The penalties for apostasy in Islam

[Gary]

The penalties for apostasy in Islam

Whoever falls away from faith in Islam commits -- from an Islamic perspective -- an unforgivable sin. He takes himself away from Allah, his owner -- which is theft -- and weakens the Islamic state, an action branded as revolt or insurrection. He who falls away from Islam must, according to the Sharia, be prosecuted, taken into custody by force, and called on to repent. If necessary, his return is to be "helped" along with torture. He who does not embrace Islam again has, according to the Sharia, forfeited his life and is to be put to death by the state.

Read more here: http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/ilaw/

:o :o

 

[Nicolaj]

So when did God change the rules if God and Allah are the same?.....Our

God gives us freewill.


Another difference between the :angel: and the :evil:

 

[laila]

Hi all

Gary, your subject here is very interesting , before any Judgement about this issue in Islam you must study the beginning history in Islam to understand this situation , also I think we don't have any verses in Quraan which call Muslims to do that

Allah ask us to take our responsibility about what we believe in it:

"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."
Translation of the Quran 17:36

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance." Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

The Glorious Qur'an says, "Let there be no compulsion in the religion: Surely the Right Path is clearly distinct from the crooked path." Al Baqarah, 2:256.

"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path." Surah An-Nisa', 4:137.

For example, the Qur'an says: "Let him who wishes to believe, do so; and let him who wishes to disbelieve, do so." (Al-Kahf: 29)

In another verse, Allah Almighty says: "Yours is only the duty to convey the message; you are not a guardian over them." (Al-Ghashiyah: 21- 22)

The quotation from Surah An-Nisa', 4:137, shown above, seems to imply that multiple, sequential apostasies are possible. That would not be possible if the person were executed after the first apostasy.

From the above verses it can be argued that religious freedom and the absence of compulsion in religion requires that individuals be allowed adopt a religion or to convert to another religion without legal penalty.

Hence the death penalty is not an appropriate response to apostasy.

The former Chief Justice of Pakistan, SA Rahman, has written that there is no reference to the death penalty in any of the 20 instances of apostasy mentioned in the Qur'an.

Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy use as their foundation the above cited hadith, in which the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: "Kill whoever changes his religion." But this is a weak foundation because this hadith was only transmitted from Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. It was not confirmed by a second person. According to Islamic law, this is insufficient confirmation to impose the death penalty. The Shari`ah has not fixed any punishment for apostasy.


The hadith is so generally worded that it would require the death penalty for a Christian or Jew who converted to Islam. This is obviously not the prophet's intent. The hadith is in need of further specification, which has not been documented. Many scholars interpret this passage as referring only to instances of high treason. (e.g. declaring war on Islam, Muhammad (pbuh), God, etc.).

There is no historical record, which indicates that Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy.
The issue of killing a murtad or the apostate is not a simple one. Scholars have debated it from various angles and it is not simply an issue of killing someone for choosing one religion or another.

The question of apostasy has been debated among scholars based on their interpretations of some hadiths since the Qur'an does not specify any worldly punishment for it. For example, there was a case at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) where a man came to him in three consecutive days and told him that he wanted to apostate. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never took any action against him, and when the man finally left Madina, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never sent anyone to arrest him, let alone kill him.

This is why some scholars distinguished between individual apostasy and apostasy which is accompanied by high treason. So, it cannot be confused with the freedom of conscience for every individual, which has been guaranteed in the Qur'an through hundreds of verses.

For example, one version of a hadith narrated by `A'isha (RA) concerning apostasy relates to one who left his religion and fought against Muslims.

May Allah know best

 

[Gary]

There is no historical record, which indicates that Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy.

Utter rubbish and more Muslim deception!

Here are the real facts.

Fact number (1)

'Ikrimah said: 'Ali burned some people who retreated from Islam. When Ibn 'Abbas was informed of it, he said: If it had been I, I would not have them burned, for the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Do not inflict Allah's punishment on anyone, but would have had killed them on account of the statement of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him). The Apostle said: Kill those who change their religion.

