was not allowed at the table. In short, the Lord's Supper had turned into a social gathering of the elite... something that was never intended.

Grace and peace.

 

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind,

I don't think that what Paul is saying goes as deep as your taking it.
1 Corinthians 1:11-14 for it was signified to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe, that contentions are among you; and I say this, that each one of you saith, `I, indeed, am of Paul' --`and I of Apollos,' --`and I of Cephas,' --`and I of Christ.' Hath the Christ been divided? was Paul crucified for you? or to the name of Paul were ye baptized; I give thanks to God that no one of you did I baptize, except Crispus and Gaius--

Perhaps one of the heresis was baptism?... another

1 Corinthians 3:3-6 for yet ye are fleshly, for where there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not fleshly, and in the manner of men do walk? for when one may say, `I, indeed, am of Paul;' and another, `I--of Apollos;' are ye not fleshly? Who, then, is Paul, and who Apollos, but ministrants through whom ye did believe, and to each as the Lord gave? I planted, Apollos watered, but God was giving growth;

On and on it goes Whirlwind... They even sued each other. When it came time to partake of the Lord's Supper, they had let their culture take over where he who sat at the head of the table was greatest,(Thus ejecting Jesus as the head of the Table) while the weakest was not allowed at the table. In short, the Lord's Supper had turned into a social gathering of the elite... something that was never intended.

Grace and peace.

Paul taught on three levels. One level is certainly what you have written but I believe the teaching is deeper yet. The telling phrase to me is....."For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper." At least...that is what I see.

Thank you for the grace and peace....it always brings a smile.

 

[stovebolts]

Grace and Peace my Sister in Christ

I write those words as an encouragement to others, as well as a reminder to myself that we are all in this journey together. :amen

Sorry for such a short and to the point response yesterday. I'll see if I can back up and slow down a bit if that's ok.

1 Corinthians 11:18-20 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you: and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is NOT TO EAT THE LORD'S SUPPER.


The "heresies" among them were the Sadducees and the High Priest was one of them. [Acts 5:17] When we gather in the church do we come together to partake of Christ or of ....? What do we hear and see?

I don't think that redacting Acts 5:17 with the church in Corinth makes for a good hermeneutic first and foremost because this has nothing to do with the Sadducees, High Priest let alone any form of Judaism which was partially the case in Galatia, but certainly not in Corinth.

The main problem in Corinth was their culture in conjunction with this new found freedom "In Christ", which in a way really isn't that far off from ours in America in some social streams which is where the divisions and heresies come from. As I pointed out earlier in my last post, the church in Corinth had many issues which divided itself into distinct social groups. This can be seen clearly on their view of baptism where "Who" baptized them was more important than baptism itself (Many churches have this issue today...) and as a result, they also lost the deeper meaning of baptism.

Likewise, this elitism and distorted spiritual freedom found in Christ carried through to their marriages where a son is reported to actually marry his step mother and have sexual encounters with her (5.1)... and the church boasts at this freedom. I think we're starting to get an idea of what types of Christians Paul was writing to.

So when it comes time for the church to gather and partake of the Lord's Supper, it becomes no wonder that they have also distorted that as well. Take for example where Paul writes, For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper:
What was occurring, was that the social elite within the church would bring their own meal and only share it with the other social elites for the purpose of gaining and maintaining favour within their click. Meanwhile, the poor would have nothing to eat for as Paul say's, and one is hungry, and another is drunken. . Like baptism, the Lord's Supper had become a social event and it grieved Paul deeply.

11:23-25 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread: And when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said, "Take, eat, this is My body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of Me." After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying, "This cup is the new testament in My blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.

I believe Paul, like he does in most of his writings started setting the stage for this back in Chapter 10, verses 16 and 17 where he writes, The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

Thus, when we come together to participate in the Lord's Supper, we are to examine ourselves and our outlook on our Brothers and Sisters in Christ, for we are one body in Christ which should never be divided, especially through ones cultural lens and especially through a sense of elitism...

But to briefly speak on the Lord's Supper, I would summarize the gathering as a picture described as such.

The Alter (Cross) is where the sacrifice was offered and this was a very solemn event. It is an event of faith and commitment to the Lord with many deep and reflective aspects. Table is where the sacrifice was enjoyed through community fellowship and was cause for celebration in the presence of the Lord. Thus, the Alter (Cross) grounds the Table and Jesus is host of his Table, and not man. These two dynamics are cause for reflection in awe, gratitude, commitment and celebration.

As always,
Grace an peace,

Jeff

 

[stovebolts]

I was listening to James, 1 Peter and 2 Peter on my way home last night, and these verses caught my eye in relation to this topic.

