The Rapture Timing, The Rapture Explained

[WalterandDebbie]

Sunday 8-4-24 1st Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 28 5784 46th. Summer Day

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Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[for_his_glory]

Mostly a lot of speculations and uncertainties mixed in with a few truths. I just want to touch on Daniel 7 and Rev 6.

Rev 12:3 the other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been cast out of heaven until the beginning of the 3 1/2 year tribulation. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This is also confirmed in Rev 17 as mystery Babylon is described. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty with the Muslims in which the Dome of the Rock will be given over to the son of perdition as he reigns from the very Temple mount of God. This is the abomination Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15, 16 that we are to flee from when we see the son of perdition take his seat in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years.

Rev 13 the beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and a false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire that received its deadly wound back in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. That caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (ten horns). The wound was healed in 1929 by Mussolini.

God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation during the time of the seventh trumpet, not a seven year tribulation, as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 1/2 years or 3 Times as the Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 1/2 years.
[Scripture reference]
Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7
1260 days Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
42 months Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

No where in scripture does it mention a seven year tribulation, but only seven trumpets of God's fierce wrath as scripture says we will always have tribulations as the last time will be such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, Matthew 24:21; Deut 4:30-31; 7:19; 29:1-6; 1 Samuel 26:24; Matthew; John 16:33; Romans 12:12; 24:21; James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6.

Below is that of the seven remaining nations described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.

The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo - Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximately from 536BC - 330BC

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome and Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.

The beast rises up out of the sea, Rev 13, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:15-28.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon) which causes man to take its mark. Daniel 7:25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-12.

 

[for_his_glory]

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Revelation 6:1-8
First seal - white horse, Matthew 24:5

Second seal - red horse Matthew 24:6

Third seal - black horse Matthew 24:7

Fourth seal - pale horse Matthew 24:8,9

The scoffers say we have always had wars and rumors of war, nations against nations, pestilences, and earth quakes and they are right about that, but do not see the greater sign even here in America that all these things are on a greater scale worldwide and not centrally located anymore. The increase is the beginning of sorrows spoken of in Matthew 24:1-13 and Rev Chapter six as I believe we are into the first six seals with the seventh seal getting closer that begins the seven trumpets sounding. Maybe in our life time or not, it is still coming and now is the time to be prepared for the return of the Lord.

They do not see that of antichrist who will promise peace and show great wonders in the sky that could even deceive the very elect if possible as this false prophet will show that of Christ coming in the air and many will see this false Christ and take the mark of this beast, bowing down and worship the beast, Revelation chapter 13.

Revelation 6:1-8:

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

White horse represents a rider with great power and authority as in early wars where Generals would always ride a white horse as they went forth conquering and to conquer. The rider of this white horse is a false Christ: Matthew 24:5, 24; Revelation 19:11-15.

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Red horse symbolizes Global war bringing much bloodshed to the land. The rider on the red horse takes peace from the earth and they should kill one another and there was given unto him a great sword: Matthew 24:6-10; Revelation 19:15

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Black horse is a symbol of famine as the rider holds a pair of balances in his hands causing much famine which follows after wars. Many will not be able to afford a days wage in order to feed for their families. Instead of coming to God they reach out to the beast out of the earth as they receive the mark of this beast, Rev 13; 1 Kings 8:37-43; Romans 8:34.

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Pale horse is a symbol of sickness and disease that follows after war that causes great famine in the world as many become sick and weak from dehydration and malnutrition and eventually die.

The pale horse riders name is Death. Following Death is Hell which means one that is laid in a grave after they have physically died as you can read in Strong's Exhausted Concordance Hebrew #7585 Greek # 86. Death is not a final destination, but a state of being until Christ returns and all, saint and sinner, will hear the voice of Christ to raise from their graves as some will raise to eternal life and some to eternal damnation, John 5:28, 29, Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There is no "sudden disappearance" rapture, what is called "rapture" in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. It's scheduled on a feast of trumpet, hence the sound of trumpet and the shout of an archangel, not any random time "in the twinkling of an eye". This used to be common knowledge, unfortunately it had been long lost.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

There is no "sudden disappearance" rapture, what is called "rapture" in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. It's scheduled on a feast of trumpet, hence the sound of trumpet and the shout of an archangel, not any random time "in the twinkling of an eye". This used to be common knowledge, unfortunately it had been long lost.

Hi Carry_Your_Name, Amen.

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[Paul E. Michael]

There is no "sudden disappearance" rapture, what is called "rapture" in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is the second coming of Christ

Your phrase "the second coming of Christ" is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
To where, exactly, are you claiming Christ is being said to come in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?
I can't even find your word "come" in the passage you cited:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, which word in this passage did you misread as "come"?

Clearly, Paul teaches, here, that the Lord shall descend from heaven. And, necessarily, to descend from heaven is to descend to somewhere. So, I suppose you could take Christ as "coming" to where He descends to. But, where, exactly according to you, is Paul here saying Christ descends to? I observe that nothing, whatsoever -- in this passage you have cited and said "is the second coming of Christ" -- is said about Christ descending to Earth. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

So, which word in this passage did you misread as "come"?

