The Pilgrim's Progress

[evenifigoalone]

I read the book earlier this year. Or maybe it was last year...

I like the part where Christian is going through the valley of the shadow of death. Once during that part it was mentioned that there was a demon whispering blasphemies into his thoughts, and Christian thought it was him that that was coming from and felt ashamed that he should be thinking those things. I think that actually happened to me once, so when I read that part I was like, "Hey..."





I also have another book by Bunyan titled "The Path to Hell" or something like that, and it was about this guy that went to hell and what lead him there. I never got very far into that one; kinda depressing.

 

[Davies]

I also have another book by Bunyan titled "The Path to Hell" or something like that, and it was about this guy that went to hell and what lead him there. I never got very far into that one; kinda depressing.

Hi questdriven,

I might have to check out "The Path to Hell". I do believe it's difficult to think about hell for very long. I imagine most people don't think about it more than a minute with long periods of time in between. If we can remain faithful to the Scriptures or even if it's our imaginations based on Scripture, I think we could stand to benefit from it. How? Whatever our imaginations can conjure up about Hell, it's infinitely worse than what we think. Hell is what we deserve, and if we can believe that, then what Jesus has done for us and offers us through His promises, we will count them precious. Think about this: if God took you to the edge of the entrance to Hell and you could see and hear the suffering souls that wailed their misery, don't you think the strength would leave your legs and you would give God your full attention to fear to do what's wrong and worship Him for His forgiveness and His great gift of righteousness that He bestows freely? I think seeing Hell would benefit us very much. We would not be the same person afterwards.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Christian. "...But pray tell me, did you meet nobody in the Valley of Humility?"

Faithful. "Yes, I met with one Discontent, who would willingly have persuaded me to go back again with him. His reason was for that the valley was altogether without honour; he told me, moreover, that there to go was the way to disobey all my friends, as pride, arrogancy, self-conceit, worldly glory, with others, who he knew, as he said, would be very much offended, if I made such a fool of myself as to wade through this valley."

Christian. "Well, and how did you answer him?"

Faithful. "I told him that although all these that he named might claim kindred of me, and that rightly (for indeed they were my relations, according to the flesh), yet since I became a pilgrim, they have disowned me, as I also have rejected them; and therefore they were to me now no more than if they had never been of my lineage; I told him, moreover, that as to this valley, he had quite misrepresented the thing, for before honour is humility and a haughty spirit before a fall. [Proverbs 18:12, 16:18] Therefore, said I, I had rather go through this valley to the honour that was so accounted by the wisest than choose that which he esteemed more worth our affections." - John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

It's better to undergo the sting and pain of the deflation of one's pride and be seen for the small thing we are in regards to what we do and how little we know. I believe our honor is found in the trusting of Jesus, and of the giving all the credit for our believing to God.

- Davies

 

[Speculative]

You guys have inspired me to re-read the book. It's been many years--maybe like ten--since I read it. It's a great Christian classic.

 

[Davies]

Hi Speculative,

The more Scripture you know, the more you see it in Bunyan's writing, the more you are encouraged.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Talkative. "I perceive then that our talk must be about the power of things. Well, 'tis a very good question, and I shall be willing to answer you. And take my answer in brief thus: first, where the grace of God is in the heart, it causeth there a great outcry against sin. Secondly --"

Faithful. "Nay, hold, let us consider of one at once. I think you should rather say it shows itself by inclining the soul to abhor its sin."

Talkative. "Why, what difference is there between crying out against, and abhorring of sin?"

Faithful. "Oh! a great deal. A man may cry out against sin of policy, but he cannot abhor it, but by virtue of a godly antipathy against it. I have heard many cry out against sin in the pulpit, who yet can abide it well enough in the heart, and house, and conversation. Joseph's mistress cried out with a loud voice, as if she had been very holy, but she would willingly, notwithstanding that, have committed uncleanness with him. Some cry out against sin, even as the mother cries out against her child in her lap, when she calleth it slut and naughty girl, and then falls to hugging and kissing it. - John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

That's we do often isn't it. I know I'm guilty of it. How many people speak with a filthy mouth. Whenever I hear a 'Christian' use the F-bomb or anything you can think of that is foul, my ears hurt, and think, 'Lord, don't keep Your grace from us.' We go about kissing and loving on our sin, dulling the conscience because we say the man who follows his conscience is a 'religious' fellow. You would have thought religion was a dirty word. People talk about a relationship with Jesus. I wonder just what that relationship is. Works won't make a dead faith live, but a live faith will produce the iron in a work that will stand the fire of God's revealing. God is good!

