The Rock that Jesus Builds his Church is not Peter

[cj]

The city of New Orleans should had never had been build on that land.

And yet, God allowed it to be built there. Therefore, it was built right where it was built and thus serves God's purpose.

Believers today have only a little knowledge, don't make the mistake of many and try to go beyond your measure.

The correspondence of the sun in the Word means love, the moon means faith. The woman clothed with the sun, means the New Church, with the moon under her feet means faith. And upon the head a crown of twelve stars," signifies its wisdom and intelligence from the knowledges of Divine good and Divine truth from the Word. The child that was about to be delivered, means the doctrine of that church. The woman delivering the child in pain, means a difficult reception on account of the resistance against the New Church by those who are meant by the dragon.

You are seeing something through thick veils; seeing, but in very dim light.

Read the following.......

Revelation  12 : 1, "And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon underneath her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;"

The first section of this book, composed of the first eleven chapters, covers all things that occur from Christ's ascension to eternity. The second section, composed of the last eleven chapters, gives details of the important things and crucial matters occurring from the last three and a half years of the present age, which will be the period of the great tribulation, to the eternal age of the new heaven and new earth. The first of the important things and crucial matters revealed in this section is a woman who brought forth a man-child.

This woman is "clothed with the sun, and the moon underneath her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." In Gen. 37:9, Joseph in his dream saw the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars, signifying his father, his mother, and his eleven brothers. There the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars, plus Joseph himself, signified the totality of God's people on the earth. Based on the principle of that dream, the sun, the moon, and the twelve stars here must signify the totality of God's people on earth, which is symbolized here by a woman. Most of her being is clothed with the sun. The sun signifies God's people in the New Testament age. Before Christ came to the world, it was the dark night of the Old Testament age. When Christ as the rising sun came from on high (Luke 1:78), the age of the sun came. Before that, it was the age of the moon, which signifies God's people in the Old Testament time. The moon is underneath the feet of the woman, for the age of the moon was the age of the law, which should not be exalted as the stars are. The stars, which signify the patriarchs, God's people before the law was given, are on her head as a crown. All God's people in these three ages, who together constitute this woman, are light bearers. Hence, she is the bright woman shining throughout all generations.


Revelation  12 : 2, "And she was with child, and she cried out, travailing in birth and being in pain to bring forth."

The child here, being a man-child (v. 5), signifies the stronger part of God's people. Throughout all generations there are some stronger ones among God's people. These are considered in the Bible a collective unit fighting the battle for God and bringing God's kingdom down to earth.

Revelation  12 : 2, "And she was with child, and she cried out, travailing in birth and being in pain to bring forth."

Travailing in birth and being in pain to bring forth signifies that throughout all generations God's people have been suffering the travail of delivery (Isa. 26:17-18; Jer. 6:24; 13:21; 30:6; Micah 4:9-10; 5:3; Gal. 4:19) to bring forth the man-child that he may fight for God's kingdom.


Revelation  12 : 5, "And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne."

Brought forth here signifies resurrection, as in Acts 13:33-34. The man-child is composed of the overcoming saints who have died and been resurrected. This is proved by the words unto death in v. 11.


(Notes to verses taken from the Recovery Version bible.)


In love,
cj

 

[Vic C.]

Wow! That is the strangest interpretation I've ever read concerning Rev. 12. :o

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Wow! That is the strangest interpretation I've ever read concerning Rev. 12. :o

Well, I've been to a forum where one of the guys was claiming that the heavenly city of Jerusalem is currently hidden behind Jupiter. I tried to let him know that we've had unmanned spacecraft orbit Jupiter and her moons, and they reported no heavenly Jerusalem- but he assured me that I just was not yet illumined from the scripture.

Deja vu all over again.

 

[cj]

Wow! That is the strangest interpretation I've ever read concerning Rev. 12. :o

Well, I've been to a forum where one of the guys was claiming that the heavenly city of Jerusalem is currently hidden behind Jupiter. I tried to let him know that we've had unmanned spacecraft orbit Jupiter and her moons, and they reported no heavenly Jerusalem- but he assured me that I just was not yet illumined from the scripture.

Deja vu all over again.

Still, you worship an apostate institution and serve its false doctrine.

Look after yourself oh self-important one,.... preacher from pulpits and stages, in homes and prisons.

