The Return of Christ

[for_his_glory]

2 Peter 3:19-12 day of the Lord is a part of the whole cross reference of the return of Christ being the last day after the seven trumpets of Gods great wrath is finished. This is the time Christ comes to destroy the beast and the false prophet casting them into the lake of fire. Then comes the catching up of the saints. Those who are still alive at His coming and those who sleep in the grave as He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him in the air.

Before we are caught up to meet Him in the air this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. It is only those who have rejected Christ, both alive and in their graves at His coming that are raised to damnation. There is only one resurrection that takes place on the day Christ returns, but two different judgements.

Matthew 24:29-31; John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19:11-21.

The Lord's day being the day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out on those who refuse to repent. It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing in Rev 1:10. The phrase the day of the Lord is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 1:10). It is also alluded to in other passages (Revelation 6:17; 16:14).

The Lord's day only appears once in scripture in Rev 1:10. It gives no reference to what day of the week it was as every day is the Lord's day, but more specific is also referred to the Sabbath day in Mark 16:9; Acts 2:42; 20:7; 1Corinthians 16:1,2 . John was in the Spirit, but yet in his physical body when he received from the angel all these revelations that he wrote down. Throughout scripture the Lord's day is usually referred to as the Sabbath being the seventh day of the week, Genesis 2:1-3 a day of rest.

 

[Keraz]

It is evident that there are two separate ‘Days of the Lord’ in which the Lord acts to punish His enemies. The Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, is the next prophesied event that we can expect, of a worldwide judgement/punishment by fire from the sun, which will clear and cleanse the holy Land. Most clearly described in Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 63:1-6 and Habakkuk 3:12 ‘Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.’ But the Lord is not seen: Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11

Then, much later, at the glorious Return of Jesus, is the Sixth and Seventh Bowl fulfilment, Revelation 16:17-24...the great Day of the Sovereign Lord, when He destroys the armies of the Anti Christ by the Sword of His Word – NOT by fire and chains Satan up. Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5

 

[RandyK]

2 Peter 3:19-12 day of the Lord is a part of the whole cross reference of the return of Christ being the last day after the seven trumpets of Gods great wrath is finished. This is the time Christ comes to destroy the beast and the false prophet casting them into the lake of fire. Then comes the catching up of the saints. Those who are still alive at His coming and those who sleep in the grave as He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him in the air.

Before we are caught up to meet Him in the air this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. It is only those who have rejected Christ, both alive and in their graves at His coming that are raised to damnation. There is only one resurrection that takes place on the day Christ returns, but two different judgements.

Matthew 24:29-31; John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19:11-21.

The Lord's day being the day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out on those who refuse to repent. It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing in Rev 1:10. The phrase the day of the Lord is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 1:10). It is also alluded to in other passages (Revelation 6:17; 16:14).

The Lord's day only appears once in scripture in Rev 1:10. It gives no reference to what day of the week it was as every day is the Lord's day, but more specific is also referred to the Sabbath day in Mark 16:9; Acts 2:42; 20:7; 1Corinthians 16:1,2 . John was in the Spirit, but yet in his physical body when he received from the angel all these revelations that he wrote down. Throughout scripture the Lord's day is usually referred to as the Sabbath being the seventh day of the week, Genesis 2:1-3 a day of rest.

The Lord's Day could also, conceivably, be a strange kind of day known to the Lord, such as we read in Zechariah...

Zech 14.7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

John's Revelation may have taken place on a celestial level in which a day did not have ordinary boundaries or normal meteorological changes.

My own view of 2 Peter 3 is as follows....

2 Pet 3.9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

The OT eschatological pattern indicates that Israel's fulfillment as a nation, and along with it Christian nations, will come when Messiah comes to establish God's Kingdom on earth. This is set out pretty clearly in Dan 7--a passage which forms a major NT point of reference for NT eschatology.

The Son of Man descends from the clouds of heaven to defeat the Beast and to establish God's Kingdom forever. That means Israel would no longer be oppressed by the nations. And that means, in the NT sense, that other nations would experience peace, as well. The thousand year period is not described in OT Prophecy, but is set forth explicitly only in the book of Revelation.

That a period extends beyond the 2nd Coming of Christ is logical because Israel cannot enter into a period of rest from her enemies unless she continues to exist in history. And so, we are given a thousand year period in Rev 20.

