The Rock that Jesus Builds his Church is not Peter

[Orthodox Christian]

................ it appears as if you have identified the Trinity Doctrine as of the Devil,

"And behold a great red dragon." This signifies those in the Protestant Church who make God into three persons and the Lord two;"

Did I misunderstand something there?

Of course you did, what else should be expected.


Be honest OC, and ask me an honest question.

I asked you an honest question, thanks for the direct response.

Do I believe that God is Three? Absolutely.

Do I believe that God is One? Absolutely.

That is essentially what I was inquiring about

Do I believe that the apostate institutions take truths and pervet them so as to deliberately mislead believers in an attempt to lord it over these believers? Absolutely.

I didn't ask about this, and I don't care about your opinion.

Do I believe that the matter of the triune nature and being of God is one of these truths that have been perverted and used by men within the apostate institutions? Absolutely.

see above

Now, having said all that, I need to admit that I am a victim of my own poor editing...... as follows,

In a post to Solo, the one in which I presented the notes on the verses from the book of Revelation, I failed to delete some of the content from Solo's post that I was responding to.

This content is what Vic picked up on and questioned as strange.

Yes, it was strange, but you defended it, so I thought it yours (naturally).

In my own response to Vic I took this speaking of Solo's to be a part of the notes I had presented. But I did this in error.

And how did I come to discover this fact?

OC's above question.

Glad to be of service

For as I began to look more closely at what OC had asked, and wonder why he would ask such a question of me, I went back and reviewed what I had said in my past posts to find out if I might have suggested that I question the triune nature of God.

On reviewing my posts I discovered the error.

Again, glad to be of service

Forgive me.

For what, exactly...an editorial mistake, or something else?

Yet, its most interesting, because as I was responding to Vic's post I did so by first reading the part of Solo's speaking that I had left in my post, as my own..... even finding light in it.

No, I don't agree with what Solo wrote,.... yet, I most certainly believe that Satan works from within corrupt elements found in the body. And these corrupt elements are simply a manifestation of Satan himself.

No, there is no "New Church", yet yes, there are the overcomers from within the church.

Nice, direct answers only lightly seasoned with unsolicited opinion- thanks for that.

 

[SpiritualSon]

When the Lord when in the world He spoke by correspondences, He spoke spiritually while He spoke naturally. This is evident from His parables, in each and every word of which there is a spiritual sense.

All the Lord's miracles, which were Divine because they signified the various states of those with whom the church was to be set up anew by the Lord. When the blind received sight, it signified that they who had been in ignorance of truth should receive intelligence. When the deaf received hearing, it signified that they who had previously heard nothing about the Lord and the Word should hearken and obey; when the dead were raised, it signified that they who otherwise would spiritually perish would become living; and so on. This is meant by the Lord's reply to the disciples of John, who sent them to ask whether He was the one that should come:
Tell John the things which ye do hear and see: the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead rise again, and the poor hear the gospel. Matthew 11:3-5.

Every single thing that exists in nature corresponds to something spiritual, just as every single thing in the human body does. But it is not known today what correspondence is. By contrast, in very ancient times the study of correspondences was the study of studies, so universal that the most ancients wrote all their tablets and scrolls in terms of things that correspond. The legends of the distant past were of just this character, and so were the hieroglyphics of the Egyptians. The book of Job-which is a book of the Ancient Church-is full of things that correspond.

However, when in the course of time the representative features of the church were turned into objects of idolatrous worship, then in the Lord's Divine providence a knowledge of correspondences was gradually blotted out, and in the Israelite and Jewish nation it was entirely lost and extinguished. Indeed, the worship of that nation was completely representational, but still the people did not know what any of the representations signified; for they were altogether natural people, and therefore they were neither able nor willing to know anything about the spiritual person and his faith and love. As a consequence, neither did they know anything about correspondence.

The idolatries of nations in ancient times arose from the study of correspondences among them for the reason that everything appearing on the earth has a correspondence-as, for instance, not only trees, but also animals and birds of every kind, as well as fish, and so on.

The ancients, who had a knowledge of correspondences, made images for themselves that corresponded to spiritual things, and they took delight in them, because they signifiy such things as had to do with heaven and so with the church. They put images like this not only in their temples but also in their houses, not as objects of worship, but to remind them of the heavenly things which they symbolized.

In Egypt they therefore set up images of calves, bulls, snakes, children, old people, and maidens, among other things, because a calf, signifies the innocence of the natural person. Bulls, signifies affections of the natural person, snakes the prudence of the sensual person, a child, signifies innocence. Old people, signifies wisdom. Maidens, signifies, affections for truth, and so forth.