This reminds me of the social Elite in Corinth...
James 1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

2 Peter 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

 

[whirlwind]

I was listening to James, 1 Peter and 2 Peter on my way home last night, and these verses caught my eye in relation to this topic.

This reminds me of the social Elite in Corinth...
James 1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

2 Peter 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Thank you for those passages...good things to contemplate at any time. I have trouble with loving my neighbor. There is no one for me to forgive, I have no hate but...for some I have no love. And...I don't know how to reconcile that even taking into account the various types of love. How can I make myself love others?

Although I appreciate your teaching on this...and agree with it...I continue to see another layer to Paul's writing. I see it as a warning about those among us, those "in the church" body. Those that get together but "not to eat the Lord's Supper." Instead it is their "own supper," their own bread and wine they bring to the table. That meal leaves "one hungry and another drunken."

• 1 Corinthians 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

To me, Paul is saying that is the Lord's Supper, that is what we should partake of and not the false doctrine (his own supper) offered by some of those among us.


Grace and peace to you to....

 

[stovebolts]

I see it as a warning about those among us, those "in the church" body. Those that get together but "not to eat the Lord's Supper." Instead it is their "own supper," their own bread and wine they bring to the table. That meal leaves "one hungry and another drunken."

When you put it that way, I too see the metaphors your using and agree. I suppose it's like saying "He's got the whole world on his shoulders". I'd more than likely miss the metaphor and respond something like, "No, he's just a very busy guy"

Talk to ya later ;)

Grace and Peace

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you for those passages...good things to contemplate at any time. I have trouble with loving my neighbor. There is no one for me to forgive, I have no hate but...for some I have no love. And...I don't know how to reconcile that even taking into account the various types of love. How can I make myself love others?

I don't want to derail your topic. Please forgive me. I've found that sometimes forgiving others is for their primary benefit, not ours and love goes much deeper than an emotion. When others do us wrong, we not only forgive them to set ourselves free from their sin which holds us in oppression, but we forgive them so that they are free from any resentment they may feel we have towards them, warranted or not. Put it this way, have you ever talked about somebody to your friends behind their back only to have them enter the room? What was your natural response? Did you notice how you couldn't look at them in the face? This is because you instinctively knew that you had wronged this person by talking behind their back and pride / justification starts to creep in. When that person verbally forgives you, your able to look at them in the face again.

In other instances, it may be possible that somebody sinned against you and they were not aware that they had committed that sin. By you verbally forgiving them, it brings it to their attention in a not intrusive manner.

I believe that when the one who was trespassed against verbally forgives their trespasser, it is an act of love as I am reminded of Galatians 5. Notice that these traits and fruits will always become manifest through tangible and measurable actions...

Grace and Peace,

 

[whirlwind]

Thank you for those passages...good things to contemplate at any time. I have trouble with loving my neighbor. There is no one for me to forgive, I have no hate but...for some I have no love. And...I don't know how to reconcile that even taking into account the various types of love. How can I make myself love others?

I don't want to derail your topic. Please forgive me. I've found that sometimes forgiving others is for their primary benefit, not ours and love goes much deeper than an emotion. When others do us wrong, we not only forgive them to set ourselves free from their sin which holds us in oppression, but we forgive them so that they are free from any resentment they may feel we have towards them, warranted or not. Put it this way, have you ever talked about somebody to your friends behind their back only to have them enter the room? What was your natural response? Did you notice how you couldn't look at them in the face? This is because you instinctively knew that you had wronged this person by talking behind their back and pride / justification starts to creep in. When that person verbally forgives you, your able to look at them in the face again.

In other instances, it may be possible that somebody sinned against you and they were not aware that they had committed that sin. By you verbally forgiving them, it brings it to their attention in a not intrusive manner.

I believe that when the one who was trespassed against verbally forgives their trespasser, it is an act of love as I am reminded of Galatians 5. Notice that these traits and fruits will always become manifest through tangible and measurable actions...

Grace and Peace,

In beginning to respond to your post I thought...but there is no one for me to forgive and then realized...it doesn't have to be someone that has trespassed against me that I must forgive :o . That is easy. It is forgiving those that have harmed others.

If I could do that then perhaps that is the loving others I am so far....unable to do. The loving others that I must do. That is a VERY narrow path to walk.

• Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

To walk as He walked and enter that gate....I must forgive the sins others commit...hating the sin and loving the person.

• Love your enemies....For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?....Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father Which is in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:44-48

You have given me a great deal to think about....and I thank you.