The Mystic Christ! Great book for Truth Seekers!

[Soma-Sight]

Maybe my posts on this book are being deleted because I posted it in the wrong forum!

My apologies!

This book is the best I have read in the past three years on spirituality bar none. I have read a lot of Adventist, evangelical, spirtitual books but this one takes the cake!

Have you read it?

What do you think about it?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

 

[santamarana]

Maybe my posts on this book are being deleted because I posted it in the wrong forum!

My apologies!

This book is the best I have read in the past three years on spirituality bar none. I have read a lot of Adventist, evangelical, spirtitual books but this one takes the cake!

Have you read it?

What do you think about it?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

Amen to that!

Gnostic bent are you?

 

[Free]

Anyone interested in Christian spirituality should read Riding With the Lion and Mountain of Silence by Kyriacos C. Markides. They are both about his journey into "New Age" spirituality and then back out to his roots in Eastern Orthodoxy where he is introduced to a spirituality he never knew existed.

From the looks of The Mysitic Christ, it has little in common with Christianty. Gnosticism is a heresy that leads away from the true Christ and true God. There are many good books on Christian spirituality that one could read instead (check out the "Customer Review" by "Walk The Path," about the third review).

 

[santamarana]

Anyone interested in Christian spirituality should read Riding With the Lion and Mountain of Silence by Kyriacos C. Markides. They are both about his journey into "New Age" spirituality and then back out to his roots in Eastern Orthodoxy where he is introduced to a spirituality he never knew existed.

From the looks of The Mysitic Christ, it has little in common with Christianty. Gnosticism is a heresy that leads away from the true Christ and true God. There are many good books on Christian spirituality that one could read instead (check out the "Customer Review" by "Walk The Path," about the third review).

Before you judge, and condemn something you do not understand It would be good to study it out first.

Differing from the so-called "orthodox" Christians on many points, the three great Gnostic sects of the Second Century were in full agreement with Clement and Origen and the Alexandrine school, and probably with the great majority of Christians, in their views on human destiny. They taught the ultimate holiness and happiness of the human family, and it is noteworthy that though all the Gnostics advocated the final salvation of all souls, and though the orthodox fathers savagely attacked them on many points, they never reckoned their Universalism as a fault. This doctrine was not obnoxious to either orthodox or heterodox in the early centuries.

It would be interesting to give an exposition of the Gnosticism that for some of the earlier centuries agitated the Christian Church; it will suffice for our purpose here to say that its manifold phases were attempts to reach satisfactory conclusions on the great subjects of man's relations to his Maker, to his fellow-men, to himself, and to the universe--to solve the problems of time and eternity. The Gnostic philosophers in the church show the results of blending the Oriental, the Jewish, and the Platonic philosophies with the new religion. "Gnosticism, 4 was a philosophy of religion," and Christian Gnosticism was an effort to explain the new revelation philosophically. But there were Gnostics and Gnostics. Some of the Christian Fathers used the term reproachfully, and others appropriated it as one of honor. Gnosis, knowledge, philosophy applied to religion, was deemed all-important by Clement, Origen, and the most prominent of the Fathers. Mere Gnostics were only Pagan philosophers, but Christian Gnostics were those who accepted Christ as the author of a new and divine revelation, and interpreted it by those principles that had long antedated the religion of Jesus.5 "The Gnostics were the first regular commentators on the New Testament. * * * The Gnostics were also the first practitioners of the higher criticism. * * * It (Gnosticism) may be regarded as a half-way house, though which many Pagans, like Ambrosius or St. Augustine, found their way into the church." ("Neoplatonism, by Rev. Dr. Charles Bigg.) The Valentinians, Basilidians, Carpocratians, Manichæans, Marcionites and others were Christian Gnostics; but Clement, Origen and the great Alexandrians and their associates were Gnostic Christians. In fact, the Gnostic theories sought a solution of the problem of evil; to answer the question, "Can the world as we know it have been made by God?" "Cease," says Basilides, 6 "from idle and curious variety, and let us rather discuss the opinions which even barbarians have held on the subject of good and evil. * * * I will say anything rather than admit Providence is wicked." Valentinus declared, "I dare not affirm that God is the author of all this." Tertullian says that Marcion, like many men of our time, and especially the heretics, "is bewildered by the question of evil." The generally accepted Gnostic view was that while the good would at death ascend to dwell with the Father, the wicked would pass through transformations until purified.