Or maybe you thought I'd miss that boast of your's.


In love,
cj

 

[Solo]

Well, I've been to a forum where one of the guys was claiming that the heavenly city of Jerusalem is currently hidden behind Jupiter. I tried to let him know that we've had unmanned spacecraft orbit Jupiter and her moons, and they reported no heavenly Jerusalem- but he assured me that I just was not yet illumined from the scripture.

Deja vu all over again.

That is almost as strange as Mary and saint worship.

 

[cj]

Wow! That is the strangest interpretation I've ever read concerning Rev. 12. :o

Never-the-less, be humble and take it before the Lord prayerfully.

Allow Him to be the Arbitrator, and not your own concepts.

Understand this, what matters more is not whether what was said is right or wrong but whether you turn to the Lord to hear Him speak, or simply decide within yourself what to do.

Based on my own experience I have come to believe that the above interpretation is on the mark, yet if you try to eat it all at once you will choke on it.

Eat it in small pieces Vic, and consider all the scriptures as you do this.


But tell me, why do you use the word "strange"?

In love,
cj

 

[SpiritualSon]

Wow! That is the strangest interpretation I've ever read concerning Rev. 12. :o

Well, I've been to a forum where one of the guys was claiming that the heavenly city of Jerusalem is currently hidden behind Jupiter. I tried to let him know that we've had unmanned spacecraft orbit Jupiter and her moons, and they reported no heavenly Jerusalem- but he assured me that I just was not yet illumined from the scripture.

Deja vu all over again.

The Holy Word of God was written in correspondences. Woman in the Word corresponds to a church. When the Lord said to His mother from the cross, woman behold thy son, it meant that He gave his church over to us, as our mother, not Mary.

Without the spiritual sense no one would know why the prophet Jeremiah was commanded To buy himself a girdle, and put it on his loins; and not to draw it through the waters, but to hide it in a hole of the rock by Euphrates Jeremiah 13:1-7.
Or why the prophet Isaiah was commanded
To loose the sackcloth from off his loins, and put the shoe from off his foot, and go naked and barefoot three years Isaiah 20:2-3.
Or why the prophet Ezekiel was commanded
To pass a razor upon his head and upon his beard, and afterwards to divide the hairs, and burn a third part in the midst of the city, smite a third part with the sword, scatter a third part in the wind, and bind a few of them in his skirts, and at last throw them into the midst of the fire Ezekiel 5:1-4.

Or why the same prophet was commanded
To lie upon his left side three hundred and ninety days, and upon his right side forty days, and to make himself a cake of wheat, and barley, and millet, and spelt, with the dung of an ox, and eat it; and in the meantime to raise a rampart and a mound against Jerusalem, and besiege it Ezekiel 4:1-15.
Or why the prophet Hosea was twice commanded
To take to himself a harlot to wife Hosea 1:2-9. Hosea 3:2-3.

And many like things. Moreover, without the spiritual sense who would know what is signified by all the things pertaining to the Tabernacle, such as the ark, the mercy-seat, cherubim, lampstand, altar of incense, the bread of faces on the table, and its veils and curtains? Who without the spiritual sense would know what is signified by Aaron's garments of holiness, by his coat, cloak, ephod, urim and thummim, miter, and other things? Who without the spiritual sense would know what is signified by all the things enjoined concerning the burnt-offerings, sacrifices, meat-offerings, and drink-offerings, and also concerning the Sabbaths and feasts? The truth is that not the least thing was commanded concerning them that did not signify something of the Lord, heaven, and the church. From these few examples it may be clearly seen that there is a spiritual sense in all things of the Word and in every particular of it.

"Wars" in the OT signifies spiritual combats, which are of truth against falsity.

The spiritual sense of the Word

No one can see the spiritual sense unless he has been taught real truth. This enables him to see the spiritual sense, when he has some knowledge of correspondences. Someone who has been taught what is false cannot see anything of the spiritual sense; he warps and applies the correspondences he knows to suit his false teaching. He may therefore falsify the Word still more.

This is the reason that no one in the natural world or in the spiritual world is allowed to seek out the spiritual sense of the Word from the literal sense, unless he is completely under the guidance of the teaching of Divine truth and enlightened by the Lord.

