The Omniscience Of God

[Lewis]

I remember years ago' I heard on the radio' a man who said that God does not know everything. So you know he had my attention, because I know that God does know everything. But below' these are the 2 Scriptures that he pointed out. Notice the words (for now I know.) And the second one' (and if not, I will know.)
So I want some of your thoughts on this. Bible believers only please.


Genesis 22:12
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: (for now I know ) that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.


Genesis 18:21
I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; (and if not, I will know.)

 

[Lewis]

Hmmmm' to hard huh ?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Hmmmm' to hard huh ?

Very difficult indeed.

I can tell you that there have been times when I have asked God to 'visit' a place or a group of people, and have felt his presence in the situation like never before.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Lewis,
I went back and read Gen. 18 again. If you notice that there were three men who visited Abraham in this passage.

Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him....

I believe that this verse is the Lord having a conversation with the other two men.
Gen 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

There has been a lot of debate about this, but if you drop down to Gen 19:1, you will see that two angels went out to Sodom. KJV simply says two angels. Many other translations say "THE two angels".

Gen 19:1 ¶ And there came two angels to Sodom at even...

In that light, I believe that what we see in this passage is the Lord conversing with two of His angels. Perhaps he was taking these angels on a brief tour so that they could see what was happening before he sent them to tell Lot to leave the city so it could be destroyed.

I learned many years ago that when the Lord is asking questions that He is not looking for an update in information. When He asks about something, He already knows. Sometimes He wants the person that He is speaking to to know, and asking questions is a great way to make someone think for themselves. ( Kind of like the tests we used to take in school that were in question form. The teacher already knew the answer.) Other times when God asks questions He is looking for a confession.

An example of this is in Genesis chapter 3 where God is questioning Adam and Eve. Where are you? Did you eat the fruit from the tree? If Adam had said "I blew it Lord. I am sorry, please forgive me.", instead of "It was her fault", well the world might be a very different place today.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

The word "Now"

Strong's 06258 - `attah {at-taw'}

This is the word
- now, whereas, henceforth, this time forth, straightway;

Strongs says that the word that was translated as 'now' can also mean 'from this time forth'. I heard a sermon once on this passage, that made a lot of sense to me.

The reason that God called Abraham to offer Isaac in the first place is because Isaac had almost gained 'idol' status in Abraham's eyes. The reason God was testing Abraham was to see if he was willing to put things in proper order.

Another purpose in this test was to let Abraham prove to himself that God was first in his life, and that he did trust the Lord.

Jesus said:
Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

There is a valuable lesson here. If you were to take the words 'his life' and replace it with a blank, then put anything else in that blank it would still hold true. He who seeks to save his son ...

It could be that it was this event that caused Abrahams faith to become sure.

Does it make it clearer, or does it change the meaning of the verse in Genesis 22:12, to say: I know that thou fearest God, 'from this time forth'... or perhaps 'from this time forth thou fearest God...and God is aware of it.

 

[Lewis]

Here is some stuff Gabby

The Omniscience of God: Does the Lord Really Know Everything?
http://www.founders.org/FJ46/article1_fr.html

The Omniscience of God
http://www.whatthebibleteaches.com/wbt_070.htm

A Body of Doctrinal Divinity
Book 1â€â€Chapter 9
Of The Omniscience Of God
http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/ ... ok1_09.htm

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Hey Lewis,

The links on your links are pretty awesome too!

http://www.hubblespacephotos.com/ http://www.hubblespacephotos.com/a-thumbs.html

http://www.godonthe.net/

http://www.messianicseder.com/

:

 

[Lewis]

Thanks Gabby' I had not noticed them' they are nice.

 

[unred typo]

The question was once asked of me by an atheist because he thought it proved that God did not know everything there is to be known, since he didn’t even know the wickedness of the Sodomites without coming down to see it. The question was simple to explain. The Lord sent two of the angels to Sodom to see if the men there were so wicked that they would try to molest even heavenly beings. It was a test to see what the Sodomites would do. The other angel stayed with Abraham to talk with him.

This is an example of the Lord testing men to see what is in their hearts and how they will act in different situations. We are all tested every day. I believe we are even tested at night in our dreams, to see what we really will do when faced with fearful or embarrassing or pleasant circumstances that we probably wouldn’t encounter in our lives. For instance, if God wants to see if you are still angry with your brother even though you say you have forgiven him, he can cause you to dream about some instance between the two of you where you will be given the option of acting differently than you did in real life. If you grab the gun that materializes in your dream and shoot him, he knows you still have murder in your heart to work out.