After a knowledge of correspondences was there extinguished, their descendants-who did not know what these things symbolized-began to worship the images and figures set up by the ancients, first as holy objects, and finally as deities, because they were placed in and around temples.

The hieroglyphics of the Egyptians came from the same origin. So did other similar things in other nations-such as Dagon with the Philistines in Ashdod, whose upper half was like that of a man and its lower half like that of a fish. This image was invented because a man signifies rational intelligence, and a fish natural knowledge. From the same origin arose also the worship of the ancients in gardens and in groves according to the kinds of trees growing there, as well as their sacred worship upon mountains.

For gardens and groves signifies spiritual intelligence, and each tree something relating to it. For example, an olive tree symbolized the goodness of the love in that intelligence, a vine the truth of its faith, a cedar its rationality, and so on. And a mountain symbolized heaven. It was because of this that the worship of the most ancients had been held on mountains. The Lord took Peter, James and John up a mountain with Him, because the three represented the church in man. Peter, signifies faith; James, charity; And John, the works of charity.

The Lord's flesh and blood signifies charity and faith or good and truth. To eat His flesh and drink His blood, means to have charity and faith in you. The Lord is charity and faith in man, and man is charity and faith in the Lord.

Harry

 

[SpiritualSon]

The Lord answered my prayer today. This woman, who owns the place I live in, was assuming I moved her things. It was two small bottles of juice. I knew my prints were not on the bottles, but still she didn't believe. I went too work, and on the job I went outside and hid myself and prayed facing east. I always pray facing east. When I went home after work, everything was OK. All she said was hello, and that was it.

If the Lord answered my prayer on a small matter, as this, than if I prayed to Him to show the Catholic Church give a sign that Swedenborg wrote the truth. Swedenborg warned, if such signs were given, the learneth men of the church must not mix their church's doctrine with the New Church's. This means your old beliefs must go.

Here's what I think I should do. I must have two Priests from each group and two Bishops, as witness. We will place two candles on a table, one candles for the Catholics and one candle for me. We will each take turns in praying to God to lite the candles of the church that speaks the truth. If the Catholic Church believes it has the truth, let God show it. Lets see what church He stands by.

I got this idea from the OT. One of the Prophet had ask the Philistines to built themselves an alter too their god, which was the dragon, and the Prophet built one too Jehovah God. The Prophet said to the Philistines, pray to your god to light the fire on your alter. The Philistines prayed and prayed all day, nothing happen. The Prophet said, maybe your god is asleep, go wake him up.

Harry

 

[Orthodox Christian]

The Lord answered my prayer today. This woman, who owns the place I live in, was assuming I moved her things. It was two small bottles of juice. I knew my prints were not on the bottles, but still she didn't believe. I went too work, and on the job I went outside and hid myself and prayed facing east. I always pray facing east. When I went home after work, everything was OK. All she said was hello, and that was it.

If the Lord answered my prayer on a small matter, as this, than if I prayed to Him to show the Catholic Church give a sign that Swedenborg wrote the truth. Swedenborg warned, if such signs were given, the learneth men of the church must not mix their church's doctrine with the New Church's. This means your old beliefs must go.

Here's what I think I should do. I must have two Priests from each group and two Bishops, as witness. We will place two candles on a table, one candles for the Catholics and one candle for me. We will each take turns in praying to God to lite the candles of the church that speaks the truth. If the Catholic Church believes it has the truth, let God show it. Lets see what church He stands by.

I got this idea from the OT. One of the Prophet had ask the Philistines to built themselves an alter too their god, which was the dragon, and the Prophet built one too Jehovah God. The Prophet said to the Philistines, pray to your god to light the fire on your alter. The Philistines prayed and prayed all day, nothing happen. The Prophet said, maybe your god is asleep, go wake him up.

Harry

Hi Harry: would it be ok if I cut in and took the bet? God lights our candles at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre every Pascha (Easter).
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/

 

[cj]

That is essentially what I was inquiring about

I understood that, hence my answer. But motive is another thing.

I didn't ask about this, and I don't care about your opinion.

More to the point, you care for nothing of Christ that is not mixed with the false and folly doctrine of the apostate Orthodox institution.

For what, exactly...an editorial mistake, or something else?

For not being more careful in my speaking.

Nice, direct answers only lightly seasoned with unsolicited opinion- thanks for that.

What you call unsolicited opinion the bible declares as truth.

But hey, what else should be expected as an issue of false teaching.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Hi Harry: would it be ok if I cut in and took the bet? God lights our candles at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre every Pascha (Easter).
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/

And this is how we know the lie......