The spiritual sense therefore can be seen by the teaching of Divine truth supported by the literal sense of the Word. But the teaching can never first be seen from the spiritual sense.

It is false to think to oneself, `I know many correspondences; so I can know the true teaching of the Divine Word, the spiritual sense will teach it to me.' This cannot happen; but as I have said, let someone say to himself, `I know the teaching of Divine truth, now I can see the spiritual sense, provided I know the correspondences.' But this must still be by enlightenment from the Lord, because the spiritual sense is Divine truth itself bathed in its own light; and this is meant by glory, the literal sense being the cloud, in the passages of the Word about these subjects.

The existence of a spiritual sense in the Word is to be supported by ten passages in the prophetic books, also in the Gospels and the Book of Revelation. These passages are to be quoted and a demonstration given that they would be meaningless without a spiritual sense.

Harry :fadein:

 

[Vic C.]

Based on my own experience I have come to believe that the above interpretation is on the mark, yet if you try to eat it all at once you will choke on it.

Hey, be careful, I had a couple of the UR people tell me much the same thing. 8-)

But tell me, why do you use the word "strange"?

I think it's strange that the explainations you give are different than what the verses say. For instance; Protestant Church is said to be the dragon in your interpretation, but yet Rev 12:9 says Satan is the dragon.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

So... which is it?

When the Lord said to His mother from the cross, woman behold thy son, it meant that He gave his church over to us, as our mother, not Mary.

You have got to be kidding me. How do you get that from this?

John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

It simply implies that Jesus is declaring John to be Mary's son and Mary to be John's mother. Jesus has just declared that John be the 'caretaker' of His mother.

All this digging for deeper and more spiritual meanings is like digging for gold as it is floating down the stream in the current. God is not the author of confusion, so why make it so by saying one must be in a "spiritual sense" to understand scripture? Understanding the culture and context is which it was written is just as impoortant, maybe even moreso.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Wow! That is the strangest interpretation I've ever read concerning Rev. 12. :o

Well, I've been to a forum where one of the guys was claiming that the heavenly city of Jerusalem is currently hidden behind Jupiter. I tried to let him know that we've had unmanned spacecraft orbit Jupiter and her moons, and they reported no heavenly Jerusalem- but he assured me that I just was not yet illumined from the scripture.

Deja vu all over again.

Still, you worship an apostate institution and serve its false doctrine.

Look after yourself oh self-important one,.... preacher from pulpits and stages, in homes and prisons.

Or maybe you thought I'd miss that boast of your's.


In love,
cj

Looks like I pushed one of your numerous hair-trigger buttons- purely accidental, I assure you.

I was just noting how people with cockamamie takes on scripture tend to be rigid and defensive, and claim the other guy ain't spiritual when their pet theories are questioned.

:roll:

BTW:
1. I had no boast in my post
2. Yours, like its, is an adjective, and should not be written as a possessive noun. ('s)

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Based on my own experience I have come to believe that the above interpretation is on the mark, yet if you try to eat it all at once you will choke on it.

Hey, be careful, I had a couple of the UR people tell me much the same thing. 8-)
[quote:25a60]But tell me, why do you use the word "strange"?

I think it's strange that the explainations you give are different than what the verses say. For instance; Protestant Church is said to be the dragon in your interpretation, but yet Rev 12:9 says Satan is the dragon.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

So... which is it?

When the Lord said to His mother from the cross, woman behold thy son, it meant that He gave his church over to us, as our mother, not Mary.

You have got to be kidding me. How do you get that from this?

John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

It simply implies that Jesus is declaring John to be Mary's son and Mary to be John's mother. Jesus has just declared that John be the 'caretaker' of His mother.

All this digging for deeper and more spiritual meanings is like digging for gold as it is floating down the stream in the current. God is not the author of confusion, so why make it so by saying one must be in a "spiritual sense" to understand scripture? Understanding the culture and context is which it was written is just as impoortant, maybe even moreso.[/quote:25a60]
And there you've asked the most important question of all: why? Because we all as bystanders can see the plain and simple meaning. This makes us peers, equals reading together the plain truth of the scriptures.

But if one spiritualizes the text, and allegorizes it and contextualizes it, and plumbs for deeper and deeper hidden meanings, the truth becomes esoteric- meaning only a few have it. And what, after all, do hidden truths give the possessor of same?