Says Prof. Allen: "Gnosticism is a genuine and legitimate outgrowth of the same general movement of thought that shaped the Christian dogma. Quite evidently it regarded itself as the true interpreter of the Gospel." Baur quotes a German writer as giving a full exposition of one of the latest attempts "to bring back Gnosticism to a greater harmony with the spirit of Christianity." Briefly, sophia (wisdom), as the type of mankind, falls, rises, and is united to the eternal Good. Baur says that Gnosticism declares that "either through conversion and amendment, or through utter annihilation, evil is to disappear, and the final goal of the whole world process is to be reached, viz., the purification of the universe from all that is unworthy and perverted." Harnack says that Gnosticism "aimed at the winning of a world-religion. The Gnostics were the theologians of the First Century; they were the first to transform Christianity into a system of doctrines (dogmas). They essayed * * * to conquer Christianity for Hellenic culture and Hellenic culture from Christianity."7

From J.W. Hanson.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html

 

[Free]

Before you judge, and condemn something you do not understand It would be good to study it out first.

I do understand it and that is precisely why I condemn it, as do Scripture and the Church.

 

[santamarana]

Before you judge, and condemn something you do not understand It would be good to study it out first.

I do understand it and that is precisely why I condemn it, as do Scripture and the Church.

Point to me a verse of scripture that condemns it.

How do you understand it. Have you searched to see if these things are so?
If not you are blind not knowing the scriptures.
1st Tim 6:20
20O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

And do not tell me that this is what scripture is speaking about. Rather it is refeered to those wanting to go back into bondage to the law mixed with pagan ideas.

All I ask is that you "... may be able to [1] entreat with sound teaching as well as to [2] expose those who contradict" (Titus 1:9, Concordant NT).

Expose what "you say" is contradictory to sound teaching (That is from your one sided views of orthodoxy"

 

[Free]

Point to me a verse of scripture that condemns it.

Sure.

1 John 4:1-3, "1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already."

Gnosticism teaches that spirit is good and matter is bad. And this is what John is directly addressing since it undermines who Christ is and his death and resurrection. This teaching also directly contradicts that God created things material and called them good. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

How do you understand it. Have you searched to see if these things are so?

Of course I have searched and studied these things. I try not to speak from ignorance.

Expose what "you say" is contradictory to sound teaching (That is from your one sided views of orthodoxy"

Keep in mind that "my" orthodoxy on this subject lines up with 2000 years of Christian orthodoxy.

 

[santamarana]

Point to me a verse of scripture that condemns it.

Sure.

1 John 4:1-3, "1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already."

Gnosticism teaches that spirit is good and matter is bad. And this is what John is directly addressing since it undermines who Christ is and his death and resurrection. This teaching also directly contradicts that God created things material and called them good. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

How do you understand it. Have you searched to see if these things are so?

Of course I have searched and studied these things. I try not to speak from ignorance.

Expose what "you say" is contradictory to sound teaching (That is from your one sided views of orthodoxy"

Keep in mind that "my" orthodoxy on this subject lines up with 2000 years of Christian orthodoxy.

1 John 4:1-3, "1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit (teaching), but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets (Teachers)have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (Christ in you) is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already."

Most False prophets today (Teachers) do not teach where the Kingdom of God is or where Christ is.

Col 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

I thought Christ is sitting on a throne uo in heaven somewhere?

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Are you not the temple not made with hands?
Are you not a dwelling place made for God?

But Christianity teaches that it is the Holy Soirit that is in you?
Well lets see.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter ( parakletos), which is the HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Comforter: {Greek} parakletos
Comforter, Advocate.

Advocate:
1st Joh 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate ( parakletos) with the Father, JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS:

What happened to the third member of the trinity?