He could have tested the Sodomites the same way but then we wouldn’t have this insight into how God operates. These things are written to show us the real state of our relationship with God.

 

[Solo]

Do the Scriptures say that God tests man? Or do the Scriptures say that God does not test man?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Do the Scriptures say that God tests man? Or do the Scriptures say that God does not test man?

Gen 22:1 ¶ And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, [here] I [am].

 

[unred typo]

Do the Scriptures say that God tests man? Or do the Scriptures say that God does not test man?

I think the Bible means that God doesn’t tempt man to do evil the way that the devil lures men into sin by appeals to their lusts. God does test men and put their faith to a trial to determine how strong it is.

 

[Solo]

I believe that Unred is correct and that the verse that Gabby has provided sheds light on the following verses:

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13-14

God tries an individual's faith by obedience, but does not tempt individual's flesh to commit trangressions.

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Genesis 22:1-2

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried (same word translated tempted in James 1:13-14), offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Hebrews 11:17-19

 

[Relic]

I remember years ago' I heard on the radio' a man who said that God does not know everything. So you know he had my attention, because I know that God does know everything.

Omniscience and a testing of the spirit of a person.....

Well, some people seem to think old Saint Nick (Santa Clause) is omniscient
and puts you to the test to see if you've been bad or good. :roll:

You better watch out, You better not cry,
Better not pout, I'm telling you why.
Santa Clause is coming to town!

He's making a list and He's checking it twice,
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice.
Santa Clause is coming to town!

He sees you when you're sleeping,
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good.
So be good for goodness sake!

Oh! You better watch out, You better not cry,
Better not pout, I'm telling you why,
Santa Clause is coming to town!

:x-mas: :silly:

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Omniscience and a testing of the spirit of a person.....

Well, some people seem to think old Saint Nick (Santa Clause) is omniscient
and puts you to the test to see if you've been bad or good. :roll:

You better watch out, You better not cry,
Better not pout, I'm telling you why.
Santa Clause is coming to town!

He's making a list and He's checking it twice,
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice.
Santa Clause is coming to town!

He sees you when you're sleeping,
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good.
So be good for goodness sake!

Oh! You better watch out, You better not cry,
Better not pout, I'm telling you why,
Santa Clause is coming to town!

:x-mas: :silly:

These are just some of the qualities that put him in the category of idol. He passes out rewards based on works. He has supernatural characteristics. He is worshiped by children and adults alike. Even those who know the truth are guilty of perpetuating the lie. He makes his appearance to distract us during a time when our thoughts should be on the Lord Jesus Christ.
The cute and cuddly transformed angel of light seems to be leading us to break a few of the commandments of our omniscient Holy Righteous God.

Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
Exd 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.


All man made idols have attributes imputed on them that are attributes of the one true God. Omniscience is usually one of them.

 

[Relic]

Gabbylittleangel,

I agree whole heartedly that Santa 'Saint Nick' has been aggrandized to the point of some people forgetting that "Jesus" is the reason for the season, not Old Saint Nick/santa clause. Yes, Santa being aggrandized to the point of being not much differently than how the catholics have aggrandized the various saints and give prayer and homage to them paying too much attention to them, instead of Christ Jesus.

John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

By the way, Saint Nicholas was actually a very nice man who gave away his inheritance to poor children. See story of Who is Nicholas: http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38



But now, getting back onto the subject of being omniscient...
Here is something to ponder and might be cause, for some, to be confused... about what it means to be "included in the omniscience of God" ....

Christ said, I and the Father are one.... John 10:30

John 10:27-30
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:37-38
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


So then, we all know that Jesus knew the secrets of people, as well as the future of people. And that being so, and since God IS omniscient (all knowing) and Christ being ONE with the Father, IS then also omniscient, does that then mean we, being IN Christ, are also one with the Father, and therefore, also omniscient as is the father, that is...once we have left our earthly bodies to be with Him in heaven? And so, why then wouldn't Saint Nick also be able to know this or that being in the holy spirit as he is now in heaven also? Just something to think about....

Can you or anyone else explain why our own spirit would not be omniscient also once our spirit has left the earthly body?


John 17:11
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

1 Corinthians 8:4-6
6. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Hi Relic,

This is a link to a post I made yesterday on "God ~ The Holy Spirit"

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 8&start=60

Maybe this will give you an idea of what I believe is in some way an understanding of the Trinity.

BTW, I have heard the story of Nicholas. The problem with that is that Nicholas is a totally different person from the character that is based on him. There is not a child in the world that is laying in bed on Dec. 24th waiting to see if they can hear Nicholas up on the roof.