Power. Control. Leverage.

Spiritual savvy is addictive. Before I came to the Orthodox faith, as an Evangelical pastor, I rubbed shoulders with not a few itinerant ministers and 'prophets.' Some of these people had legitimate gifts, in my opinion, but even those with genuine gifts seemed to run ever and further over the edge with new revelations and new insights. There's a lot of power (and money) in being the guy on the cutting edge. It can corrupt even the best.

I knew also many of the 'prophetic' types among the laity. Mostly these were sincere and gifted people, but there were a few, mostly men, who hid behind their 'prophetic gifting' as a ruse to cover for their social disorders and general dislike of other people. They never hesitated to speak the hard word, in the guise of love of truth.

These would be diagnosed, should they ever submit to psychological examination, as borderline personality disorder (ie, sociopaths).

 

[stovebolts]

These would be diagnosed, should they ever submit to psychological examination, as borderline personality disorder (ie, sociopaths).

I'm sure John the Baptist would have been in this catagory... Perhaps Noah as well?

This is the problem when Man takes it upon himself to "diagnose" another man with a process written by man, for man, with the understanding of a man... For man can only see the man he chooses to see, because often, we can only see what we can relate to...

 

[Orthodox Christian]

These would be diagnosed, should they ever submit to psychological examination, as borderline personality disorder (ie, sociopaths).

I'm sure John the Baptist would have been in this catagory... Perhaps Noah as well?

This is the problem when Man takes it upon himself to "diagnose" another man with a process written by man, for man, with the understanding of a man... For man can only see the man he chooses to see, because often, we can only see what we can relate to...

Absolutely. I'm pretty certain that John the Baptist would have been diagnosed also, and Ezekiel...forget about it.

My point, not meant to be insensitive, is that those who use the appearance of spirituality, or the prophetic gifting to lord over or otherwise misuse their brethren would rightly be diagnosed as having a personality disorder. This in addition to their spiritual disorder.

 

[cj]

Looks like I pushed one of your numerous hair-trigger buttons- purely accidental, I assure you.

Your declaration of assurance is meaningless as you have no ground within yourself to make such a declaration.

As for pushing my buttons, as scripture tells us, that which is not of God should immediately push a believers buttons. Therefore the majority of what you speak pushes my buttons, and I am in no way ashamed of this.

I was just noting how people with cockamamie takes on scripture tend to be rigid and defensive, and claim the other guy ain't spiritual when their pet theories are questioned.

You did not present a question, neither did Vic.

What you did was subtly suggest error, to which I responded with truth.

Thing is OC, time after time when you are confronted with a scripturally supported counter-point to the content of your poor speaking you retreat into the common religionists house of mirrors way.

In love,
cj

 

[cj]

And there you've asked the most important question of all: why? Because we all as bystanders can see the plain and simple meaning. This makes us peers, equals reading together the plain truth of the scriptures.

But if one spiritualizes the text, and allegorizes it and contextualizes it, and plumbs for deeper and deeper hidden meanings, the truth becomes esoteric- meaning only a few have it. And what, after all, do hidden truths give the possessor of same?

Power. Control. Leverage.

Spiritual savvy is addictive. Before I came to the Orthodox faith, as an Evangelical pastor, I rubbed shoulders with not a few itinerant ministers and 'prophets.' Some of these people had legitimate gifts, in my opinion, but even those with genuine gifts seemed to run ever and further over the edge with new revelations and new insights. There's a lot of power (and money) in being the guy on the cutting edge. It can corrupt even the best.

I knew also many of the 'prophetic' types among the laity. Mostly these were sincere and gifted people, but there were a few, mostly men, who hid behind their 'prophetic gifting' as a ruse to cover for their social disorders and general dislike of other people. They never hesitated to speak the hard word, in the guise of love of truth.

These would be diagnosed, should they ever submit to psychological examination, as borderline personality disorder (ie, sociopaths).

See OC, what you said above is good old straight talk. You've laid it out for all to see.

That's cool,..... but what is your point?

And given your connection with the Orthodox institution, would it be wrong for me to think that your point is seeped in the doctrines of this institution?

I think not, therefore, what makes you any different, as all you've done is change your outward clothing.

And this is the fallacy of religions and their followers.