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Is God with you? How do you know? Is it because you can call sin out, or, because you abhor sin? Is it because you know of the great mysteries of God, or, is it because you have understanding and do the things God has commanded?

Faithful. "A work of grace in the soul discovereth itself, either to him that hath it or to standers by.

"To him that hath it, thus; it gives him conviction of sin, especially of the defilement of his nature and the sin of unbelief (for the sake of which he is sure to be damned, if he findeth no mercy at God's hand by faith in Jesus Christ). This sight and sense of things worketh in him sorrow and shame for sin; he findeth, moreover, revealed in him the Saviour of the World, and the absolute necessity of closing with him for life, at the which he findeth hungerings and thirstings after him, to which hungerings, &c. the promise is made. Now according to the strength or weakness of his faith in his Saviour, so is his joy and peace, so is his love to holiness, so are his desires to know him more, and also to serve him in this world. But though I say it discovereth itself thus unto him, yet it is but seldom that he is able to conclude that this is a work of grace, because his corruptions now and his abused reason makes his mind to misjudge in this matter; therefore in him that hath this work there is required a very sound judgement, before he can with steadiness conclude that this is a work of grace." John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

When a person's sin is exposed, how painful is it! It's embarrassing to be seen shameful in the sight of others, let alone God who knows everything perfectly. I think we often mistake God to be like people though, who would be content to smile upon our disgrace. It still remains, though, that we have to be able to come to terms with who we are, being sensitive to conscience, and look to the blood of the cross to satisfy or heal the conscience. The blood of Jesus certainly satisfies the Father in regard to our sins. Knowing God is gentle, knowing God sees perfectly and yet offers forgiveness because of what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, we should be enabled to look at our sin without threat, and see the Holy God who saves.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Traveling through the town of Vanity (the world) and the fair that lies within, we see the misunderstood Christian:

"Now these pilgrims, as I said, must needs go through this fair. Well, so they did, but behold, even as they entered into the fair, all the people in the fair were moved and the town itself as it were in a hubbub about them, and that for several reasons; for,

First, the pilgrims were clothed with such kind of raiment as was diverse from the raiment of any that traded in that fair. The people therefore of the fair mad a great gazing upon them. Some said they were fools, some they were bedlams, and some they are outlandish men.

Secondly, and as they wondered at their apparel, so they did likewise at their speech, for few could understand what they said. They naturally spoke the language of Canaan, but they that kept the fair were the men of this world. So that from on end of the fair to the other, they seemed barbarians each to the other.

Thirdly, but that which did not a little amuse the merchantdisers was that these pilgrims set very light by all their wares; they cared not so much as to look upon them, and if they called upon them to buy, they would put their fingers in their ears and cry, "Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity," [Psalms 119:37] and look upwards, signifying that their trade and traffic was in heaven." John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

To put on the Lord Jesus, and walk through this life with honesty and integrity in the light of Scripture, takes a lot of courage because it goes against our nature and against the nature we find in the world. Who prays and forgives their enemies? Who discounts their own righteousness and professes they are justified by Jesus' righteousness? The natural man proclaims his own goodness.

We are barbarians to those who don't believe because they don't discern the spiritual matters of the Law, or of the requirement of Jesus' death, the Gospel of God.

Christians are misunderstood when they don't partake in the pleasures of this word as non-believers do. Haven't you heard Christians don't have fun, because all they are concerned with are following rules, a kill joy. They don't understand the love of God a Christian has towards his Savior, because they don't understand what the Savior offers.

The misunderstood Christian.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

I was posting recently in a thread that was discussing the Christian's liberty, started by farouk. You can visit it, http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48349&page=2. Reading through this book, I came across the one name By-ends.