Source: Sunan Abu Dawud, Book XXXIII, Kitab al-Hudud

Fact number (2)

Narrated 'Ikrima: 'Ali burnt some people and this news reached ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'"

Source: Bukhari - Volume 4, Book 52, Chapter 149, Number 260. p. 160-161.

Fact number (3)

CHAPTER. The legal regulation concerning the male and the female who reverts from Islam (apostates). Ibn 'Umar, Az-Zuhri and Ibrahim said, "A female apostate (who reverts from Islam), should be killed. And the obliging of the reverters from Islam (apostates) to repent. Allah said:  'How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and (after) they bore witness that the Apostle (Muhammad) was true, and that Clear Signs had come unto them? And Allah does not guide the wrong-doing people. As for such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, the Angels, and of all mankind. They will abide there-in (Hell). Neither will their torment be lightened nor it will be postponed (for a while). Except for those that repent after that and make amends. Verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Surely those who disbelieved after their belief, and go on adding to their defiance of faith, never will their repentance be accepted, and they are those who have gone astray.' (Sura 3:86-90)

Source: Bukhari  Volume 9, Book 84, Chapter 2, p. 42-43.

Fact number (4)

Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Source: Bukhari  Volume 9, Book 84, Chapter 2, Number 57, page 45

Fact number (5)

Narrated Abu Burda: Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

Source: Bukhari  Volume 9, Book 84, Chapter 2, Number 58, p. 45-46.

Fact number (6)

Narrated Abu Musa: A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle.

Source: Bukhari  Volume 9, Book 89, Chapter 12, Number 271, p. 201.

Facts number (7-10)

KITAB AL-QASAMA
Chapter DCLXXIII. WHEN IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO TAKE THE LIFE OF A MUSLIM

(4152) 'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact) that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, 2131 a life for life, and the deserter 2132 of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community.

(4153) 'This hadith has been narrated on the authority of A'mash.

(4154) 'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up and said: By Him besides Whom there is no god but He, the blood of a Muslim who bears the testimony that there is no god but Allah, and I am His Messenger, may be lawfully shed only in case of three persons: the one who abandons Islam, and deserts the community [Ahmad, one of the narrators, is doubtful whether the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) used the word l'l-jama'ah or al-jama'ah], and the married adulterer, and life for life.

(4155) This hadith has been reported on the authority of A'mash with the same chain of narrators but with a slight variation of words, i.e. he did not say: By Him besides Whom there is no god.

Source: Muslim  Vol. III, Book Kitab al-Qasama, Chapter DCLXXIII, Number 4152-4155, 898-900.

Fact number (11)

(4490) ... When Mu'adh reached the camp of Aba Musa, the latter (received him and) said: Please get yourself down; and he spread for him a mattress, while there was a man bound hand and foot as a prisoner. Mu'adh said: Who is this? Abu Musa said: He was a Jew. He embraced Islam. Then he reverted to his false religion and became a Jew. Mu'adh said: I won't sit until be is killed according to the decree of Allah and His Apostle (may peace be upon him) (in this case). Abu Musa said: Be seated. It will be done. He said: I won't sit unless he is killed in accordance with the decree of Allah and His Apostle (may peace be upon him). He repeated these words thrice. Then Abu Mina ordered him (to be killed) and he was killed. 2295 Then the two talked of standing in prayer at night. One of them, i.e. Mu'adh, said: I sleep (for a part of the night) and stand in prayer (for a part) and I hope that I shall get the same reward for sleeping as I shall get for standing (in prayer). 2296

Source: Muslim  Vol. III. Book Kitab Al-Imara, Chapter DCCLVI, Number 4490, p. 1015.

Fact number (12)

A book published in the United States, Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law, is a translation of 'Umdat al-salik by Ibn Naqib (died 1368 A.D.). This Shari’ah legal manual explicitly presents the punishment for Muslim who leaves Islam. It states that, if a sane person leaves Islam voluntarily, the person is to be killed by the proper Islamic authority.

