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The Origins of Religion

One thing I noticed from the article was where it talked about early humans developing religious beliefs and beliefs in the supernatural by the way they interacted with the environment. While I can see this as a possibility for indigenous people, I don't think it is how God interacted with the first humans. Even if you believe in Theistic Evolution you believe Adam & Eve were the first humans, correct? They seemed be able to talk directly with God and did not have to look at superstitious things in the environment to figure out that there is a creator.
 
Barbarian said:
I'm not so well-disposed to sociobiology, from which social evolution comes. However, it is true that societies compete for scarce resources in the same way that organisms or populations do. Hence, it is true that altruism, honesty, courage, loyalty and kindness have survival value for societies.

Kinship selection is a measurable fact in biology, and no doubt it works in humans, too. If people are altruistic toward others to the degree that they share genes with them, their genes are likely to be continued in the population. It was Jesus' great message that all humans should be one kinship group. He repeatedly wove that message into almost everything He taught. It often runs contrary to human behavior, but it is not only what He wants, it's inherently good for mankind.

And it's written in natural law, more fundamental than kinship selection. As the Chinese proverb has it, even the worst brigand, seeing a child poised at the edge of a well, feels an urge to run and save it. What Jesus is asking is for us to follow our own created nature which He gave to us, and to resist the evil which He did not give to us, but came from the rebellion of our first parents. There are sociobiological explanations for this, of course.

Sometimes two truths juxtapose nicely. As one wise person observed, truth cannot oppose truth. Oh, and I am a teacher. Sorry about that.
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Thank you for the change in approach, Barbarian. I appreciate it. It's good to know that you're an actual teacher, instead of someone who uses that teaching tone as a way to put another down a notch or two. (I've seen that done in a different forum. So I'm sorry for my reaction.). If you can, please try to treat these conversations online as if it's not in a classroom, even though sometimes the topics might overlap classroom subjects. That said though, what do you teach? Or what age group? If I can ask I mean.

Back to the points, I think the cultural glue that religion supplies, does help keep a society together. On that I don't doubt. Different religions do this, whether they are right or wrong by being accurate, or whether they are moral or not. In the Old Testiment Isreal was kicking out another sinful population out of the promised land that God was giving them. And part of that was to reject the religions and idols that came from those lands. From laws to only worship God, to laws to not sacrifice their children in a ritual sacrifice, the struggle to remove the other religous practices is a constant battle in the history of Isreal. I would not always say religion creates the altruistic characterists you described for the benifit of society. Hopefully though the ones that don't lean in that direction are few.

That said, I have two other thoughts. What if the basis of societies evolving from something else is in error? What I mean is that what if societies always existed as long as there was a population large enough to make them? And the other thought is that if God always existed, then the worship of Him wasn't an evolved thing after the development of religion. There may have always been religion in the sence of having a relationship with God, worshiping Him, and seeking Him. Other religions may have come later, but if God is real, and always existed, then religion may be as old as mankind, not developed after needing morals to make society, or to cope with the elements in the world.

Just some thoughts.
 
Not_Now.Soon said:
if God always existed, then the worship of Him wasn't an evolved thing after the development of religion. There may have always been religion in the sence of having a relationship with God, worshiping Him, and seeking Him. Other religions may have come later, but if God is real, and always existed, then religion may be as old as mankind, not developed after needing morals to make society, or to cope with the elements in the world.
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This is what I was thinking, you just explained it better.
 
The posted article, through suggestive terminology, tends to conflate three separate things, superstition, religion, and God. The term God refers to that which is eternal. Hence, the energy we see in creation came from somewhere. That is neither superstition nor religion. Religion is a common belief shared by a group of people. Superstition is an unjustified belief. Consequently, the article is not even comprehensive.
 
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Barbarian said:
It comes down to evidence. Science works by making inferences from evidence. Hence, gravitation and evolution are accepted as facts, because the evidence for them is overwhelming. Philosophy used to be grounded in evidence, but today, less so. And this is why scientists generally agree, while philosophers seem to have trouble agreeing, even on very basic things.



Science is unable to have such a foundation, since it can only use physical evidence. The supernatural is entirely beyond the reach of science; it can neither deny nor affirm God. Fortunately, scientists are not limited to science.



Proof, in the sense of logical certainty, is not part of science. It's more like the legal notion of proof, that is of evidence sufficient to make denial unreasonable. But there certainly is abundant proof for evolution, beginning with directly observed speciation, through numerous predictions of fossil intermediates later found, though genetic evidence, confirming phylogenies by anatomical or fossil evidence, and so on. Would you like to see some of it?

Science has been spectacularly successful at understanding the physical universe. It has led many people to envy the position of science in our culture, and sometimes seduced them into trying to recruit science to support their religious ideas. That is always a mistake.
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Does science agree with anything in the Bible?
 
True science agrees with the Bible:

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20 NIV

However, there are many things science does not understand. It is in these unknown areas that unbelievers interject their personal opinions.
 
It is good to see that for the most part this thread is going pretty well as far as it not turning into a nasty debate. There are a lot of people including me who would rather discuss these topics informally and do not want to venture into the Christianity and Science forum.
 
The first human beings, would have been asking themselfs philosophical questions like why am i here, who am I, what am i doing here, what is this place, where is everyone, how did we get here. They would have talked alot to themselves in there minds, because communication with each other would have been difficult as they would not have had an established language. Like ogga bogga. Adam would have pointed to the sun and said boo, and Eve would have said boo, and the sun was then called boo. lol.

Not like these days, people are too distracted by satan than to look for God.
 
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kiwidan said:
The first human beings, would have been asking themselfs philosophical questions like why am i here, who am I, what am i doing here, what is this place, where is everyone, how did we get here. They would have talked alot to themselves in there minds, because communication with each other would have been difficult as they would not have had an established language. Like ogga bogga. Adam would have pointed to the sun and said boo, and Eve would have said boo, and the sun was then called boo. lol.

Not like these days, people are too distracted by satan than to look for God.
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I assume that your description is an example from the point of view of the scientist in the article?
 
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