Christian. "If you will go with us, you must go against wind and tide, the which, I perceive, is against your opinion. You must also own religion in his rags, as well as when in his silver slippers, and stand by him, too, when bound in irons, as well as when he walketh the streets with applause.

By-ends. "You must no impose, nor lord it over my faith; leave me to my liberty, and let me go with you."

Christian. "Not a step further, unless you will do in what I propound, as we."

Then said By-ends, "I shall never desert my old principles, since they are harmless and profitable. If I may not go with you, I must do as I did before you overtook me, even go by myself, until some overtake me that will be glad of my company." - John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress

By-ends religion is to go the way of least resistance, go with the flow. When religion is applauded, By-ends has no problems taking the applause so as to be seen by all men. But when it's not popular to speak faithfully of Jesus, or profitable, then we see something different. When Christian puts it to By-ends that he has to forsake the world, By-ends won't abandon his way in the name of Christian liberty. The cloak of liberty in Christ is taken off, and the cloak of self-will is put on, and wa la, you have yourself a confused Christian at best, or a deceived one at worse. By-ends is not a Christian in the allegory, but he is a warning to us all that we need to esteem the sacrifice of Jesus, and reckon the old man dead.

- Davies

 

[farouk]

I was posting recently in a thread that was discussing the Christian's liberty, started by farouk. You can visit it, http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=48349&page=2. Reading through this book, I came across the one name By-ends.

Christian. "If you will go with us, you must go against wind and tide, the which, I perceive, is against your opinion. You must also own religion in his rags, as well as when in his silver slippers, and stand by him, too, when bound in irons, as well as when he walketh the streets with applause.

By-ends. "You must no impose, nor lord it over my faith; leave me to my liberty, and let me go with you."

Christian. "Not a step further, unless you will do in what I propound, as we."

Then said By-ends, "I shall never desert my old principles, since they are harmless and profitable. If I may not go with you, I must do as I did before you overtook me, even go by myself, until some overtake me that will be glad of my company." - John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress

By-ends religion is to go the way of least resistance, go with the flow. When religion is applauded, By-ends has no problems taking the applause so as to be seen by all men. But when it's not popular to speak faithfully of Jesus, or profitable, then we see something different. When Christian puts it to By-ends that he has to forsake the world, By-ends won't abandon his way in the name of Christian liberty. The cloak of liberty in Christ is taken off, and the cloak of self-will is put on, and wa la, you have yourself a confused Christian at best, or a deceived one at worse. By-ends is not a Christian in the allegory, but he is a warning to us all that we need to esteem the sacrifice of Jesus, and reckon the old man dead.

- Davies

Davies:

A good and searching passage from good old John Bunyan.

Romans 14 is certainly a many faceted read.

Blessings.

 

[Eugene]

I read the book earlier this year. Or maybe it was last year...

I like the part where Christian is going through the valley of the shadow of death. Once during that part it was mentioned that there was a demon whispering blasphemies into his thoughts, and Christian thought it was him that that was coming from and felt ashamed that he should be thinking those things. I think that actually happened to me once, so when I read that part I was like, "Hey..."

You're right about the following excerpt, but that book had so many experiences related to our walk in Christ; what a blessing his writing was to me.

"One thing I would not let slip; I took notice that now poor CHRISTIAN was so confounded, that he did not know his own voice. And thus I perceived it: just when he was come over against the mouth of the burning pit, one of the wicked ones got behind him, and stept up softly to him; and whisperingly suggested many grievous blasphemies to him--which he verily thought had proceeded from his own mind. This put CHRISTIAN more to it than anything that he met with before, even to think that he should now blaspheme him that he loved so much before! Yet could he have helped it, he would not have done it; but he had not the discretion neither to stop his ears, nor to know from whence those blasphemies came."

 

[farouk]

You're right about the following excerpt, but that book had so many experiences related to our walk in Christ; what a blessing his writing was to me.