The difference between Christ's Coming to establish God's Kingdom on earth and the time when there is a new creation appears in Revelation to be the difference between the beginning and the end of the Millennium, roughly. Satan's rebellion at the end of the Millennium is not given a precise duration.

There is confusion between the prophetic descriptions of the deliverance of God's People because there is the deliverance of national Israel at the end of the present age, and there is also the deliverance of God's People at the end of the Millennium.

In the same way, there is a judgment of the wicked, and of Gog and Magog, at the end of this present age, as well as at the end of the Millennium. The judgment of the wicked at the end of this present age involves a nuclear death at Armageddon, I suppose, but does not involve the resurrection of the wicked. The resurrection of the wicked only takes place at the end of the Millennial Age.

These things are highly speculative because we are not given but one map of this in Scriptures--perhaps because it does not enjoy a high level of importance in the present age. So we should share our views, but with a sense of apprehension.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It is evident that there are two separate ‘Days of the Lord’ in which the Lord acts to punish His enemies. The Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, is the next prophesied event that we can expect, of a worldwide judgement/punishment by fire from the sun, which will clear and cleanse the holy Land. Most clearly described in Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 63:1-6 and Habakkuk 3:12 ‘Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.’ But the Lord is not seen: Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11

Then, much later, at the glorious Return of Jesus, is the Sixth and Seventh Bowl fulfilment, Revelation 16:17-24...the great Day of the Sovereign Lord, when He destroys the armies of the Anti Christ by the Sword of His Word – NOT by fire and chains Satan up. Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5

How exactly have the first five seals opened? When and where were the four horsemen judgements?

 

[for_his_glory]

The Lord's Day could also, conceivably, be a strange kind of day known to the Lord, such as we read in Zechariah...

Zech 14.7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

John's Revelation may have taken place on a celestial level in which a day did not have ordinary boundaries or normal meteorological changes.

My own view of 2 Peter 3 is as follows....

2 Pet 3.9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

The OT eschatological pattern indicates that Israel's fulfillment as a nation, and along with it Christian nations, will come when Messiah comes to establish God's Kingdom on earth. This is set out pretty clearly in Dan 7--a passage which forms a major NT point of reference for NT eschatology.

The Son of Man descends from the clouds of heaven to defeat the Beast and to establish God's Kingdom forever. That means Israel would no longer be oppressed by the nations. And that means, in the NT sense, that other nations would experience peace, as well. The thousand year period is not described in OT Prophecy, but is set forth explicitly only in the book of Revelation.

That a period extends beyond the 2nd Coming of Christ is logical because Israel cannot enter into a period of rest from her enemies unless she continues to exist in history. And so, we are given a thousand year period in Rev 20.

The difference between Christ's Coming to establish God's Kingdom on earth and the time when there is a new creation appears in Revelation to be the difference between the beginning and the end of the Millennium, roughly. Satan's rebellion at the end of the Millennium is not given a precise duration.

There is confusion between the prophetic descriptions of the deliverance of God's People because there is the deliverance of national Israel at the end of the present age, and there is also the deliverance of God's People at the end of the Millennium.

In the same way, there is a judgment of the wicked, and of Gog and Magog, at the end of this present age, as well as at the end of the Millennium. The judgment of the wicked at the end of this present age involves a nuclear death at Armageddon, I suppose, but does not involve the resurrection of the wicked. The resurrection of the wicked only takes place at the end of the Millennial Age.

These things are highly speculative because we are not given but one map of this in Scriptures--perhaps because it does not enjoy a high level of importance in the present age. So we should share our views, but with a sense of apprehension.

Thank you for this and the day of the Lord is always in God's timing as no one knows the day or the hour of Christ return, Matthew 24:36-39, but to be ready to be caught up to Jesus when He returns.

 

[RandyK]

Thank you for this and the day of the Lord is always in God's timing as no one knows the day or the hour of Christ return, Matthew 24:36-39, but to be ready to be caught up to Jesus when He returns.

2 Cor 6.2 For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

Amen!

 

[RandyK]

How exactly have the first five seals opened? When and where were the four horsemen judgements?

To be honest I'm not sure the 7 seals are even corresponding to or prophesying a sequence of events chronologically? Are we really to believe that the martyrs under the altar in the 5th seal only represent a single phase in NT history? Martyrs have died all through Christian history!

