The Prophecies of Daniel

[JudaicChristian]

I’m not playing Devils advocate. I honestly don’t believe that the papacy uprooted the Heruli, Vandals, or Ostogoths. There is no historical evidence for that position.
In Christ,

Acts6:5

I presented evidence, and you chose not to except it. And that is the bottom line. The Roman government has undergone many changes over the years, but it is still here. To say something does not count because of some kind of timeout is pure Bull.

 

[Acts6:5]

I presented evidence, and you chose not to except it. And that is the bottom line.

But the reason I didn't accept it is because the Patriarchs of Constantinople had been crowning Byzantine emperors for years prior to the pope's visit, and those bishops were nothing more than the emperors' servants. There was nothing about the 526AD coronation that implied that the papacy had power over the emperor, and there were no further papal coronations of Byzantine emperors following it. You are focused solely on the surface grandeur of a single ceremony without realizing that underneath the surface the coronation hadn't changed the papacy's political position one iota; Pope VIgilius found out that truth as soon as imperial soldiers dragged him kicking and screaming from the Church of Saint Euphemia in 545AD.

The Roman government has undergone many changes over the years, but it is still here. To say something does not count because of some kind of timeout is pure Bull.

I don't even know what you're talking about here.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[JudaicChristian]

I presented evidence, and you chose not to except it. And that is the bottom line.

But the reason I didn't accept it is because the Patriarchs of Constantinople had been crowning Byzantine emperors for years prior to the pope's visit, and those bishops were nothing more than the emperors' servants. There was nothing about the 526AD coronation that implied that the papacy had power over the emperor, and there were no further papal coronations of Byzantine emperors following it. You are focused solely on the surface grandeur of a single ceremony without realizing that underneath the surface the coronation hadn't changed the papacy's political position one iota; Pope VIgilius found out that truth as soon as imperial soldiers dragged him kicking and screaming from the Church of Saint Euphemia in 545AD.

The Roman government has undergone many changes over the years, but it is still here. To say something does not count because of some kind of timeout is pure Bull.

I don't even know what you're talking about here.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

We are talking about Rome, the Catholics, and the three ribs.

 

[JudaicChristian]

I went to a Adventist website and this is what they say: "The Meaning of the Little Horn:

• The Little Horn was different from all the others in that it had eyes
  and a mouth and spoke boastful words. It also caused three of the other
  horns to fall. History records the rise in power of "Papal Rome" in the
  fourth century AD. This was completely different from any other kingdom in
  that it was an ecclesiastical (church) power rather than a political power.
  The power of the Catholic Church stretched beyond national boundaries and
  was only opposed by three of the ten kingdoms mentioned above, the Heruli,
  the Vandals and the Ostrogoths. These were eventually defeated by the power
  of Papal Rome in 493 AD, 534 AD, and 538 AD respectively."

 

[Acts6:5]

We are talking about Rome, the Catholics, and the three ribs.

When I said I didn't know what you were talking about I was referring to the part where you said "To say something does not count because of some kind of timeout...".

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[JudaicChristian]

We are talking about Rome, the Catholics, and the three ribs.

When I said I didn't know what you were talking about I was referring to the part where you said "To say something does not count because of some kind of timeout...".

In Christ,

Acts6:5

Timeout, meaning any break in time for the Roman government or church. Remember, Constantine the Great made Christianity a government function. A theocracy.

 

[Acts6:5]

I went to a Adventist website and this is what they say: "The Meaning of the Little Horn:

• The Little Horn was different from all the others in that it had eyes
  and a mouth and spoke boastful words. It also caused three of the other
  horns to fall. History records the rise in power of "Papal Rome" in the
  fourth century AD. This was completely different from any other kingdom in
  that it was an ecclesiastical (church) power rather than a political power.
  The power of the Catholic Church stretched beyond national boundaries and
  was only opposed by three of the ten kingdoms mentioned above, the Heruli,
  the Vandals and the Ostrogoths. These were eventually defeated by the power
  of Papal Rome in 493 AD, 534 AD, and 538 AD respectively."

Well, I expect an Adventist site to say such things. And as expected, the author of the article made a number of claims without providing a single shred of historical evidence. For instance, the article claims that the papacy was "only opposed by three of the ten kingdoms", referring to the Arian beliefs of the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. But the author doesn't seem to realize that the Visigoths, Sueves, and Lombards that he mentioned earlier were also Arians. So if we go by his line of reasoning, the papacy was actually opposed by six of the ten kingdoms, and continued to be “opposed†by three of them even after the fall of the “Heruliâ€, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

What's even worse is the fact that Odovacer's kingdom and the Ostrogothic kingdom were two of the only Germanic nations in Europe who did not persecute Catholicism, while the Visigoths and the Lombards were guilty of persecuting Catholics even up to the time of Pope Gregory the Great at the end of the 6th Century.