"One thing I would not let slip; I took notice that now poor CHRISTIAN was so confounded, that he did not know his own voice. And thus I perceived it: just when he was come over against the mouth of the burning pit, one of the wicked ones got behind him, and stept up softly to him; and whisperingly suggested many grievous blasphemies to him--which he verily thought had proceeded from his own mind. This put CHRISTIAN more to it than anything that he met with before, even to think that he should now blaspheme him that he loved so much before! Yet could he have helped it, he would not have done it; but he had not the discretion neither to stop his ears, nor to know from whence those blasphemies came."

questdriven:

It's a great book, the Pilgrim's Progress.

One thing about one's thoughts that is good to remember is that, as Luther said, you can't stop the birds flying over your head but you can stop them making a nest in your hair!

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

Well, when they had, as I said, thus saluted each other, Mr. Money-love said to Mr. By-ends, "Who are they upon the road before us?" for Christian and Hopeful were yet within view.

By-ends. "They are a couple of far countrymen, that after their mode are going on pilgrimage."

Money-love. "Alas, why did they not stay that we might have had their good company, for they and we and you, sir, I hope, are all going on pilgrimage."

By-ends. "We are so indeed, but the men before us are so rigid and love so much their own notions and do also so lightly esteem the opinions of others that let a man be never so godly, yet if he jumps not with them in all things, they thrust him quite out of their company." - John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

When we love the things in this world, we often maintain the attitude towards those who would use their liberty to attend to Christian duties as, "rigid and love so much their own notions." Wouldn't we call them legalistic? You hear, 'They don't partake in drinking alcohol, smoking, or dress vainly. Rather they are a kill joy and abide by too many rules.' Not one of us can judge the motives of another, and even if you were able to discern that a person was being vain, and even sinful, would you suppose to know what work God was doing in their heart? A man may come to faith at the end of his life and everything up to the point of his conversion was for his benefit, yet we might call this man reprobate, idolater, and godless. If we point to Jesus and return goodness for evil, then let the world call us rigid and that we love our own notions, or even judgmental and intolerant.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Christian. ... "It is said of the men of Sodom that they were sinners exceedingly, [Genesis 13:13] because they were sinners before the Lord, that is, in his eyesight, and notwithstanding the kindnesses that he had showed them, for the land of Sodom was now like the Garden of Eden heretofore. This therefore provoked him the more to jealousy and made their plague as hot as the fire of the Lord out of heaven could make it. And it is most rationally to be concluded, that such, even such as these are, that shall sin in the sight, yea, and that too in despite of such examples that are set continually before them to caution them to the contrary, must be partakers of the severest judgements."

Hopeful. "Doubtless thou hast said the truth, but what a mercy is it, that neither thou, but especially I, am not made, myself, this example. This ministereth occasion to us to thank God, to fear before him, and always to remember Lot's wife." - John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

Luke 9:62

New King James Version (NKJV)

62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”


Is there anyone not guilty of looking back? I know I have. I was never fit for the kingdom of God, and I often wonder as Hopeful does that I haven't been made an example as the Sodomites were or Lot's wife. My heart longs to be focused or to always be aware of the kindness of God, but the cares of the world would avert my attention and lead me away from the narrow path. So, I thank God that His mercy has been extended to me. I thank God that He as stooped to a very low degree to pull me out of the miry filth of my sin.

No turning back!

- Davies

 

[Davies]

To Rest in Jesus Christ

Doesn't every Christian long to be at rest? Doesn't the world bring its trouble and disturb us? Don't we struggle against sin now? Perhaps to my shame, and sin, I find that I'm not always at rest in Jesus. I dare to say it because it is true. Usually after some heartache, pain, trial, I look to Jesus and say, 'There is nothing left I can do but trust in your grace and mercy.' How fragile we are. If the wind blew hard enough, our flame would go out, the bruised read would be crushed. But thanks unto God He is ever so gentle and kind and deserves all our worship and more.