"The ceremony,....... which awes the souls........ of Christians"

".... awes the souls....."

This is the OT way.

And the Orthodox (as other religious institutins) are the mimics of the dead OT way.


What an utter disgrace, and what wickedness before God, that men who proclaim to uphold His name would participate in this Devilish fraud being perpetrated among believers.

God has placed Himself within the reborn spirits of men and yet, in the manner of the wickedness of the Jews carried out against God, men turn to outward things for stimulation of their soul.

What could be more pleasant to a man's soul than seeing God Himself?

Seeing a fool running around with a burning candle?

No.

Saints, turn to your regenerated spirit where God Himself dwells. Enter boldly into the present Holy of Holies and see Him who has accomplished all that was necessary to bring us into His very presence.

Scriptures declare that God Himself is in the reborn spirits of men and yet certain men, in the so-called name of Jesus, tell other men to see God in outward acts.

This is the folly of the apostate institutions, as it denies believers of the function of the one aspect of their being that has been fully saved,.... their regenerated spirit.

Reject the lie of Satan which preys upon the souls of men.

Turn to your spirit.

In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

That is essentially what I was inquiring about

I understood that, hence my answer. But motive is another thing.
No need to be coy.

[quote="Orthodox Christian":d4d0d]I didn't ask about this, and I don't care about your opinion.

More to the point, you care for nothing of Christ that is not mixed with the false and folly doctrine of the apostate Orthodox institution.
No, as I said, I don't care about your opinion.

For what, exactly...an editorial mistake, or something else?

For not being more careful in my speaking.
This is the least of your errors.

Nice, direct answers only lightly seasoned with unsolicited opinion- thanks for that.

What you call unsolicited opinion the bible declares as truth.
Speaking from the chair, are we?

But hey, what else should be expected as an issue of false teaching.
I don't even know what you were trying to say there, but it contains one of your slogans, so I'm sure you're happy with it.


In love,
cj[/quote:d4d0d]

 

[PHIL121]

The Church was actually built on THREE rocks. Peter, James and John; the three disciples who witnessed the Transfiguration, where the Holy Spirit commanded them to "Follow Him(Jesus)".

Peter just gets all the credit :

 

[thessalonian]

The Church was actually built on THREE rocks. Peter, James and John; the three disciples who witnessed the Transfiguration, where the Holy Spirit commanded them to "Follow Him(Jesus)".

Peter just gets all the credit :

I tell ya, non-Catholics will come up with all the arguements in the world. Which one is true? Hey, it doesn't matter as long as they are all sincere.

I have heard from Protestants:

Peter is the rock and had the keys but he did not pass it on.
Peter is the rock and had the keys but he passed them on to everybody.
Peter is the rock and had the keys but he passed them on to Jesus.
Peter is not the rock at all and didn't get the keys.
The twelve apostles are all the rock.
We are all the Rock.
Peter's faith is the rock.
Jesus is the rock so Peter can't be.
Now we have there are three rocks.

I am sure I have heard others over the years.

Seems like when you don't want to stay with the plain words of scripture "thou are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church" you can come up with some way to distort their meaning.

 

[cj]

No, as I said, I don't care about your opinion.

That's the smoke, not the true heart intent.

This is the least of your errors.

Darkness begats more darkness OC, what you call error is simply the opposite of your darkened understanding.

Speaking from the chair, are we?

More importantly, not speaking from a foundation of false folly doctrine.

I don't even know what you were trying to say there, but it contains one of your slogans, so I'm sure you're happy with it.

My joy is in the Lord, and not as it seems with you, in the holding to and worshipping of another head.

In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

No, as I said, I don't care about your opinion.

That's the smoke, not the true heart intent.
No, I really don't care about your opinion anymore than I am interested in brushing the teeth of a cobra.
[quote="Orthodox Christian":c0e49]This is the least of your errors.

Darkness begats more darkness OC, what you call error is simply the opposite of your darkened understanding.
I see you are filling your slogan checklist today> Darkness, check, apostate, check, institution, check. What I call error is opposed to my understanding of truth, yes (keen sense of obvious).

Speaking from the chair, are we?

More importantly, not speaking from a foundation of false folly doctrine.
Sidestepping, yet not denying. Thank you for the tacit admission.

I don't even know what you were trying to say there, but it contains one of your slogans, so I'm sure you're happy with it.

My joy is in the Lord, and not as it seems with you, in the holding to and worshipping of another head.
More empty chatter. Rather than explain your meandering comment, you take another opportunity to insinuate I worship Satan.

