The prophecy of Tyre

[Barbaros]

It is my personal belief that the prophecy concerning the destruction of Tyre failed. For purposes of simplicity, I am using the KJV.

First of all, it says Tyre will be destroyed, never rebuilt, and covered in water. It also says "Nebuchadrezzar" will be one to destroy it. Many nations also refers to this particular King, as his army was composed of people from many tribes. Jeremiah 25 and II Kings 24 are both examples of "Nebuchadrezzar" leadings armies with many tribes in them. This last point is slightly debatable.

Ezekiel 26
7For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

8He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.

9And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

10By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.

11With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground.

12And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water.

In this last verse in particular, it mentions "in the midst of the water." The city of Tyre was on the island, and things would be destroyed on the island. It also says the spoils will be taken by "Nebuchadrezzar."

13And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard.

14And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

15Thus saith the Lord GOD to Tyrus; Shall not the isles shake at the sound of thy fall, when the wounded cry, when the slaughter is made in the midst of thee?

16Then all the princes of the sea shall come down from their thrones, and lay away their robes, and put off their broidered garments: they shall clothe themselves with trembling; they shall sit upon the ground, and shall tremble at every moment, and be astonished at thee.

17And they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and say to thee, How art thou destroyed, that wast inhabited of seafaring men, the renowned city, which wast strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants, which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it!

18Now shall the isles tremble in the day of thy fall; yea, the isles that are in the sea shall be troubled at thy departure.

19For thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;

20When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;

21I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD.

In verse 19 it says the ocean will cover Tyre, and in 14 and 21 it says it shall not be rebuilt, be no more.

Next up, the Bible even admits that blank did not take Tyre.

17And it came to pass in the seven and twentieth year, in the first month, in the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

18Son of man, Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it:

19Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army.

20I have given him the land of Egypt for his labour wherewith he served against it, because they wrought for me, saith the Lord GOD.

21In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD.

It clearly states "Nebuchadrezzar" did not prevail against Tyre, and got no riches from it.

But was Tyre ever rebuilt when it was destroyed? Yes. Many times. In fact, Jesus later visited it, when it apparently wasn't supposed to exist.

Matthew 15
21Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

Other than that fact, Tyre still exists today. It is no longer an island is connected to the mainland as well, but still exists.
http://www.middleeast.com/tyre.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre

An overhead shot of modern day Tyre.

Anyone care to challenge?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

(Ah, I hear the clatter of tiny fingers across keyboards, frantically pulling up every apologetic site available...)

Here's a "state of the art" explanation for why -

"I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. YOU WILL NEVER BE REBUILT..."

- is NOT a failed prophecy.

"You will never be rebuilt" is ancient metaphorical "trashtalk". An exaggeration. It's not a literal prophecy. It's like saying -

"Yo' momma is so fat when she can sit on a quarter and give George Washington a bloody nose" :P


No wonder the bible can't be proven wrong :roll:

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Geesh, and I thought that all those guys that re-wrote the bible would have caught this passage, but you are a clever, clever man Barbaros.

That's it, I'm turning atheist- I had all my faith tied up in a book.

Wait, I just realized that Ezekiel admits that the prophecy failed.
What was your point again?
Or do you have another clever anecdote from infidels.org? :

 

[Barbaros]

BradtheImpaler:

Is that so? I don't recall God "trashtalking" that much. It does after all, say "I the LORD have spoken it" immediately afterwards. On what do you base your claim, or do you have no evidence?

Orthodox Christian:

Merely doing some debate to keep the mind sharp. Do you have something other than mockery?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

BradtheImpaler:

Is that so? I don't recall God "trashtalking" that much. It does after all, say "I the LORD have spoken it" immediately afterwards. On what do you base your claim, or do you have no evidence?

It is not my claim - I was being sarcastic. I also believe it is a poor excuse, but that is an actual apologetic I came across for Tyre never having been built again. Ergo - "no wonder the bible can't be proven wrong" if these sort of explanations are accepted by the faithful.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

BradtheImpaler:

Is that so? I don't recall God "trashtalking" that much. It does after all, say "I the LORD have spoken it" immediately afterwards. On what do you base your claim, or do you have no evidence?

Orthodox Christian:

Merely doing some debate to keep the mind sharp. Do you have something other than mockery?

My bad- no offense intended...it's just that people spam polemics from sites devoted to atheism/Islam/you name it, and I find that giving them a sincere reply has been invariably a waste of time. Suffice to say that the premise of your first post is flawed because it is, in essence, that biblical prophecy fails. Being as a prophecy specifically pointed out as failing within the scripture itself was the proof text that biblical prophecy fails, the premise only succeeds in establishing the established . In other words, it fails.

Regarding God talking smack and keeping it real:
check out Psalm 2:1-4

James

 

[PHIL121]

OH...where to begin with this trainwreck......

First of all, it says Tyre will be destroyed, never rebuilt, and covered in water. It also says "Nebuchadrezzar" will be one to destroy it.
In this last verse in particular, it mentions "in the midst of the water." The city of Tyre was on the island, and things would be destroyed on the island. It also says the spoils will be taken by "Nebuchadrezzar."

"After a 13 year seige (585-573 BC) by Nebchadnezzar II, Tyre made terms and acknowledged Babylonian suzeirity" ...Encylopedia Britannica

The original "old city" of Tyre was NOT on an island, it was one the mainland. When its walls were breached by Nebchadnezzar armies, they found it deserted. Most of he population had moved off the mainland, to the "island city" of Tyre (the one shown in the pic). The mainland city was destroyed while the "new Tyre" continued to prosper under Babylonian, and later, Persian rule.

Next up, the Bible even admits that blank did not take Tyre.
It clearly states "Nebuchadrezzar" did not prevail against Tyre, and got no riches from it.

Nebchadnezzar did indeed prevail against Tyre, but it was a pyrriac victory. It was much easier for him to prevail against the entire land of Egypt than it was to conquer the small city of Tyre.

But was Tyre ever rebuilt when it was destroyed? Yes. Many times. In fact, Jesus later visited it, when it apparently wasn't supposed to exist..

Your ignorance of history is showing here. As I said earlier, the original mainland city of Tyre (as opposed to "new Tyre", as shown in your pic) was destroyed. All that remains of it, is a small fishing village..."a place for spreading of nets" (Ez 26:5)

And there's more....
When Alexander the Great moved against the Persian Empire, he also laid seige to the "new, island Tyre". To conquer the "new Tyre, he built a causeway to the "new Tyre" by laying "thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water"(Ez 26:12) from the original Tyre that had been long abandoned. That's why your pic shows "island Tyre" connected to the mainland, it wasn't until Alexander's time. Thus "old Tyre" was made "like the top of the rock". Since Alexander's time nothing has been rebuilt on the site of "old Tyre" except that small fishing village. This despite the fact there is a large fresh water spring that could support a large city.