I saw then that they went on their way to a pleasant river, which David the King called the "river of God" [Psalms 65:9] but John, "The river of the water of life." [Revelation 22:1] Now their way lay just upon the bank of the river. Here therefore Christian and his companion walked with great delight; they drank also of the water of the river, which was pleasant and enlivening to their weary spirits. Besides, on the banks of this river, on either side, were green trees that bore all manner of fruit, and leaves of the trees were good for medicine; with the fruit of these trees they were also much delighted, and the leaves they eat to prevent surfeits and other diseases that are incidents to those that heat their blood by travels. On either side of the river was also a meadow, curiously beautified with lilies. And it was green all the year long. In this meadow they lay down and slept, for here they might lie down safely. When they awoke, they gathered again of the fruit of the trees, and drank again of the water of the river, and then lay down again to sleep. Thus they did several days and nights. Then they sang,

Behold ye how these crystal streams do glide
(To comfort pilgrims) by the highway side;
The meadows green, besides their fragrant smell.
Yield dainties for them, and he that can tell
What pleasant fruit, yea, leaves, these trees do yield,
Will soon sell all that he may buy this field. - John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Ignorance. "Sir, I was born in the country that lieth off there, a little on the left hand; and I am going to the Celelstial City."

Christian. "But how do you think to get in at the gate, for you may find some difficulty there?"

Ignorance. "As other good people do," said he.

Christian. "But what have you to show at that gate that may cause that the gate should be opened unto you?"

Ignorance. "I know my Lord's will, and I have been a good liver, I pay every man his own; I pray, fast, pay tithes, and give alms, and have left my country for whither I am going."

Christian. "But thou camest not in at the wicket-gate, that is, at the head of this way. Thou camest in hither through that same crooked lane, and therefore I fear, however thou mayest think of thyself, when the reckoning day shall come, thou wilt have laid to thy charge that thou art a thief and a robber, instead of getting admittance into the city." - John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

Who is ignorance? The person who says that by what he does, he will be admitted into Heaven. Ignorance says, 'I live righteously. This is my testimony that God has granted me grace.' Foolish and dangerous man. Ignorance will not only go to Hell himself, but he leads others with him. Though I would agree that doing good deeds and living righteously is a grace from God, those things don't earn him a sliver of merit for his salvation. Many confuse sanctification for justification. It's the desperate heart of man to steal God's glory by taking credit for his salvation because he cooperates with the Holy Spirit.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

So he drew nearer and nearer, and at last came up unto them. His name was Atheist, and he asked them whither thy were going.

Christian. "We are going to the Mount Zion."

Then Atheist fell into a very great laughter.

Christian. "What is the meaning of your laughter?"

Atheist. "I laugh to see what ignorant persons you are, to take upon you so tedious a journey; and yet are like to have nothing but your travel for you pains."

Christian. "Why, man? Do you think we shall not be received?"

Atheist. "Received! There is no such place as you dream of in all this world."

Christian. "But there is in the world to come."

Atheist. "When I was ast home in mine own country, I heard as you now affirm, and from that hearing went out to see, and have been seeking this city this twenty years. But find no more of it than I did the first day I set out."

Christian. "We have both heard and believed that there is such a place to be found." -John Bunyan, The Pilgrim's Progress

The truth is that evidence of God surrounds us and is even what we are made of. Who knows the many reasons why people don't believe, we are all without excuse. Not even a dead conscience will be an excuse on the day of judgement.

- Davies

 

[Broncobilly1972]

I found the apologie in the original classic form to be the best part of the book

 

[Davies]

Hi Broncobilly1972,

I hope you find time to read it here and again. I find that it's good to take it slowly because one picture can help you to think of multiple areas of your life.

Here is an excerpt from the Apology:

Wouldst thou divert thyself from melancholy?
Wouldst thou be pleasant, yet be far from folly?
Wouldst thou read riddles and their explanation?
Or else be drowned in thy contemplation?
Dost thou love picking meat? Or wouldst thou see
A man i' the clouds, and hear him speak to thee?
Wouldst thou be in a dream, and yet not sleep?
Or wouldst thou in a moment laugh and weep?


I have to say I like the old English as well.

- Davies

 

[Broncobilly1972]

I like the old English too, but what I find the most important is the understanding the author possessed, it's the questions asked "what does it mean?" Am I missing something it's saying?" And more importantly who we ask to give us understanding of it. I find it's something we fail to do with the bible.

Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? (John 18:34 KJV)
A lot of times we follow what used to be known as a "judas goat" to lead us to the shepherd, instead of seeking, wondering, or asking for ourselves.