In spite,
cj

[/quote:c0e49]
At least that's the way I see it.

 

[cj]

More empty chatter. Rather than explain your meandering comment, you take another opportunity to insinuate I worship Satan

Tell me OC, why do you think that you don't?

In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

More empty chatter. Rather than explain your meandering comment, you take another opportunity to insinuate I worship Satan

Tell me OC, why do you think that you don't?

In love,
cj

Look, it's the Gordian Knot of theological questions. It is very similar to this one:
"Tell me, OC, when did you stop beating your wife?"

Shall I reply in kind? Shall I loudly proclaim my innocense and fealty to Jesus Christ?

Nah. I worship God as He has revealed Himself:

• to the fathers and mothers of the tribes of Israel
  in holy scripture
  to the fathers and mothers of the Church
  and to me

Call Him what you wish.

 

[cj]

Look, it's the Gordian Knot of theological questions. It is very similar to this one:
"Tell me, OC, when did you stop beating your wife?"

Shall I reply in kind? Shall I loudly proclaim my innocense and fealty to Jesus Christ?

Nah. I worship God as He has revealed Himself:

• to the fathers and mothers of the tribes of Israel
  in holy scripture
  to the fathers and mothers of the Church
  and to me

Call Him what you wish.

My thought is you just can't honestly answer the question.

At least your consistent.

In love,
cj

 

[cj]

More empty chatter. Rather than explain your meandering comment, you take another opportunity to insinuate I worship Satan

Tell me OC, why do you think that you don't?

In love,
cj

All saints......... the following is the simple, scriptural, honest answer to the question I asked OC above.

"Because I believe that I worship in my regenerated spirit, and thus worship in truthfulness."



For scripture says......

John 4 : 24, "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truthfulness."



Instead, the religious one gives us this religious answer.....

"Nah. I worship God as He has revealed Himself:

To the Fathers and mothers of the tribes of Israel in holy scriptures; to the fathers and mothers of the Church and to me."


The fact is, OC answer is just unscriptural. And understandably so, because of his religiousity.


Christ in our regenerated spirit is the full revelation of God, and not the way God might have revealed Himself to other believers in the past.

To worship the way God has revealed Himself in the past is to worship the experience of others and not God Himself. It is to place the experience of others on the pedestal, it is to build an altar to them.


Do you want to know why I worship God OC?

I can't help myself, it just rises up in me as I gaze upon His beauty and wonderfulness, as I gaze upon His person.

And though this might seem the same as what you do, as you could say you see God in the experiences of others, it isn't the same, as God and a NT believer are just one in spirit in His Spirit.

Revelation is not reality.

The OT believer had the revelation, the NT believer has the reality.

In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Look, it's the Gordian Knot of theological questions. It is very similar to this one:
"Tell me, OC, when did you stop beating your wife?"

Shall I reply in kind? Shall I loudly proclaim my innocense and fealty to Jesus Christ?

Nah. I worship God as He has revealed Himself:

• to the fathers and mothers of the tribes of Israel
  in holy scripture
  to the fathers and mothers of the Church
  and to me

Call Him what you wish.

My thought is you just can't honestly answer the question.

I don't work to solve knots tied by Turks and other deceivers, I simply slash through the tangled and hidden layers.

 

[PHIL121]

The Church was actually built on THREE rocks. Peter, James and John; the three disciples who witnessed the Transfiguration, where the Holy Spirit commanded them to "Follow Him(Jesus)".

Peter just gets all the credit :

I tell ya, non-Catholics will come up with all the arguements in the world. Which one is true?

Oh yeah, like Catholics have ALL the answers! :

Their philosophy seems to be just look up up what guy wrote back in 468 AD at the Council of Hassenfrassen and take that without question.

 

[thessalonian]

The Church was actually built on THREE rocks. Peter, James and John; the three disciples who witnessed the Transfiguration, where the Holy Spirit commanded them to "Follow Him(Jesus)".

Peter just gets all the credit :

I tell ya, non-Catholics will come up with all the arguements in the world. Which one is true?

Oh yeah, like Catholics have ALL the answers! :

Their philosophy seems to be just look up up what guy wrote back in 468 AD at the Council of Hassenfrassen and take that without question.

The answers are important for God says "those who worship me MUST worship in sprit and in truth". He also tells us "you shall KNOW the truth and the truth shall set you free". Now if we have everybody guessing at what the truth is and coming up with different interprutations that contradict what good is that? It may let you feel proud (grace to the humble, law to the proud) that you don't follow the Council of Hassenfrassen but how do you know that council was wrong when you don't even know if your interprutation that says their is three rocks is right? Is it unimportant. Well Jesus said he was going to build his Church on the rock so it would seem that actually who the rock is would be important in identifying his Church. You better have it right.