Source: Ahmad ibn Naqib, Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law.

Fact number (13)

In the Al-Muwatta of Imam Ibn Anas Malik, the punishment for leaving Islam is execution by beheading after imprisonment and waiting three days in case the offender decides to repent and return to Islam.

Source: Malik, ibn Anas (Imam), Al-Muwatta: The First Formulation of Islamic Law, Translated by Aisha A. Bewley, Madinah Press Granada, Spain, 1989, p. 303-304.

Facts number (14-24)

XXXIII. KITAB AL-HUDUD
[BOOK OF PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENTS]

Chapter 1605
PUNISHMENT OF AN APOSTATE

(4337) 'Ikrimah said: 'Ali burned some people who retreated 3794 from Islam. When Ibn 'Abbas was informed of it, he said: If it had been I, I would not have them burned, for the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Do not inflict Allah's punishment on anyone, but would have had killed them on account of the statement of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him). The Apostle said: Kill those who change their religion. When 'Ali was informed about it he said: How truly Ibn 'Abbas said!

(4338) 'Abd Allah (b. Mas'ud) reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: The blood of a Muslim man who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that I am the Apostle of Allah should not be lawfully shed but only for one of three reasons: married fornicator, 3795 soul for soul, 3796 and one who deserts his religion separating himself from the community. 3797

(4339) 'A'ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: The blood of a Muslim man who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle should not lawfully be shed except only for one of three reasons: a man who committed fornication after marriage, in which case he should be stoned; one who goes forth to fight with Allah and His Apostle, 3798 in which case he should be killed or crucified or exiled from the land ; or one who commits murder for which he is killed.

(4340) Abu Burdah said on the authority of Abu Musa: I went to the Prophet (may peace be upon him) while two men who were Ash'aris were with me. One of them was on my right and the other on my left side. Both of them asked him for employment. The Prophet (may peace be upon him) was silent. He asked: What do you say, Abu Musa, or 'Abd Allah b. Qais (Abu Musa's, name)? I replied: By Him Who has sent you with truth, they did not inform me of what they had in their hearts, and I did not know that they would ask for an employment. He said: I have the scene before my eyes that he had his toothstick below his lip which receded. He (the Prophet) said: We will never or will not put in charge of our work anyone who asks for it. But go, ye, Abu Musa, or 'Abd Allah b. Qais. He then sent him as a Governor of the Yemen. After him he sent Mu'adh b. Jabal. When Mu'adh came to him, he said: Come down, and he put a cushion for him. He saw that a man was chained with him. He asked: What is this? He replied: He was a Jew and he accepted Islam. He then converted to his religion, an evil religion. He said: I will not sit until he is killed according to the decision of Allah and His Apostle (may peace be upon him). He said: Yes, be seated. He said: I will not sit until he is killed according to the decision of Allah and His Apostle (may peace be upon him). He said it three times. He then commanded for it and he was killed. Both of them then discussed the question of prayer and vigilance at night. One of them, probably Mu'adh, said: So far as I am concerned, I sleep and I keep vigilance; I keep vigilance and I sleep; I hope for the same reward for my sleep as for, my vigilance.

(4341) Abu Musa said: Mu'adh came to me when I was in the Yemen. A man who was Jew embraced Islam and then retreated from Islam. When Mu'adh came, he said: I will not come down from my mount until he is killed. He was then killed. One of them said: He was asked to repent before that.

(4342) Abu Burdah said: A man who turned back from Islam was brought to Abu Musa. He invited him to repent for twenty days or about so. Mu'adh then came and invited him (to embrace Islam) but he refused. So he was beheaded.

(4343) The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Abu Musa through a different chain of narrators. But there is no mention of demand of repentance.

(4344) The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by al-Qasim through a different chain of narrators. This version has: He did not come down until he was killed, and he did not ask him for repentance.

