The New Testament Church

[dadof10]

What did the NT church look like? I'm sure we would all agree that the NT era started with Christ, but when did the NT church age end? After the last Apostle died? Around 300 AD? To answer these questions, do we look at Scripture only or do we look at other historical documents of the first few centuries?

In the immortal words of Ted Nugent "Baby, I do declare, it's a free-for-all..."

Just kidding, Vic. Please keep it respectful.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Here is my two cents worth. When I look at a baby picture of me, it doesnt look anything like me. But yet it is me. I grow, I learn, I mature (sort of ) but its still me, the same person.

So it is with the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is a living organism, not a static unit. It lives, it grows, it learns.

My point is: Who cares what the early Church looked like? Who wants to go backwards and regress in understanding? Would I want to go back to loading my diapers again? Thinking the Church should look like the early Church reflects a real misunderstanding of the Body of Christ, and it irks me when people propose that it should.

when did the NT church age end

If I'm not mistaken, we have:

-The Apostolic age (ended with death of the last apostle)
- Pre-Nicene fathers (up to 325 AD)
- Nicene fathers
- Post nicene fathers (325 AD to approximately 600 or 700 AD)

 

[dadof10]

Here is my two cents worth. When I look at a baby picture of me, it doesnt look anything like me. Buy yet it is me. I grow, I learn, I mature (sort of ) but its still me, the same person.

But you are still the same person. Don't you think (I know you do ) that there should be a consistancy of doctrine from the first century on? You couldn't turn into (God forbid) me, yet still call yourself CC, you would have to change your name to "doofus" .

So it is with the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is a living organism, not a static unit. It lives, it grows, it learns.

Yes, but it still needs to remain what it started out as.

 

[Bick]

What did the NT church look like? I'm sure we would all agree that the NT era started with Christ, but when did the NT church age end? After the last Apostle died? Around 300 AD? To answer these questions, do we look at Scripture only or do we look at other historical documents of the first few centuries?

In the immortal words of Ted Nugent "Baby, I do declare, it's a free-for-all..."

Just kidding, Vic. Please keep it respectful.

MY COMMENTS: The NT church looks like people, ordinary people. We are part of the NT church, the body of Christ that started, IMO, with Paul our apostle and teacher.

Now, the early church/body of Christ was made up of believers in many cities around the Meditterranean Sea, mostly from the preaching of Paul and the other apostles with him or on their own journeys. For many years the only "scriptures" were those read from the Hebrew Scriptures.
Then, by 70 A.D., the books and epistles of the NT were written and distributed among the churches

I believe we are presently in an administration of the church body, sometimes called "secret", for secrets concerning the body of Christ have been kept secret or hidden in God from the ages, but revealed to Paul, who sets forth these mysteries in his epistles.

I don't believe there is a "church age" that has ended. I believe God is still calling out believers to fill the body of Christ, and only God knows this number. When completed, it will be caught away to meet the Lord in the air, and then to be experiencing the blessings of God as his heirs and joint-heirs with Christ. This will be before Daniel's 70th week. This present age will end with the coming to earth of Christ in power and great glory to defeat his enemies and rescue his people, Israel. Then, the Messianic age will commence lasting at least 1000 years, with Messiah Jesus on the throne, and believing Israelites as co-rulers over all the nations.

I'm not aware when the last apostle died. Certainly, we are told in Ephesians, the last of the prison epistles, that when Christ ascended on high, "he gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." Eph. 4:11-13, NIV.

It is my opinion, that once the Word of God was completed and distributed, apostles and prophets were not necessary.

Bick

 

[freeway]

My two cents.. and I may get change back on this one :-D ....
I think the NT church is still alive and well today.. after all was it not set up by Jesus. People believing in the Son of God. Jesus said "On this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not over come it" well Jesus hasn't come back yet "if he did I'm in deep do do" : So I believe that as long as the return of Christ has not happened his church will grow... 8-)

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Yes, but it still needs to remain what it started out as.

Yes and No:

Yes, it does, in the sense that I am still the same peson that I was when I was born - I still have the same spirit that God infused into me at conception. I am me. It also needs to to have the samed strucure that Jesus gave it, with authoratative teachers, lead by one who has primacy. (Is that what you were talking about?)

No, in the sense that we know more now, understand more now, and, dare I say, in certain ways, we know things the apostles did not know, such as how to articulate the Trinity - such as John Apocolyptic vision of heaven which Peter may not have known about since he died in 67 AD.

....I think the NT church is still alive and well today.. after all was it not set up by Jesus. People believing in the Son of God. Jesus said "On this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not over come it". well Jesus hasn't come back yet....

I can agree with that. Although you and I would likeley disagree on what that Church actually is, that statement is essentialy correct.

 

[lovely]

I find myself in general agreement with Bick's post.

I believe that church membership (If there is such a thing) is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but that this is of a church of ordinary people dispersed (due to false teachers, and by the Lord's will) throughout the world, and generations, all to be gathered back together in Christ. So, as believers (one church) we are seen by God, known fully only to Him, but are functioning as a body still...and as effectively as God desires through the gifts that He has given for the edification of that body. We will continue grow to the fullness of Christ, and it seems that God is using the current condition for that purpose.