So I see the opening of these seals as a progressive account of God's history in the NT age with no particular concern about the chronology and relationship of those events. It's just opening a book and perusing its contents with an order that befits telling a story. To turn the account into a map so that we can anticipate their order and fulfillment seems to go against the general sense that we are *not* to try to figure out the "when" and the "where."

But who knows? It's a complex book.

As I've said many times, the judgment of the 6th Seal appears to be anticipatory of Armageddon, and not some preliminary judgment preparing for Christ's Coming. It appears to *be* Christ's Coming, or rather, the battle on earth in which that event takes place. My opinion only....

I'll go one step more, and try to answer your question about the 1st number of seals. These cast history in the light of how God judges nations who have served Him. The world gets to hear the Gospel of Christ, and then turns away from it. Then what befalls the world is the same thing that befell Israel when she turned away from the word of God.

Armies are raised up to put down the edifices and buildings of men--the Tower of Babel we build without the help of God. We try to establish peace without God and end up having our peace taken from us. The economy is not blessed when we turn away from God. And pestilences and diseases afflict those who in turning away from God do evil.

These are the characteristics of the 1st 4 seals, indicating that the world has entered into its final stages, when the Gospel has expanded from Israel to the world, and all turn away from God. It is preliminary to final judgment, which is what the entire Revelation looks forward to, the judgment that occasions the return of Christ to set up his Kingdom on the foundation of God's word.

 

[for_his_glory]

It is evident that there are two separate ‘Days of the Lord’ in which the Lord acts to punish His enemies. The Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, is the next prophesied event that we can expect, of a worldwide judgement/punishment by fire from the sun, which will clear and cleanse the holy Land. Most clearly described in Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 63:1-6 and Habakkuk 3:12 ‘Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.’ But the Lord is not seen: Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11

Then, much later, at the glorious Return of Jesus, is the Sixth and Seventh Bowl fulfilment, Revelation 16:17-24...the great Day of the Sovereign Lord, when He destroys the armies of the Anti Christ by the Sword of His Word – NOT by fire and chains Satan up. Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5

Actually, Jesus returns after the bowl judgements and the fall of mystery Babylon, Rev 17-18, as these seven judgements in Rev 16:1-21 fall on all those who have taken the mark of the beast. These are God's global judgements as He sends these seven angels with the last seven plagues to destroy those who rejected Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

To be honest I'm not sure the 7 seals are even corresponding to or prophesying a sequence of events chronologically? Are we really to believe that the martyrs under the altar in the 5th seal only represent a single phase in NT history? Martyrs have died all through Christian history!

So I see the opening of these seals as a progressive account of God's history in the NT age with no particular concern about the chronology and relationship of those events. It's just opening a book and perusing its contents with an order that befits telling a story. To turn the account into a map so that we can anticipate their order and fulfillment seems to go against the general sense that we are *not* to try to figure out the "when" and the "where."

But who knows? It's a complex book.

As I've said many times, the judgment of the 6th Seal appears to be anticipatory of Armageddon, and not some preliminary judgment preparing for Christ's Coming. It appears to *be* Christ's Coming, or rather, the battle on earth in which that event takes place. My opinion only....

I'll go one step more, and try to answer your question about the 1st number of seals. These cast history in the light of how God judges nations who have served Him. The world gets to hear the Gospel of Christ, and then turns away from it. Then what befalls the world is the same thing that befell Israel when she turned away from the word of God.

Armies are raised up to put down the edifices and buildings of men--the Tower of Babel we build without the help of God. We try to establish peace without God and end up having our peace taken from us. The economy is not blessed when we turn away from God. And pestilences and diseases afflict those who in turning away from God do evil.

These are the characteristics of the 1st 4 seals, indicating that the world has entered into its final stages, when the Gospel has expanded from Israel to the world, and all turn away from God. It is preliminary to final judgment, which is what the entire Revelation looks forward to, the judgment that occasions the return of Christ to set up his Kingdom on the foundation of God's word.

How do you understand Matthew 24:29-31 in its timing?

 

[RandyK]

How do you understand Matthew 24:29-31 in its timing?