(4345) Ibn 'Abbas said: 'Abd Allah b. Abi Sarh used to write (the revelation) for the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him). Satan made him slip, and he joined the infidels. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) commanded to kill him on the day of Conquest (of Mecca). 'Uthman b. 'Affan sought protection for him. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) gave him protection.

(4346) Sa'd said: On the day of the Conquest of Mecca 'Abd Allah b. Said b. Abi Sarh hid himself with 'Uthman b. 'Affan. He brought him and made him stand before the Prophet (may peace be upon him), and said: Accept the allegiance of 'Abd Allah, Apostle of Allah! He raised his head and looked at him three times, refusing him each time, but accepted his allegiance after the third time. Then turning to his Companions he said: Was not there a wise man among you who would stand to him when he saw me that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance and killed him? They said: We did not know what you had in your heart, Apostle of Allah! Why did you not give us a signal with your eye? He said: It is not advisable for a Prophet to have tricks that deceive with the eyes.

(4347) Jarir reported the Prophet (may peace be upon him) as saying: When a slave runs away and reverts to polytheism, he may lawfully be killed.

Source: Quotation from: Dawud, Imam Abu, Sunan Abu Dawud: English Translations with Explanatory Notes by Prof. Ahmad Hasan, Sh. Muhamad Ashraf Publications, Lahore, Pakistan, First Edition 1984 (Reprinted 1996), Vol. III, Book XXXIII, Chapter 1605, p. 1212-1214

etc etc

I could go on and on.

What I want to know is why you LIED about the facts which you are obviously very aware of.

Why did you lie?

:o :o :o

 

[bibleberean]

Good post Gary!

Wow!

:smt071

 

[laila]

Thanks for your opinion Gary

we have two main resource in Islam which are Al Quraan and Al sunnah
Al Quraan is perfect and every thing in it is right and uncorrupted but Al sunnah can be corrupted by people .
the stories you mentioned was people mistake , you shouldn't judge Islam as a religion by the people misunderstanding ,Even in Christianity I read that many people do mistake and bad things in the name of their religion while the original tenets didn't call to do that things .

every thing after the age of the prophet Mohammed (PUH) is not Islamic teachings facts .I'm here to see who represent the Christianity as a peaceful religion and how ?

Thanks again

 

[Gary]

we have two main resource in Islam which are Al Quraan and Al sunnah
Al Quraan is perfect and every thing in it is right and uncorrupted but Al sunnah can be corrupted by people

So, in effect, you are saying that YOU did not lie..... but

• (1) Ikrimah
  (2) Ali
  (3) Abu Dawud
  (4) Bukhari (multiple times)
  (5) Ibn 'Umar
  (6) Az-Zuhri
  (7) Ibrahim
  (8) Abu Burda
  (9) Abu Musa
  (10) Mu'adh bin Jabal
  (11) 'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud)
  (12) A'mash
  (13) Muslim
  (14) Ahmad ibn Naqib
  (15) Imam Ibn Anas Malik
  (16) 'Ikrimah
  (17) Ibn 'Abbas
  (18) 'A'ishah (Muhammad's 9 year-old wife!)
  (19) Abu Dawud (multiple times)

...... ALL lied? There are multiple chains of narration, all reporting the same thing... KILL/MURDER the apostates...

....BUT you think they all LIED???

What proof do you have that they all lied?

Why not reject ALL Hadith?

:o :o

 

[Muhsen]

Gary, here some surprised thing for you,

Quran did not say to kill the apostate but the bible did:
read


Instant Death to Apostates (those who desert their religion) in the Bible in both the Old Testament and the New Testament:


It is often believed that the Bible gives absolute religious freedom to everyone. Most of the Christians in the United States and the the West think that the freedom of choice and speech that they have comes originally from the Bible. Let's just see how accurate this myth really is.

Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

This verse was sent to me by Yusif 65; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him: 2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Also let us look at Romans 1:20-32 (from the New Testament) "20. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30. slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31. they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."



Also psychics must be put to death. Let us look at Leviticus 20:27 "And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them."