Now to the truth about digging deeper.........



Proverbs 1: 1-0,

"The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, the king of Israel:

[/b]For knowing wisdom and instruction; For discerning words of understanding; For receiving instruction in wise conduct, Righteousness, justice, and equity; For giving prudence to the simple, Knowledge and discretion to the young man; That the wise man may hear and increase in learning, And he who has understanding may acquire sound counsel; For understanding proverb and figure, The words of the wise and their difficult sayings.[/b].............

The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Hear, my son, the instruction of your father, And do not reject the teaching of your mother; For they will be a wreath of grace for your head And ornaments for your neck."

Proverbs 1:20-23,

"Wisdom cries out in the street; She utters her voice in the open squares.

At the head of the tumultuous street she cries; At the entrance of the gates in the city she utters her sayings: How long, O simple ones, will you love simpleness, And will scoffers delight themselves in scoffing, And will fools hate knowledge?

Turn yourselves at my reproof - Immediately I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you."

Proverb 2:1-11,

"My son, if you receive my words And treasure up my commandments within you, Making your ear attentive to wisdom And inclining your heart to understanding; Indeed, if you cry out for discernment And lift up your voice for understanding; If you seek her like silver And search for her like hidden treasures, Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah And find the knowledge of God. For Jehovah gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding; He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity, Guarding the paths of justice And keeping the way of His faithful ones.

Then you will understand righteousness and justice And equity, indeed, every good path. For wisdom will enter your heart, And knowledge will be pleasant to your soul; Discretion will watch over you; Understanding will keep you:"



Sure sounds like the wisest man (other than the Lord) was clear on how important it was to understand the deep things of God.

Doesn't it.


So why, OC?........ Because God requires it.

That's why.


But, God is very aware of how easy knowledge puffs up, sooooo....... He skillfully uses a thorn, or many thorns, to temper the man he has given much to.


Jesus Himself....... LEARNT OBEDIENCE THROUGH SUFFERING.

Why would a man be obedient to search the scriptures, to pray in all things, even to love God with all that he is?

Because of his experience of suffering.


A university/seminary/institution does not produce a wise and obedient man, only God's economy does.


Power. Control. Leverage............ are all summed up in a man receiving, knowing, becoming, and living Christ.

And to do so requires a man experience the work of the cross.


The cross is the dividing line between the fleshly speaking and resurrection speaking.


And there is so much more in the scriptures says on this, but I'll cut this post off here so as not to make it long.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

........ otherwise misuse........

Check this out.....

Here we see OC pointing at those who "misuse" because of their poor condition, which is as a result of their misplaced opinion of themselves.

Yet........

What is the measure that OC uses to determine the definition of "misuse"?

The answer, his own understanding.


Thus what we have is yet another case of the pot calling the kettle black.



Following OC's line of thought, the donkey that spoke God's words should have been put down for misuse of its position.


This is what happens when scriptural ignorance prevades.


In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Therefore the majority of what you speak pushes my buttons, and I am in no way ashamed of this.

Confession is good for the soul.

I was just noting how people with cockamamie takes on scripture tend to be rigid and defensive, and claim the other guy ain't spiritual when their pet theories are questioned.

You did not present a question, neither did Vic.

Another example of the ever-present buttons: once again, you personalize a generalization.

What you did was subtly suggest error, to which I responded with truth.

"Truth" here being a response which is filled your meaningless opinions.
/yawn

Thing is OC, time after time when you are confronted with a scripturally supported counter-point to the content of your poor speaking you retreat into the common religionists house of mirrors way.

Where is exactly was that "scripturally supported counter-point??"

I must have missed that in the middle of your response.

Still, you worship an apostate institution and serve its false doctrine.

No "scripturally supported counter-point" there, just an ad hominem
Let's keep looking:

Look after yourself oh self-important one,

No "scripturally supported counter-point" there, just an ad hominem

.... preacher from pulpits and stages, in homes and prisons.

No "scripturally supported counter-point" there, just a bizarre non sequitur
let's press on:

Or maybe you thought I'd miss that boast of your's.

No "scripturally supported counter-point" there, just a refernce to a non-existent boast. Wait-perhaps the boast can be found in the same place as the "scripturally supported counter-point" - right next to the heavenly city of Jerusalem.
:



In all sincerity:

Perhaps you could be so kind as to point out your "scripturally supported counter-point" so that I might respond in kind.