Not here, but Acts 1:11. "Descend from heaven" is the fulfillment of "in like manner".

"Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

But, where, exactly according to you, is Paul here saying Christ descends to? I observe that nothing, whatsoever -- in this passage you have cited and said "is the second coming of Christ" -- is said about Christ descending to Earth. Wouldn't you agree?

Where he ASCENDED into heaven, which is Mount Olives as described in Acts 1:12 -

"Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey."

His return to the exact same location was prophesized in Zech. 14:1-4 -

"Behold, the day of the Lord is coming ... And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east."

This is not according to me or St. Paul, but the Lord's own prophecy. Ignorance is not strength.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

To where, exactly, are you claiming Christ is being said to come in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

Where he ASCENDED into heaven, which is Mount Olives as described in Acts 1:12

This is not according to me or St. Paul,

It's clearly according to you, but clearly (as you admit) not according to Paul. There, you've just admitted that Paul, in the passage you cited (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) says nothing about the Lord Jesus Christ returning to the Mount of Olives.

but the Lord's own prophecy.

All Bible prophecy is the Lord's own prophecy, including Bible prophecy given by Him through His Apostle, Paul. Your error of confounding the Lord's prophecy recorded in Acts 1:12 with His prophecy given through Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is ignorance, not strength.

 

[eddif]

The Rapture Timing, The Rapture Explained​

Since time ceases at the end.

Is order of events what is being discussed?
A thousand year day?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's clearly according to you, but clearly (as you admit) not according to Paul. There, you've just admitted that Paul, in the passage you cited (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) says nothing about the Lord Jesus Christ returning to the Mount of Olives.

But it was talking about the second coming according to Luke, and Lord Jesus himself in the Olivet Discourse. The sounding of trumpet is directly associated with the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31), Paul was corroborating that. Paul didn't write any of the verses I quoted, that's what I meant.

All Bible prophecy is the Lord's own prophecy, including Bible prophecy given by Him through His Apostle, Paul. Your error of confounding the Lord's prophecy recorded in Acts 1:12 with His prophecy given through Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is ignorance, not strength.

Those two are describing the same ONE event, not two. The Lord has a glorious return as the King of kings and Lord of lords in Rev. 19:11-21, right after that the martyrs of Christ are resurrected in Rev. 20:4-6. 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is describing the same event. Treating them as two separate events is ignorance, not strength.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

But it

"It" what? To what are you referring by your pronoun, "it"? For you to not specify exactly to what (if anything) you are referring by your pronoun "it" is for you to fail to have a point.

was talking about the second coming according to Luke

There's your extra-Biblical phrase, again: "the second coming". If by that phrase you are referring to 1) the event of Jesus' coming to the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:11-12), then by it you are not referring to 2) the event of Jesus' descent from heaven Paul writes of in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, since those are two, different events. So, to which one (if either) of those two, different events are you referring by your extra-Biblical phrase, "the second coming": 1 or 2?

Those two are describing the same ONE event, not two.

Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, says nothing about the Lord Jesus coming to, or planting His feet upon, the Mount of Olives, so you err by your eisegesis.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice that Paul says "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout", and that he does not say what you're trying to make him say: "the Lord himself shall descend [TO THE MOUNT OF OLIVES] from heaven with a shout". And just by reading the passage it is easy to learn where Paul is saying the Lord descends from heaven to: viz., to "the air", where the Church, being raptured, meets Him. Your inability or refusal to carefully read what Paul wrote, and your erring by eisegesis, are not strength.

The sounding of trumpet is directly associated with the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31)

Your extra-Biblical phrase, "the second coming", is nowhere to be found in the passage you just cited. So much for "directly associated".

Paul was corroborating that.

So, according to your imagination, because two, different passages speak of trumpet soundings, you are somehow warranted in claiming the two passages must be different accounts of a single event, and cannot be accounts of two, different events? Here’s the Matthew 24:29-31 passage you cited:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, says nothing whatsoever about any of these things:

• the sun being darkened,
• the moon not giving her light,
• the stars falling from heaven,
• the powers of the heavens being shaken,
• the sign of the Son of man in heaven,
• the tribes of the earth mourning,
• the tribes of the earth seeing the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory,
• the Son of man sending His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
• the Son of man's angels gathering together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Clearly, you are totally wrong in your assertion about these passages you have cited, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 and Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[eddif]

Gets interesting in a hurry.

If a seed is equal to the Word of God.
Then meeting in the air can be a spiritual place. A mountain can be what was previously talked about on the mountain that was burned up when time ended.

but
That is just a thought. Jesus spoke in parables so that hearing they hear not and seeing they see not.

Symbolism exists apart from exact context.

No physical way ground is men’s hearts.

But
A new heart of flesh can contain a better place for the Word of God.

Hebrews 12:18 kjv
18. For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19. And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

Our mental box has to be pretty large.

If someone has already said this. Sorry.

Mississippi trfneck
eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1 Corinthians15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming (first coming was when He was born here on earth) as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.