The above verses clearly show that the Bible doesn't tolerate apostates. Jesus did honor the Old Testament's laws and ordered his followers to follow the Old Testament until the day of Judgment:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

Christians always say as an excuse that an Old Testament law does not apply to them. According to Matthew 5:17-18, we clearly see that Jesus honored the Old Testament, and forced Christians to follow the unmodified laws of it that have not been replaced by newer ones in the New Testament. The Old Testament as we clearly see above orders the immediate killing of apostates/renegades. The New Testament as we also clearly see above, orders the death of the apostates/renegades. And according to Matthew 5:17-18 above, apostates/renegades in Christianity must be put to death simultaneously.

By the way, please visit: Christians are obligated to follow the Old Testament.


Also, during the middle centuries when the Church used to rule over everything, the minority Christians and the Christian Scientists were slaughtered and put to death by the majority ones just because the Priests and Ministers of the High Church decided to call as "heresies" or "apostates". The Bible does give clear authority to the Priests and Ministers to call someone an apostate:

"The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment. (1 Corinthians 2:15)"



Conclusion:

The Bible in both the Old Testament and the New Testament doesn't tolerate apostates, and it orders for them to be killed. The Bible does order men and women (spiritual leaders and religious people) to be judgmental, and to kill those who don't agree with them by stoning them to death.

The man-made myth about Bible being a "book of love" is clearly contradicted for being the biggest judgmental and punishing book.

read more
http://www.answering-christianity.com/death.htm

 

[Gary]

What you (and Osama) fail to understand is that Jesus FULFILLED the law....

Over and over the New Testament tells us that the law could not make anyone righteous. Jesus had to do what the law could not. "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith" (Galatians 3:24).

The Law only pointed to righteousness, but Jesus Christ gives us righteousness, His own righteousness.

The judicial law and the ceremonial law were FULFILLED and set aside. They ended at the cross. But the moral law fulfilled by Jesus Christ is still being fulfilled through His disciples.

Because Jesus fulfilled the law, so can those who belong to Him. God sent "His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" (Romans 8:3-4).

When we walk in the Spirit we fulfill the righteousness of the law, because Christ in us fulfills it with His own righteousness which He has given to us.

Muhsen, I trust and believe Jesus Christ. He FULFILLED the law. Muhammad could never do that. Muhammad was deceitful and a murderer. I follow Jesus. You can follow Jesus as well.

Read about Jesus.... - Matthew - CLICK HERE -

 

[Muhsen]

What you fail to understand is that Christians have committed a great blasphemy by trying to attribute a son to God.

 

[Gary]

Stay on topic.....

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/packer/index.html

 

[laila]

Hi all

In reply to Gary

...... ALL lied? There are multiple chains of narration, all reporting the same thing... KILL/MURDER the apostates...

I'm not saying that they are lier but sometimes people took their name to fabricate Hadieths .... also your facts didn't mention to the same story to be sure that it is really happened .

Sunnah means the way of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). It includes everything he said, did, and approved of. We know the Sunnah from the statements called Hadiths that have been handed down from the Companions of the Prophet.

Opposing Mohameed and changing his Sunnah is misguidance and innovation. It is threatened by Allâh with utter bereftness and punishment.

Gary Wrote

Why not reject ALL Hadith?

My answer :
Islamic Law is taken from the Qur’an and Sunnah. The Sunnah in this sense both explains the Qur’an, and also gives additional rules and guidance. The Qur’an in many places tells us to obey the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), and thus it is wrongâ€â€as some deviant sects claimâ€â€that the Qur’an is sufficient and that we do not need the Sunnah.

According to Islamic jurists, the Sunnah is second to fard. Fard means something is obligatory and it must be done; to neglect it without any excuse is a sin. The Sunnah is divided into confirmed (Sunnah mu’akkadah) and optional (Sunnah ghairmu’akkadah). The confirmed Sunnah also should not be neglected, though it is not as important as the fard. The optional Sunnah is recommended, but if someone neglects it, there is no sin or blame on that person.