The Lord bless all of you.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I find myself in general agreement with Bick's post.

I believe that church membership (If there is such a thing) is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.....

I would agree. I would simply say that this, while true, is merely one aspect of it. I think there is more.

 

[dadof10]

Yes, but it still needs to remain what it started out as.

Yes and No:

Yes, it does, in the sense that I am still the same peson that I was when I was born - I still have the same spirit that God infused into me at conception. I am me. It also needs to to have the samed strucure that Jesus gave it, with authoratative teachers, lead by one who has primacy. (Is that what you were talking about?)

Yes. I think doctrine can develop like you (I assume ) did, but it can not change.

 

[dadof10]

I believe we are presently in an administration of the church body, sometimes called "secret", for secrets concerning the body of Christ have been kept secret or hidden in God from the ages, but revealed to Paul, who sets forth these mysteries in his epistles.

Could you please elaborate?

It is my opinion, that once the Word of God was completed and distributed, apostles and prophets were not necessary.

What do you mean by "the Word of God"? Scripture alone? And when was It "completed and distributed"?

 

[Catholic Crusader]

It is my opinion, that once the Word of God was completed and distributed, apostles and prophets were not necessary.

Do you have Biblical support for that position? Did Jesus say to the apostles, "Go ye forth and make disciples of all nations, until Paul writes some letters, then go get a real job" ?

 

[freeway]

Yes, but it still needs to remain what it started out as.

Yes and No:

Yes, it does, in the sense that I am still the same peson that I was when I was born - I still have the same spirit that God infused into me at conception. I am me. It also needs to to have the samed strucure that Jesus gave it, with authoratative teachers, lead by one who has primacy. (Is that what you were talking about?)

No, in the sense that we know more now, understand more now, and, dare I say, in certain ways, we know things the apostles did not know, such as how to articulate the Trinity - such as John Apocolyptic vision of heaven which Peter may not have known about since he died in 67 AD.

....I think the NT church is still alive and well today.. after all was it not set up by Jesus. People believing in the Son of God. Jesus said "On this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not over come it". well Jesus hasn't come back yet....

I can agree with that. Although you and I would likeley disagree on what that Church actually is, that statement is essentialy correct.

Catholic Crusader you sir are so very true.... I am sure we will differ on certain thing about each others church.. but thats ok.. because as long as we agree that Jesus Christ is door way to heaven the rest we put on it.. well that human... side note.. members of my family are Catholic and are born again.. but I still love them :

God Bless.................freeway01

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

What did the NT church look like?

It was a collection of individuals that had been taught and believed that Jesus of Narazeth was the Christ was killed for the sins of the world, resurrected from the dead, ascended to the right hand of the FATHER, and was coming back in judgment on his and their enemies and to collect them, reward them, and grant them lasting life in His kingdom.
These individuals were spread out and identifiy as congregational units based on their localities. There was the Jerusalem congregation made up of believers living in Judea, the Corinthian congregation, the Philipian congregation, etc. Each congregation was to have leadership and that leadership was to be comprised of elders that desired and were qualified to be overseers of God's people in a given locality. These elders watched out for the wellbeing of their local brethren and strived to set excellent examples for their brethren to follow. Within the brotherhood were "gifted" individuals that had varying measures of power given to them by God's Holy Spirit. Some were prophets, some had the power to heal, others even had the ability to speak and/or interpret unlearned languages. Collectively they were each bodies of believers that were encouraged to love one another, live holy and acceptable lives in fear of God,
The head of the entire collection of congregations was Jesus and they all awaited his seemingly imminent return as they continued in the faith and endured whatever hardships and persecutions came their way.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What did the NT church look like?

It was a collection of individuals that had been taught and believed that Jesus of Narazeth was the Christ was killed for the sins of the world, resurrected from the dead, ascended to the right hand of the FATHER, and was coming back in judgment on his and their enemies and to collect them, reward them, and grant them lasting life in His kingdom.
These individuals were spread out and identifiy as congregational units based on their localities. There was the Jerusalem congregation made up of believers living in Judea, the Corinthian congregation, the Philipian congregation, etc. Each congregation was to have leadership and that leadership was to be comprised of elders that desired and were qualified to be overseers of God's people in a given locality. These elders watched out for the wellbeing of their local brethren and strived to set excellent examples for their brethren to follow. Within the brotherhood were "gifted" individuals that had varying measures of power given to them by God's Holy Spirit. Some were prophets, some had the power to heal, others even had the ability to speak and/or interpret unlearned languages. Collectively they were each bodies of believers that were encouraged to love one another, live holy and acceptable lives in fear of God,
The head of the entire collection of congregations was Jesus and they all awaited his seemingly imminent return as they continued in the faith and endured whatever hardships and persecutions came their way.

Yeah, right.

But seriously...

What I'm amazed at is that God has allowed what we're doing now to go on for centuries.

I know your case is for a different sense of leadership structure, but I'm convinced the fundamental problem is with leadership itself, period. We keep propagating the error of those in leadership, adding more error as we go along, until we have what we have now.

I'm not singling everyone out who is in leadership in the church, so don't get on the defensive if you are in official church leadership, please. We all learn, right or wrong, what the last generation taught us.