If you take the time to read books on the Germanic invasion of Europe, you'll quickly discover that Odovacer and Theodoric actually went to great lengths to honor the papacy and to strengthen the Catholic Church throughout Italy, and yet this guy has the nerve to say that the "Heruli" and the Ostrogoths were opposed to the papacy? To those of us who have studied that period of history, such claims really are ridiculous. And again, he makes the same tired, baseless claim that the tribes were "defeated by the power of Papal Rome", of course failing to substantiate that idea with anything of substance. I’m willing to guarantee that whoever wrote that article hasn’t spent more than five minutes with their nose in a history book of the Roman Empire, and he is simply repeating the same baseless theories and interpretations that were handed down to him by earlier Adventist commentators.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[Acts6:5]

Timeout, meaning any break in time for the Roman government or church. Remember, Constantine the Great made Christianity a government function. A theocracy.

No, that was Emperor Theodosius; he is the one who turned Catholicism into a theocracy. What Constantine did was end the illegality of Christianity and allowed it to become one of many acceptable Roman "cults", but Constantine did not turn Christianity into the state religion; that was Theodosius.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[JudaicChristian]

Timeout, meaning any break in time for the Roman government or church. Remember, Constantine the Great made Christianity a government function. A theocracy.

No, that was Emperor Theodosius; he is the one who turned Catholicism into a theocracy. What Constantine did was end the illegality of Christianity and allowed it to become one of many acceptable Roman "cults", but Constantine did not turn Christianity into the state religion; that was Theodosius.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

I'm done speaking to you about the subject.

 

[Acts6:5]

I'm done speaking to you about the subject.

I know. And I hope you take the time to do some indepth research on Roman and papal history on your own so that in the future you will be better informed concerning these matters.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[JudaicChristian]

Timeout, meaning any break in time for the Roman government or church. Remember, Constantine the Great made Christianity a government function. A theocracy.

No, that was Emperor Theodosius; he is the one who turned Catholicism into a theocracy. What Constantine did was end the illegality of Christianity and allowed it to become one of many acceptable Roman "cults", but Constantine did not turn Christianity into the state religion; that was Theodosius.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

:biglol

• Theodosius ( 11 January 347 – 17 January 395), also called Theodosius I and Theodosius the Great (Greek: ????????? ?? and ????????? ? ?????), was Roman Emperor from 379 to 395. Reuniting the eastern and western portions of the empire, Theodosius was the last emperor of both the Eastern and Western Roman Empire. After his death, the two parts split permanently. He is also known for making Nicene Christianity the official state religion of the Roman Empire. The Nicene Creed has to do with Trinitarianism being introduced.

• Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus (27 February c. 272[2] – 22 May 337), commonly known in English as Constantine I, Constantine the Great, or (among Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic Christians) Saint Constantine (pronounced /?k?nst?nta?n/ or /?k?nst?nti?n/), was Roman emperor from 306, and the sole holder of that office from 324 until his death in 337. Best known for being the first Christian Roman emperor, Constantine reversed the persecutions of his predecessor, Diocletian, and issued (with his co-emperor Licinius) the Edict of Milan in 313, which proclaimed religious toleration throughout the empire.
  
  The Byzantine liturgical calendar, observed by the Eastern Orthodox Church and Eastern Catholic Churches of Byzantine rite, lists both Constantine and his mother Helena as saints. Although he is not included in the Latin Church's list of saints, which does recognize several other Constantines as saints, he is revered under the title "The Great" for his contributions to Christianity.
  
  Constantine also transformed the ancient Greek colony of Byzantium into a new imperial residence, Constantinople, which would remain the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire for over one thousand years.

 

[Acts6:5]

The Wikipedia info you pasted doesn't invalidate what I said earlier; Theodosius did in fact make Christianity the official state religion of the Roman Empire. Constantine was certainly the first Christian emperor, but he didn't turn Christianity into a "state function"; that was Theodosius. And yes, Constantine moved the imperial capital to Constantinople - but that has nothing to do with making Christianity a "government function". Christianity did not become the state religion of the Roman Empire until 380AD.

“…it was left to Theodosius in 380 to make the final, decisive move, declaring Christianity the official religion of the Empire, and decreeing the general prohibition, never to be revoked, of all pagan cults and sacrificial rites. It was thus Theodosius, rather than Constantine, who ‘made Christianity a state religion, the Catholic church a state church and heresy a state crime'.â€
(Church and State in Contemporary Europe, John T.S. Madeley, pg. 10)

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[Vic C.]

Timeout, meaning any break in time for the Roman government or church. Remember, Constantine the Great made Christianity a government function. A theocracy.

No, that was Emperor Theodosius; he is the one who turned Catholicism into a theocracy. What Constantine did was end the illegality of Christianity and allowed it to become one of many acceptable Roman "cults", but Constantine did not turn Christianity into the state religion; that was Theodosius.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

I'm done speaking to you about the subject.

Lets try to be a little less rude, please, especially if the other member is not being rude to you.

Thank you.

Also, PLEASE site your source(s) when doing a copy/paste. :yes