Reference:
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16
Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:
1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery
2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There's your extra-Biblical phrase, again: "the second coming". If by that phrase you are referring to 1) the event of Jesus' coming to the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:11-12), then by it you are not referring to 2) the event of Jesus' descent from heaven Paul writes of in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, since those are two, different events. So, to which one (if either) of those two, different events are you referring by your extra-Biblical phrase, "the second coming": 1 or 2?

False dilemma. Those two are the same. Just because something is extra biblical doesn't make it unture. The word "trinity" or "bible" or "atonement" is nowhere to be found in the bible, are they all made up?

Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, says nothing about the Lord Jesus coming to, or planting His feet upon, the Mount of Olives, so you err by your eisegesis.

As I said, Paul was corroborating the second coming stated in those other verses I quoted, the error is yours.

Notice that Paul says "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout", and that he does not say what you're trying to make him say: "the Lord himself shall descend [TO THE MOUNT OF OLIVES] from heaven with a shout". And just by reading the passage it is easy to learn where Paul is saying the Lord descends from heaven to: viz., to "the air", where the Church, being raptured, meets Him. Your inability or refusal to carefully read what Paul wrote, and your erring by eisegesis, are not strength.

The Lord does NOT descend twice, one on Mount Olives, another time on somewhere else you think Paul meant it to be. You've got any Scripture to prove there're more than two returns? That's your erring by eisegesis, which is not strength.

Your extra-Biblical phrase, "the second coming", is nowhere to be found in the passage you just cited. So much for "directly associated".

Your extra-Biblical phrase, "rapture", is nowhere to be found in the passage you just cited.

Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, says nothing whatsoever about any of these things:

• the sun being darkened,
• the moon not giving her light,
• the stars falling from heaven,
• the powers of the heavens being shaken,
• the sign of the Son of man in heaven,
• the tribes of the earth mourning,
• the tribes of the earth seeing the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory,
• the Son of man sending His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
• the Son of man's angels gathering together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Clearly, you are totally wrong in your assertion about these passages you have cited, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 and Matthew 24:29-31.

In your logic, only one gospel of the four is telling the truth, the other three must be lying, right? In the gospel of John Jesus first appeared to Mary Magdalene at the tomb after his resurrection, in Matthew an angel told Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" the news and then the Lord appeared to them both, according to you those must be two different events, the Lord must've risen twice, or maybe four times, since there're four different accounts, right? Doesn't look like strength to me.

 

[hawkman]

TOS 1.2: If they are truly governed by the Holy Spirit, they will not continually engage in goading, mocking, insulting, trolling, berating or inciting other members to anger and resentment. They will post in a Spirit of kindness and respect, even if there are doctrinal disagreements, and be quick to reconcile if differences of opinion should get heated. Disciplinary actions will be taken against those whom staff regards to be naming the name of Christ and yet are holding the truth in unrighteousness.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Those two

Exactly! As you admit, here, they are TWO events, and not just one, despite your going on to glaringly contradict what you just admitted.

The word "trinity" or "bible" or "atonement" is nowhere to be found in the bible,

What's your "point"? Your pointing out that obvious fact is not analogous to my pointing out that your phrase, "the second coming", is nowhere to be found in the Bible, and thus, is irrelevant.

are they all made up?

Exactly what (if anything) do you mean by your pop phrase, "made up"?

Just because something is extra biblical doesn't make it unture.

I never said it does, though, so what's your "point"?

The Lord does NOT descend twice, one on Mount Olives, another time on somewhere else you think Paul meant it to be.

By your assertion of the falsehood that the Lord does NOT descend TO THE AIR, as the Holy Ghost, through Paul, states that He does, you are warring against God's Word:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You're seriously deceived to imagine that the air, to which Paul, here, states the Lord descends, is not really the air, but is, instead, the Mount of Olives. Paul says nought in that passage about Christ descending to the Mount of Olives. You're not going to be able to whitewash your glaring eisegetical error.

You've got any Scripture to prove there're more than two returns?

"Returns"? I don't remember having used that word. Feel free to try to quote my exact words if you wish to say that I said "return" or "returns". Have fun with that!

Paul, in our 1 Thessalonians 4 text, says nothing about Christ RETURNING somewhere. There, yet again, you err by your glaring eisegesis against what the Holy Ghost has written through Paul. Have fun "proving" your falsehood that Paul, in our 1 Thessalonians 4 text, writes of Christ RETURNING somewhere, since you have no hope of ever proving it.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Your extra-Biblical phrase, "rapture", is nowhere to be found in the passage you just cited.

So, then, you deny the truth that Paul states -- that "we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP (IOW, RAPTURED) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air"?

Do you wish to claim that, instead of the truth Paul clearly states, he actually means that"we who are alive and remain", etc., will all simultaneously walk up, from all over the earth, to meet Christ at the Mount of Olives?

 

[Hidden In Him]

So much for "directly associated". That's your erring by eisegesis, which is not strength.

and your erring by eisegesis, are not strength.

That's your erring by eisegesis, which is not strength.

Doesn't look like strength to me.

Gentlemen, this is not the kind of spirit we foster here. You were both kindly warned in Post #15 about it yet are continuing anyway. Further violations could result in significant down time from this site, possibly several months to half a year.

If you have any questions, please take it up with staff.
Hidden In Him