For example :Sunnah Prayers refer to the additional ritual Prayers (Salah) that are recommended before or after the obligatory (fard) Prayers. It is not necessary to perform these additional Prayers, but it is highly recommended to do so. This is because we will be rewarded for imitating the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), and because, on Judgment Day, those Sunnah Prayers will compensate for any obligatory Prayers that were missed or not accepted. For each of the obligatory Prayers, there is a certain number of rak‘ahs of Sunnah Prayer to be performed before and or after the obligatory ones.

Sunnah can also refer to those things that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) did in order to bring himself closer to Allah, in contrast to those things that he did simply out of habit or custom. So, for example, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) slept on a simple mat out of habit or custom. We are not required to follow him in this. But he also went to sleep on his right side and advised us to do the same. Thus sleeping on the right side is a Sunnah, something he did to please Allah.

The way of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is the way that should be followed by Muslims.

Allâh says, "Let those who oppose his command beware of a trial that might strike them or a painful punishment that might befall them." (24:63)

and "Whoever splits from the Messenger of Allâh after the guidance is clear to him and follows other than the path of the believers, We shall entrust him to what he has turned to." (4:114)

Allâh says, "O you who believe, obey Allâh and His Messenger ... "(8:20)

"Say: obey Allâh and obey the Messenger ... " (24:54)

"Obey Allâh and the Messenger and perhaps you will be shown mercy." (3:132)

"If you obey him, you will be guided ... " (24:54)

Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allâh ... " (4:79)

"That what the Messenger brings you and leave what he forbids you ... " (59:7)

"Whoever obeys Allâh and the Messenger is with those whom Allâh has blessed." (4:68)

"We did not send any Messenger but for him to be obeyed by the permission of Allâh." (4:63)



He made obeying His Messenger tantamount to obeying Himself, and He placed obedience to Himself alongside obedience to His Messenger. Allâh promises that doing this will result in an abundant reward and threatens a severe punishment for opposing it. He made it obligatory to obey the things that the Prophet commanded and to avoid those he prohibited.

Hadith is integral to the Qur’an, since they are inseparably linked to each other. It is impossible to understand the Qur’an without reference to Hadith. The Qur’an is the message, and the Hadith is the explanation of the message by the Messenger himself. We mention the following points to clarify the issue:



1-The Qur’an makes it abundantly clear that the function of the Messenger is not merely that of a deliveryman who simply delivers the revelation from Allah to us. Rather, he has been entrusted with the most important task of explaining and illustrating the same. This is a point mentioned in a number of verses in the Qur’an (See the Qur’an: 16: 44; 64). Therefore, Hadith explains, clarifies, and removes ambiguities about the Qur’an. Hence, once we reject the Hadith, we may never be able to figure out the whole meaning of the Qur’an.



2-Much of Islam will remain mere abstract concepts without Hadith. We would never know how to pray, fast, pay Zakah, or make pilgrimage without the illustration found in Hadith, for these acts of worship remain as abstract imperatives in the Qur’an.



3-The Qur’an tells us the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) has taught not only the Book but also the wisdom (See Qur’an: 96:2; 33:34; 4:113, etc.). As Imam Shafi`i stated, the wisdom mentioned here is the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); so if we were to reject the Hadith, we would be rejecting the Qur’an itself.

4-The Qur’an tells us to obey the Messenger and abide by his decision (See the Qur’an: 4:65; 5:49, etc.). Where we do we find such decisions except in the Hadith?



5-Last but not least, the Qur’an orders the faithful to emulate the role model of the Messenger and reckons it as the only way to gain the pleasure of Allah. It is therefore imperative that we look up to his morals and behavior and emulate them in our lives. We can never do so without studying the Hadith. It is most illuminating in this respect to learn that when `A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) was asked to describe the character of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), her definitive answer was, “His character was the Qur’an.†In other words, he personified the best ideals and values of the Qur’an. How could we then neglect the Hadith, which alone can lead us to the precise ways in which the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) exemplified the Qur’anic ideals?