Much agape
James

 

[cj]

Hey, be careful, I had a couple of the UR people tell me much the same thing.

In the end all we have is our experience. In fact, scripture tells us that the new name that Jesus gives us will be an issue of our experience with Him.

As for URist telling you the same thing, even Satan quotes truth, but this in no way makes it void in principle, just void of life/reality.

I think it's strange that the explainations you give are different than what the verses say.

Well, this is why we have fellowship, to bring the portion of light we each have to one another.

Its wonderful that God forces us to consider each other by sometimes hiding the deep content of the scriptures.

But lets take a look at the verses.....

For instance; Protestant Church is said to be the dragon in your interpretation, but yet Rev 12:9 says Satan is the dragon.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

So... which is it?

Actually Vic, take another closer look, the notes says nothing about the Protestant Church being the dragon......

........ "Revelation 12:1-18 was meant against the Protestant Church. Verse 3. "And another sign was seen in heaven." This signifies revelation from the Lord concerning those who are against the New Church and its doctrine. Revelation 12:3 "And behold a great red dragon."...... This signifies........ those in the Protestant Church....... who make God into three persons and the Lord two;.......... Who separate charity from faith, and make faith alone saving, and not charity and good works saving at the same time"...............

This specifically focuses on a certain set of persons who can be found within the gathering of the Protestant Church. Persons who teach a false doctrine concerning the nature and expression of God.

These persons express Satan, the dragon.

Can you see Satan? Yet, don't you see Satan in the world's system, and even in men?

A better question is, why is the dragon being connected to persons in the Protestant Church?

And the answer is,....... where would Satan produce the most damage to God's economy? Among the members of God's church; leaven hidden within the fine flour. It is where Satan does his most damaging work against the interests of God on the earth today.


I'm happy though, that from the entire content of what I posted you only found the above to be "strange",...... and even so, possibly as a result of your misreading what was said.





One more thing........ please be clear concerning who you're quoting, as when I read the speaking below I though it had come from what I wrote, and the Lord knows it didn't.

When the Lord said to His mother from the cross, woman behold thy son, it meant that He gave his church over to us, as our mother, not Mary.

This is not from my mouth.

This is.....

John  19 : 26, "Then Jesus, seeing His mother and the disciple whom He loved standing by, said to His mother, Woman, behold, your son."

In Luke 23:43 the Lord said to one of the two thieves crucified with Him, "Today you shall be with Me in Paradise." That word was in regard to salvation, since Luke's Gospel proves that the Lord is the sinner's Savior. Here, in vv. 26-27, the Lord said to His mother, "Behold, your son," and to the disciple whom He loved, "Behold, your mother." These words indicate a life-union, since this Gospel testifies that the Lord is life imparted into His believers. It is by this life that His beloved disciple could be one with Him and become the son of His mother, and that she could become the mother of His beloved disciple.

All this digging for deeper and more spiritual meanings is like digging for gold as it is floating down the stream in the current. God is not the author of confusion, so why make it so by saying one must be in a "spiritual sense" to understand scripture? Understanding the culture and context is which it was written is just as impoortant, maybe even moreso.

Now, perhaps I can say to you "Be careful", as that which is offered on the altar does not sanctify the altar, but the altar is what sanctifies the offering.

Men were created for God, not God for men.

If you want to truly understand man (and his culture) you need to first understand God.

In fact, the content of this particular chapter, Matthew 23, clearly reveals the difference between human perception and divine perception.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Confession is good for the soul.

True confession, and not the religious form that is held to by the religionists.

But, in every post of mine if one desires to see, there is my confession evident.

Another example of the ever-present buttons: once again, you personalize a generalization.

No OC, I know your source, even if you don't.

"Truth" here being a response which is filled your meaningless opinions.
/yawn

My opinions.... your opinions....... tell you what, how bout we just stick to scripture.

Yeh I know, kinda impossible for you right.

Where is exactly was that "scripturally supported counter-point??"

I must have missed that in the middle of your response.

Blindness will cause that to happen.

No "scripturally supported counter-point" there, just an ad hominem....

............... Wait-perhaps the boast can be found in the same place as the "scripturally supported counter-point" - right next to the heavenly city of Jerusalem.
:

Over and over again we can find your pride exposed in your speaking about your self accomplishments.