 

[thessalonian]

The Church was actually built on THREE rocks. Peter, James and John; the three disciples who witnessed the Transfiguration, where the Holy Spirit commanded them to "Follow Him(Jesus)".

Peter just gets all the credit :

I tell ya, non-Catholics will come up with all the arguements in the world. Which one is true?

Oh yeah, like Catholics have ALL the answers! :

Their philosophy seems to be just look up up what guy wrote back in 468 AD at the Council of Hassenfrassen and take that without question.

The answers are important for God says "those who worship me MUST worship in sprit and in truth". He also tells us "you shall KNOW the truth and the truth shall set you free". Now if we have everybody guessing at what the truth is and coming up with different interprutations that contradict what good is that? It may let you feel proud (grace to the humble, law to the proud) that you don't follow the Council of Hassenfrassen but how do you know that council was wrong when you don't even know if your interprutation that says their is three rocks is right? Is it unimportant. Well Jesus said he was going to build his Church on the rock so it would seem that actually who the rock is would be important in identifying his Church. You better have it right. Further if God says the faith was deposited "once for all" and that the "gates of hell shall not prevail", then around the time of the Council of Hassenfrassen you better be able to find the truth in somebody's theology or the gates have prevailed for a time and some of the saving truth is not available for the masses.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

More empty chatter. Rather than explain your meandering comment, you take another opportunity to insinuate I worship Satan

Tell me OC, why do you think that you don't?

In love,
cj

All saints......... the following is the simple, scriptural, honest answer to the question I asked OC above.

"Because I believe that I worship in my regenerated spirit, and thus worship in truthfulness."

I don't use your brand of Christianese.

For scripture says......

John 4 : 24, "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truthfulness."



Instead, the religious one gives us this religious answer.....

"Nah. I worship God as He has revealed Himself:

To the Fathers and mothers of the tribes of Israel

in holy scriptures; to the fathers and mothers of the Church

and to me."


The fact is, OC answer is just unscriptural. And understandably so, because of his religiousity.

I edited your predictable distortion of my post so that there are four conditions, not two.
a>To the Fathers and mothers of the tribes of Israel
b>in holy scriptures
c>to the fathers and mothers of the Church
d>to me

The Fundamental tenet of Christian faith is that God has revealed Himself to us. This is found explicitly stated in Hebrews Chapter 1, verses 1 and 2. This revelation is found in the Hebrew scriptures, which record encounters that holy men and women of old had with the Living God. The Christian faith is rooted in those revelations, as Christ stated "Salvation is of/from the Jews." God left a very clear record of these encounters, such that we know Avram like a Father, and Sarai like a mother. Likewise heroes such as Deborah, Ruth, Rahab, David, Isaac, Moses, etc, etc.

Likewise, Jesus Christ came to earth and revealed Himself in fulness to us. This is recorded in scripture, and in the detail we see that He revealed Himself to certain chosen people, both before and after His death and resurrection. After His ascension, the Apostles, including the ones made so after the ascension, such as Paul, James, Timothy, Titus, Apollos, Prisca and Aquilla, and others left for us revelation of the Character of God and of the Christian in the new testament scriptures we have recived. Likewise, the lives of New Testament saints since that time reveal to us how to live out such faith. Paul said "though you have ten thousand tutors, you have not many fathers, for I became your father in the faith."

It is not only within my own revelation that I understand and worship God, but within the framework of the holy scriptures.

This statement

Because I believe that I worship in my regenerated spirit, and thus worship in truthfulness

could be made quite readily by those who believe that Christ is the angel Michael, or that Ham's sin justifies slavery. CJ may think that he has said something spiritual, but from where I sit, he spoke jargon.

Christ in our regenerated spirit is the full revelation of God, and not the way God might have revealed Himself to other believers in the past.

To worship the way God has revealed Himself in the past is to worship the experience of others and not God Himself. It is to place the experience of others on the pedestal, it is to build an altar to them.

These are the words of someone who apparently does not see God as David did, or as Paul did. While our own personal relationship is imperative, unique, and real, if it contradicts the holy scriptures, it is not of God.

According to this silliness of CJs, the psalms are "altars" to the sons of Korah and David, and Exodus is an altar to Moses.

Do you want to know why I worship God OC?

No, I don't. As they often said in the old westerns "White man speaks with forked tongue."