Hadith at all times must be evaluated by the well established rules of validation as established by the great scholars. Such firm criteria include the following: If a certain hadith is contrary to the well established principles of the Qur’an or sound reason, it must be rejected.

 

[laila]

For your information ,Muslims established science and criteria for Hadiths to assure about their accuracy .They also classified hadiths in accordance to their status as follow .

-According to the links in the isnad, i.e. whether the chain of reporters is interrupted or uninterrupted, e.g. musnad (supported), muttasil (continuous), munqati' (broken), mu'allaq (hanging), mu'dal (perplexing) and mursal (hurried).

-According to the number of reporters involved in each stage of the isnad, e.g. mutawatir (consecutive) and ahad (isolated), the latter being divided into gharib (scarce, strange), 'aziz (rare, strong), and mashhur (famous).

-According to the manner in which the hadith has been reported, such as using the (Arabic) words 'an ("on the authority of"), haddathana ("he narrated to us"), akhbarana (- "he informed us") or sami'tu ("I heard"). In this category falls the discussion about mudallas (concealed) and musalsal (uniformly-linked) ahadith.

-According to the nature of the matn and isnad, e.g. an addition by a reliable reporter, known as ziyadatu thiqah, or opposition by a lesser authority to a more reliable one, known as shadhdh (irregular). In some cases, a text containing a vulgar expression, unreasonable remark or obviously-erroneous statement is rejected by the traditionists outright without consideration of the isnad: such a hadith is known as munkar (denounced). If an expression or statement is proved to be an addition by a reporter to the text, it is declared as mudraj (interpolated).

-According to a hidden defect found in the isnad or text of a hadith. Although this could be included in some of the previous categories, a hadith mu'allal (defective hadith) is worthy to be explained separately. The defect can be caused in many ways; e.g. two types of hadith mu'allal are known as maqlub (overturned) and mudtarib (shaky).

-According to the reliability and memory of the reporters; the final judgment on a hadith depends crucially on this factor: verdicts such as sahih (sound), hasan (good), da'if (weak) and maudu' (fabricated, forged) rest mainly upon the nature of the reporters in the isnad.


Maybe this could help you to understand how we Muslims could recognize the reality of our religion resources.you can see that the status of Quraan is different from the status of the Hadith ..we believe in Al Quraan as a perfect and absolutely saved from any corruption ,but we accept that Hadith could be that .

 

[bibleberean]

laila wrote:

"Hadith is integral to the Qur’an, since they are inseparably linked to each other. It is impossible to understand the Qur’an without reference to Hadith. The Qur’an is the message, and the Hadith is the explanation of the message by the Messenger himself."

Then laila writes:

"Maybe this could help you to understand how we Muslims could recognize the reality of our religion resources.you can see that the status of Quraan is different from the status of the Hadith ..we believe in Al Quraan as a perfect and absolutely saved from any corruption ,but we accept that Hadith could be that ."

bb responds:

If the Hadith and Q'uran are inseparably linked but you are not sure that the Hadith hasn't been corrupted then you really don't know what to believe.

The Koran and the Hadith contain the doctrines of devils.

On the other hand the bible is the very words of God...


1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Muhammad is a false prophet and Islam a religion inspired by devils.

 

[Gary]

If some of the Hadith are corrupt, why did Bukhari not reject them?

It is alleged that Bukhari collected hundreds of thousands of Hadith and then selected the 7,000 or so that were Sahih (authentic).

IF what you claim is correct, then why have Muslims not produced an updated list of which Hadith are now "authentic"?

More recently, the Hadith have been translated into English and that has enabled non-Muslims to show how silly many of the Hadith are. Now Muslims claim that some of the Hadith are corrupted!

:-?

 

[laila]

Hi All

bibleberean wrote

The Koran and the Hadith contain the doctrines of devils.