I do not agree with everything that gnosticism teaches either, nor orthodoxy.
But I do agree with alot of things they have taught. This being one of them.
God within you, The Kingdom within you, Perceiving who you are.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What happened to the third member of the trinity?

Lets see what the scriptures say about the material body.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please (Agree with) God.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption (Flesh) inherit incorruption (Spirit).

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption (Material Flesh); it is raised in incorruption (Spiritual Body):

43It is sown in dishonour (Flesh); it is raised in glory (Spirit): it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body (Flesh); it is raised a spiritual body (New Creation). There is a natural body Material), and there is a spiritual body (New Creation).

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul (Material Flesh); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Spiritual, New Creation).

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth (Dust), earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven (Spirit).

48As is the earthy (Adam), such are they also that are earthy (Corruption): and as is the heavenly (Christ), such are they also that are heavenly (Incorruption).

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Adam), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Christ).

Does "Orthodoxy" teach this? Not a bit.

God created everything good for the purpose it was intended for.
God never said it was perfect. That is another lie that Orthodoxy has told you.
I will give you some of the reason "why we are here."

A great and wise creator GOD PUT US HERE. He started the human family.

God is not stupid, He had a grand and eternal purpose in mind for making mankind.

God has many attributes, powers, knowledge, etc., that obviously mankind DOES NOT. But, God DOES WANT us to have those same attributes, especially LOVE!

Qualities of character such as Love are not instantaneously created, they must be developed. That development takes a creation, circumstances, and time. And so, God creates all these things necessary for their development.

Although God is GOOD, He nonetheless has a knowledge and understanding of both good AND EVIL. And so we TOO much come to an understanding of both good and evil. Why? Because ALL KNOWLEDGE hinges on their proper understanding.

People say things without ever realizing how stupid or impossible their thoughts or statements are. Most Christians suppose that if Adam and Eve had not sinned, then we all would STILL, right now, be enjoying the beautiful life of happiness and bliss in a fabulous garden of Eden. NOT SO!!! Adam and Eve did NOT appreciate what they had with God in the garden before they sinned. They had NO CONTRAST to compare it with.

Now here is a key piece of understanding and wisdom. God wants CHILDREN. God is building a FAMILY. Children are to grow up and have the attributes of their parents. But these things must be LEARNED BY EXPERIENCE! Not only didn't Adam and Eve appreciate what they had, they ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT have appreciated what they had, because they experienced ONLY GOOD.

Try to come up with even ONE VIRTUE, such as love, patience, honesty, goodness, faithfulness, loyalty, obedience, bravery, etc., etc., etc., ANYTHING of a virtuous nature, that does not involve the overcoming of SOME FORM OF EVIL! There is you answer! There IS NO VIRTUE, NO CHARACTER, NO STABILITY of any kind in any one, except he overcomes some form of EVIL.

Now can you see why we are here? Now can you see why there is not only good, but so much evil in the world? It is necessary! God did not put it here simply to make us miserable! God is NOT in a battle for supremacy with Satan. God CREATED Satan. God USES Satan. And Satan too, will be saved after he has done all of his dirty work. God will make him repent.

God is enlarging His family into BILLIONS of sons and daughters. This life is part of the training ground to be the very SONS OF GOD.

All evil including DEATH itself will be abolished when God has used them to bring His family to a level of love and righteousness that He desires. We will then inherit all that God has and all that God is. God is truly OUR FATHER.

I don't think you have searched these things out with an open mind.. At least not without having a dualistic thinking involved. Or better yet being biased about.

It's a truth that when we want to see the wrong in something we will find it and in doing this you miss the truth of the whole matter.

 

[Free]

Do you really want to get into a discussion on Gnosticism? I can see that you have not studied it and are somewhat ignorant of what it teaches. It is heresy and those who accept its teachings cannot be Christians as the two are fundamentally inconsistent with each other.

Comforter: {Greek} parakletos
Comforter, Advocate.

Advocate:
1st Joh 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate ( parakletos) with the Father, JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS:

What happened to the third member of the trinity?

Not sure what your point is.

Does "Orthodoxy" teach this? Not a bit.

Teach what?