Matt 24.29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The "distress" or "tribulation" of those days are the "Great Tribulation" Jesus clearly identified in Luke 21 as a *Jewish Punishment.* Jesus was in this Address referring to Israel's future history, much as many OT prophecies had spoken of nations and their future under God's judgment.

So at the end of Israel's "punishment" the Son of Man will return, just as we read it in Dan 7.

Dan 7.11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Paul wrote that Jesus will come as Messiah and Lord when the current preaching of the Gospel to the Gentile world is finished. Then it will be time to restore Israel, by cutting off the wicked among them, and by forgiving those willing to repent and be saved by conformity to the word of God.

Rom 11.25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

 

[for_his_glory]

Matt 24.29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The "distress" or "tribulation" of those days are the "Great Tribulation" Jesus clearly identified in Luke 21 as a *Jewish Punishment.* Jesus was in this Address referring to Israel's future history, much as many OT prophecies had spoken of nations and their future under God's judgment.

So at the end of Israel's "punishment" the Son of Man will return, just as we read it in Dan 7.

Dan 7.11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Paul wrote that Jesus will come as Messiah and Lord when the current preaching of the Gospel to the Gentile world is finished. Then it will be time to restore Israel, by cutting off the wicked among them, and by forgiving those willing to repent and be saved by conformity to the word of God.

Rom 11.25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

Thank you. Now by what you have said here, how do you understand Galatians 3:24-29 as there are no longer Jew or Gentile, but are one in Christ by faith.

 

[RandyK]

Thank you. Now by what you have said here, how do you understand Galatians 3:24-29 as there are no longer Jew or Gentile, but are one in Christ by faith.

"Gentiles" means "nations." They are not minorities but political units.

Paul is talking about the non-disciminatory nature of the Gospel, that it is no longer aimed soley at Israel but now at all nations. Israel was never discriminatory, allowing other nationals to join her nation. But in the OT era the nations were pagans and in order to become part of Israel they had to convert to Israel's Law, the Law of Moses.

Paul full well knew that the distinctions of all nations remained in effect. He regularly referred to Israel as a distinct nation, as well as other nations.

So what he was saying is that "in regard to Salvation" it is irrelevant whether one is Jew, Greek, or Roman. Paul was certainly not saying that "Jews" no longer existed, nor that they have no future in a restored nation of Israel. My view only...

 

[for_his_glory]

"Gentiles" means "nations." They are not minorities but political units.

Paul is talking about the non-disciminatory nature of the Gospel, that it is no longer aimed soley at Israel but now at all nations. Israel was never discriminatory, allowing other nationals to join her nation. But in the OT era the nations were pagans and in order to become part of Israel they had to convert to Israel's Law, the Law of Moses.

Paul full well knew that the distinctions of all nations remained in effect. He regularly referred to Israel as a distinct nation, as well as other nations.

So what he was saying is that "in regard to Salvation" it is irrelevant whether one is Jew, Greek, or Roman. Paul was certainly not saying that "Jews" no longer existed, nor that they have no future in a restored nation of Israel. My view only...

Revelations is given to all nations and tongues that live throughout the whole world as in Jew and Gentile. Israel is mainly mentioned, but not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31. This is why our attention needs to be on those things that are happening in Israel especially Jerusalem as being Gods Holy City.

Within Gods final chastisement on man He continues to call them to repentance and one has to take into consideration during the time of the seven trumpets sounding what God pours out that destroys man will be a third part of every nation simultaneously being destroyed unless they repent and turn back to God. This also includes those who call themselves a Christian, but by name only as they have not Gods Holy Spirit dwelling in them and will also be destroyed, Matthew 7:21.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

To be honest I'm not sure the 7 seals are even corresponding to or prophesying a sequence of events chronologically? Are we really to believe that the martyrs under the altar in the 5th seal only represent a single phase in NT history? Martyrs have died all through Christian history!

It must be in chronological order because that's the context. You can argue that the seven seals and the seven signs (the woman, dragon, two beasts, angels, etc.) are parallel accounts, the seven trumpets and the seven bowls are parallel accounts, but both accounts are prophesies of apocolyptic events, they don't stretch out over the entire NT history. Any martyr that passed away before the four horsemen judgement will simply join those who did and cry out for revenge together.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, (Rev. 1:10)
Write the things which you have seen, things which are, and things which must take place after this. (Rev. 1:19)
After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. (Rev. 4:1)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I'll go one step more, and try to answer your question about the 1st number of seals. These cast history in the light of how God judges nations who have served Him. The world gets to hear the Gospel of Christ, and then turns away from it. Then what befalls the world is the same thing that befell Israel when she turned away from the word of God.