On the other hand the bible is the very words of God...

I think that of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus, and only of the 27 books are known to be attributed as the Gospel of Jesus. The remaining 23 were supposedly written by Paul. Muslims do believe that Jesus was given God’s "Good News." However, they do not recognized the present four Gospels as the utterances of Jesus.

Literally, hundreds of gospels and religious writings were hidden from the people. Some of those writings were written by Jesus’ disciples, and many of them were eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ actions. The Nicea Council decided to destroy all gospels written in Hebrew, which resulted in the burning of nearly three hundred accounts. If these writings were not more authentic than the four present gospels, they were of equal authenticity. Some of them are still available such as the Gospel of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas which agree with the Quran.

The Gospel of Barnabas, until now, is the only eyewitness account of the life and mission of Jesus. Even today, the whole of the Protestant word, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and other sects and denominations condemn the Roman Catholic version of the Bible because it contains seven "extra" books. The Protestant have bravely expunged seven whole books from their word of God. A few of the outcasts are the Books of Judith, Tobnias, Baruch and Esther.


Also the word "gospel" is recurrently used in the Bible. However, in the New Testament Greek edition the word Evangeline is used in place of the word gospel, which is translated to mean good news.

Christians, boast about the Gospels according to Matthew, according to Mark, according to Luke and according to John. However, if we think about it, there is not a single Gospel according to Jesus himself. According to the preface of the KJV (King James Version) new open Bible study edition, the word "Gospel" was added to the original titles, "According to John, according to Matthew, according to Luke and according to Mark."

I think this made me confused .I'm asking about the truth ,if you have the answer please answer me.

Thanks to all

 

[Gary]

The Gospel of Barnabas, until now, is the only eyewitness account of the life and mission of Jesus.

Utter nonsense.

Read and learn: http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/gi ... rnabas.htm

I think that of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus, and only of the 27 books are known to be attributed as the Gospel of Jesus. The remaining 23 were supposedly written by Paul.

Wrong.

Read and learn:
Dates and authors of the New Testament books
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/bible/ntdates.htm

... and then read this to understand more about the Bible:

The Integrity of the Bible
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/gi ... egrity.htm



Now stay on topic!

:-?

 

[Gary]

Literally, hundreds of gospels and religious writings were hidden from the people. Some of those writings were written by Jesus’ disciples, and many of them were eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ actions. The Nicea Council decided to destroy all gospels written in Hebrew, which resulted in the burning of nearly three hundred accounts. If these writings were not more authentic than the four present gospels, they were of equal authenticity. Some of them are still available such as the Gospel of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas which agree with the Quran.

Utter nonsense. You have not referenced a single authority to prove your points.

The charge is sometimes made that the church picked and chose between a large number of gospels to arrive at the four that exist in the New Testament. However the evidence is that the church consistently used these four and never any others. The natural conclusion is that these arose inside the orthodox church (founded by the apostles, and hence containing their writings), while unorthodox sects wrote their gospels to bolster their beliefs.

By the middle of the second century, the usage of the four gospels was unanimous in the church. This is evidenced in the writings of Tatian, Irenaeus, and possibly Justin Martyr [Reference: A.Patzia, "The Making of the New Testament", p.64].

There is no evidence of the church having widespread use of any other gospel.

-Source-

 

[bibleberean]

laila writes:

Christians, boast about the Gospels according to Matthew, according to Mark, according to Luke and according to John. However, if we think about it, there is not a single Gospel according to Jesus himself. According to the preface of the KJV (King James Version) new open Bible study edition, the word "Gospel" was added to the original titles, "According to John, according to Matthew, according to Luke and according to Mark."

BB responds:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The bible was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul states:

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

There is a reason you cannot understand these things...

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You have one choice for salvation.

You must choose the only way to salvation or perish...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You had best find the truth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

You will not come to God by Muhammad, Buddha, Vishnu or the Catholic version of Mary but by Christ and Him alone.

Allah is a false god... I don't want to come unto him...