A quick skim of the rest of your post doesn't really say anything against orthodox Christian belief, so I am not sure what your point is with all that either.

 

[santamarana]

Do you really want to get into a discussion on Gnosticism? I can see that you have not studied it and are somewhat ignorant of what it teaches. It is heresy and those who accept its teachings cannot be Christians as the two are fundamentally inconsistent with each other.

Comforter: {Greek} parakletos
Comforter, Advocate.

Advocate:
1st Joh 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate ( parakletos) with the Father, JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS:

What happened to the third member of the trinity?

Not sure what your point is.

[quote:ae5df]Does "Orthodoxy" teach this? Not a bit.

Teach what?

A quick skim of the rest of your post doesn't really say anything against orthodox Christian belief, so I am not sure what your point is with all that either.[/quote:ae5df]

Quote:
"It is heresy and those who accept its teachings cannot be Christians"

By whose authority? The organized institute of religious intolerence?

And by the way who are you to even assume who is a "Christian" and who is not?

Not everyone who confess Christ as Lord and saviour will enter the Kingdom of God.

"Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?"

1st John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1st John 3:11
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1st John 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1st John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Just a side note: brethren means all men not just your own kind (As most Christians assume) Or Christ would have never said Love your enemy or
Matt 12:48-50

48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I don't think you understood what I was saying.

I said I do not agree with everything that Gnosticism says.

And I do not agree with everything orthodoxy says.

There is truth in gnosticism, and there is truth in orthodoxy.

Here is an example of the lies propagated by orthodoxy.

The Vicarious Atonement.

the doctrine of vicarious atonement flies in the face of this verse:

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

1. The atonement was not to satisfy God's Justice, but to reveal His Love.
2. The justice of God is not against the sinner, demanding his condemnation, but for him, insuring his salvation.
3. God is not in contrast with, much less in opposition to Christ in the atonement, but in perfect harmony and accord.
4. The atonement is not the exclusive work of Christ in order to reconcile God unto the world, but it is the work of "God in Christ" to reconcile the world unto himself.
5. Christ does not have to plead with God in order to make him willing to pardon the sinner, but God, by his ministers, "beseeches" (II Cor. 5:20) the sinner to make them willing to be pardoned.
6. Hence the atonement is not to propitiate God, but man; not to make God favorably disposed toward man, but to make his already existing favor known to man.
7. Christ did not die as our substitute, but as our companion and associate; not instead of man, but with him and for him.
8. Christ did not die to save us from the penalty of sin, but from sin itself.
9. Christ did not die that we might not die, but to deliver us out of a death in which we were already involved.
10. The sinner is not redeemed because he repents, but he is called upon to repent because he has been redeemed.
11. The atonement is not the cause of God's love to man, giving rise to that love, but the effect, flowing out of that love.
12. The final outcome of the atoning scheme is not a partial success, but a perfect, absolute, and universal triumph!
In every one of these particulars, the popular theology is just the opposite of the truth.

Here is truth regarding gnosticism.

"The images are visible to humanity, but the light within them is hidden in the image.
" The light of the Father will reveal itself, but his image is hidden by his light."

"Whoever will drink from my mouth will become like me.
I myself will become he,
and what is hidden will be revealed to him."

Jesus saw infants being suckled.
He said to his disciples:
"These little ones being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him: "Then will we enter the kingdom as little ones?"
Jesus said to them: "When you make the two into one,
and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside
and the above like the below –
that is, to make the male and the female into a single one,
so that the male will not be male and the female will not be female –
and when you make eyes instead of an eye
and a hand instead of a hand and a foot instead of a foot,
an image instead of an image, (7) then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Jesus says:
"If those who lead you say to you: ‘Look, the kingdom is in the sky!’
then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you: ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fishes will precede you.
Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and outside of you."
"When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known,
and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father.
But if you do not come to know yourselves, then you exist in poverty, and you are poverty."

Is this contrdictory to what Christ taught?
I don't think so.

 

[soma]

Fake Christians will burn books as the first step to burning people. We read the Bible and other books. Some only read the Bible and are afraid of every dark shadow because they don't think God is the strongest force.