Armies are raised up to put down the edifices and buildings of men--the Tower of Babel we build without the help of God. We try to establish peace without God and end up having our peace taken from us. The economy is not blessed when we turn away from God. And pestilences and diseases afflict those who in turning away from God do evil.

These are the characteristics of the 1st 4 seals, indicating that the world has entered into its final stages, when the Gospel has expanded from Israel to the world, and all turn away from God. It is preliminary to final judgment, which is what the entire Revelation looks forward to, the judgment that occasions the return of Christ to set up his Kingdom on the foundation of God's word.

Revelation is a complex book only when you're clueless about the previous books, especially OT prophecies. I always say that jumping straightforward to Revelation is like skipping to the finale of a tv series without watching any previous episodes or to the epilogue of a novel without reading any previous chapters. If you were familiar with the previous books, you'd instantaneously recognize the references.

According to traditional dispensationalist view, the 1st seal, the white horse, is the Antichrist appearing as the Christ; Christ returned on a white horse, so does the Antichrist, and the similarity stops there. Then the bow, the crown and the conquest are interpreted as a rising totalitarian regime that takes over the whole world through soft power, that's just conspiracy. A more biblical interpretation of this rider is Joseph's descendants, he's given a bow and a crown, and most importantly, he's strengthened by Christ. Satan's archers shot fiery darts at him, yet he overcomes them all.

Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. (Rev. 6:1)

Joseph is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a well;
His branches run over the wall.
The archers have bitterly grieved him,
Shot at him and hated him.
But his bow remained in strength,
And the arms of his hands were made strong
By the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
By the God of your father who will help you,
And by the Almighty who will bless you
With blessings of heaven above,
Blessings of the deep that lies beneath,
Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
The blessings of your father
Have excelled the blessings of my ancestors,
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills.
They shall be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brothers.
(Gen. 49:22-26)

 

[RandyK]

Revelation is a complex book only when you're clueless about the previous books, especially OT prophecies. I always say that jumping straightforward to Revelation is like skipping to the finale of a tv series without watching any previous episodes or to the epilogue of a novel without reading any previous chapters. If you were familiar with the previous books, you'd instantaneously recognize the references.

According to traditional dispensationalist view, the 1st seal, the white horse, is the Antichrist appearing as the Christ; Christ returned on a white horse, so does the Antichrist, and the similarity stops there. Then the bow, the crown and the conquest are interpreted as a rising totalitarian regime that takes over the whole world through soft power, that's just conspiracy. A more biblical interpretation of this rider is Joseph's descendants, he's given a bow and a crown, and most importantly, he's strengthened by Christ. Satan's archers shot fiery darts at him, yet he overcomes them all.

Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. (Rev. 6:1)

Joseph is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a well;
His branches run over the wall.
The archers have bitterly grieved him,
Shot at him and hated him.
But his bow remained in strength,
And the arms of his hands were made strong
By the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
By the God of your father who will help you,
And by the Almighty who will bless you
With blessings of heaven above,
Blessings of the deep that lies beneath,
Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
The blessings of your father
Have excelled the blessings of my ancestors,
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills.
They shall be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brothers.
(Gen. 49:22-26)

I think you fail to sweep away the cobwebs of uncertainty about Revelation. Nearly everybody has a problem interpreting some of it! And clearly, a common reference to a bow and arrow does *not* indicate a relationship between two very different prophecies!

I'm not a Dispensationalist, so I'm aware of how the 7 year Tribulation gets puts in there together with the disappearance of the Church to heaven. So why do we even care what happens on the earth at that point, if we're already in heaven?

But I think the book was written for Christians in danger of Roman persecution. It was a lesson the Church of all ages can learn, that expressing our faith in Christ can be challenging in an ungodly world. There is no escape from persecution for Christians.

But I think the easiest comparison that can be made, the way you're describing it, is by seeing the connection between Revelation and Dan 7. The prophecy of the coming Son of Man needs no stretching to show the comparison.