OC, just read the bible with an open heart,.... you'll come to see the scriptural support I speak of.

In all sincerity:

Perhaps you could be so kind as to point out your "scripturally supported counter-point" so that I might respond in kind.

Just continue to read my post OC,.... just continue to read.

The Lord is faithful.

But really, there are things that need attending to, and so lets put this unprofitable banter away.

In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Confession is good for the soul.

True confession, and not the religious form that is held to by the religionists.

Stick to speaking on subjects you know of. This will limit us to just a few rudimentary topics, and eliminate hundreds of childish tangents

Another example of the ever-present buttons: once again, you personalize a generalization.

No OC, I know your source, even if you don't.

I don't personalize such generalizations, being as I consider the source.

"Truth" here being a response which is filled your meaningless opinions.
/yawn

My opinions.... your opinions....... tell you what, how bout we just stick to scripture.
Yeh I know, kinda impossible for you right.

O boy, ya got me there!

Where is exactly was that "scripturally supported counter-point??"

I must have missed that in the middle of your response.

Blindness will cause that to happen.

Avoidance.

No "scripturally supported counter-point" there, just an ad hominem....

............... Wait-perhaps the boast can be found in the same place as the "scripturally supported counter-point" - right next to the heavenly city of Jerusalem.
:

Over and over again we can find your pride exposed in your speaking about your self accomplishments.

What a bizarre statement: I spoke nothing in that quote of my "accomplishments," nor did I allude to them. Perhaps you read posts as you do scripture: looking for hidden meaning.

OC, just read the bible with an open heart,.... you'll come to see the scriptural support I speak of.

I have, and don't.

In all sincerity:

Perhaps you could be so kind as to point out your "scripturally supported counter-point" so that I might respond in kind.

Just continue to read my post OC,.... just continue to read.

Yet another avoidance. Fact of the matter is you didn't reply with scripture, you replied with malice, and that to a sentiment that was spoken at most of you, not to you.

The Lord is faithful.

But really, there are things that need attending to, and so lets put this unprofitable banter away.

In love,
cj

Yes, why don't you attend to the questions that I asked, like where your "scripturally supported counter-point" is or where my "boast" is.

And let's throw another one in there: it appears as if you have identified the Trinity Doctrine as of the Devil

"And behold a great red dragon." This signifies those in the Protestant Church who make God into three persons and the Lord two;

Did I misunderstand something there?

 

[cj]

................ it appears as if you have identified the Trinity Doctrine as of the Devil,

"And behold a great red dragon." This signifies those in the Protestant Church who make God into three persons and the Lord two;"

Did I misunderstand something there?

Of course you did, what else should be expected.


Be honest OC, and ask me an honest question.

Do I believe that God is Three? Absolutely.

Do I believe that God is One? Absolutely.

Do I believe that the apostate institutions take truths and pervet them so as to deliberately mislead believers in an attempt to lord it over these believers? Absolutely.

Do I believe that the matter of the triune nature and being of God is one of these truths that have been perverted and used by men within the apostate institutions? Absolutely.




Now, having said all that, I need to admit that I am a victim of my own poor editing...... as follows,

In a post to Solo, the one in which I presented the notes on the verses from the book of Revelation, I failed to delete some of the content from Solo's post that I was responding to.

This content is what Vic picked up on and questioned as strange.

In my own response to Vic I took this speaking of Solo's to be a part of the notes I had presented. But I did this in error.

And how did I come to discover this fact?

OC's above question.

For as I began to look more closely at what OC had asked, and wonder why he would ask such a question of me, I went back and reviewed what I had said in my past posts to find out if I might have suggested that I question the triune nature of God.

On reviewing my posts I discovered the error.

Forgive me.


Yet, its most interesting, because as I was responding to Vic's post I did so by first reading the part of Solo's speaking that I had left in my post, as my own..... even finding light in it.

No, I don't agree with what Solo wrote,.... yet, I most certainly believe that Satan works from within corrupt elements found in the body. And these corrupt elements are simply a manifestation of Satan himself.

No, there is no "New Church", yet yes, there are the overcomers from within the church.



So close, so subtle.

How we need to be on our guard as time passes.


In love,
cj