The Rock that Jesus Builds his Church is not Peter

[cj]

Shall I take you by the hand and sound out the vowels, CJ? What do you think 'knowing' is?

Lets try this for an answer......

Proverbs 1 : 7, "The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge;"

If one truly knows, one does. To the degree that they do not do, they do not know.

Is that so, I wonder then, do you not know Jesus in your sinning. As one who claims to be saved, born again of the Spirit and filled with His divine life, do you suddenly become unaware of this when you fall into sin?

Doing is not an issue of knowing it is an issue of being.

Again, go read Paul's speaking to the Roman's about the differing laws at work in him, and in all of us.

Not only is Satan the Deceiver, he is also deceived.

Granted you might be well acquainted with God's adversary, but the scriptures are very clear about Satan's knowledge regarding who God is, or do you think God is a fool for instructing His adversary concerning what he could and could not do with Job.

"And Jehovah said to Satan, Here is all that he has, in your hand; only.... do not.... stretch forth your hand against him. And Satan went forth from Jehovah's presence.

Fact is, Satan is very knowledgeable about God.

Rebellion is simply resistance to power.

Sure is, but being blind to this power would lead one to simply conduct himself in a manner that declared that this power did not exist.

In other words, Satan would not conduct himself in a manner that exposed him as believing he had an adversary.

Rebellion is found in the brute beast, as you prove day in and day out.

If what I do menas my being called a brute beast by you, a worshipper of an institution that is against God, then so be it. There is no lose to me in your name calling. Only to you when the Lord judges every loose word spoken by men.

God's truth and grace shine in every corner of the universe, right into the eyes of Satan and his kin. They love the darkness, and refuse to come to the light, to know the truth.

Know the truth experiencially perhaps. And this will continue even after they have bowed their knees and confessed Him as Lord. In hell.

But perhaps you also think that as Satan abides eternally in hell he will still not "know" the truth, seeing that he is not experiencing the truth.

OC, is darkness true? And if it is, is being in darkness being in truth.

How remedial must this become?

As remedial as necessary in order that the Lord lift you out of the darkness you have chosen to abide in.

More empty, egotistical pratter from a smoldering wick. Crank up the Light, it might hurt your unused eyes for a while, but even the subterranean can grow accustomed to Son light.

"grow accustomed"........ but not really appreciate. This is your way, for you take for granted the Lord.



Your words OC,...... your words prove your darkened mind; an issue of the dark doctrine you worship and hold to.


In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

John 8:31-32
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

According to Jesus Christ:
Knowing is a direct consequence of abiding and obeying. Which of these does Satan practice?

1 John 2:3-4
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

He who says they know, but do not obey, do not know at all, but are liars indeed.


So, gazing at my right foot about now, it's not in my mouth. Check your neck.

 

[Orthodoxy]

Knowledge is necessary for faith, but there is more to believing than knowing. The devil “knows†far more than any Christian “knows.â€Â

Unknown Source

Knowing requires action. Satan's action was rebellion against known authority of God.

just a thought

Orthodoxy

Wow Orthodoxy, I'm impressed.

Pity your post did not come before OC put his foot in his mouth again though.

In love,
cj

Beware of your personal attacks against my brother lest you be reported. He is doing fine without me. My post was directed at you and the thread.

Orthodoxy

 

[cj]

How wonderful it is that we have entered into a realm of discussion that only searches the scriptures, not including man-made doctrines.

Well done.

John 8:31-32
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

According to Jesus Christ:
Knowing is a direct consequence of abiding and obeying. Which of these does Satan practice?

"If you....."

Scripture is clear, Jesus was speaking to men, not creatures in general.

1 John 2:3-4
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

He who says they know, but do not obey, do not know at all, but are liars indeed.

Again, John is speaking directly to men, even more, saved men, those who have been filled with the Spirit.

So, gazing at my right foot about now, it's not in my mouth. Check your neck.

Poor OC,........ your own words continue to sink you.

Does Satan not "obey" God?


You don't have a clue,... do you.


In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

How wonderful it is that we have entered into a realm of discussion that only searches the scriptures, not including man-made doctrines.

Well done.

I wish I could say the same for you, but I cannot. You have added to the scripture your own carnal understanding, making them of no effect. We shall see this below.

John 8:31-32
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

According to Jesus Christ:
Knowing is a direct consequence of abiding and obeying. Which of these does Satan practice?

"If you....."

Scripture is clear, Jesus was speaking to men, not creatures in general.

Jesus was speaking to "those Jews who believed Him." Are we then to exclude Gentiles from this teaching?
Of course not.

Jesus is teaching a principle here that nature itself testifies:
Obedience comes before knowledge. The child is taught to walk in what is right before he or she can reason and 'know' why.
Or as it is written
Raise up a child in the fear and admonition of the Lord and he(she) will not depart from it. With obedience comes the knowing of truth.

Just as when I say to my son 'take the garbage out' and I see him later, watching TV, garbage still in the middle of the entryway. 'I thought I told you to tak out the garbage,' I say. 'I heard you,' he says.
But did he hear me? No, he detected sounds, but he did not hear me.
"Though having eyes to see, they do not see; though having ears to hear, they hear not." This was said to those who 'heard' and 'saw.' Just like those whom you claim 'know,' these did not in fact know, see, or hear

1 John 2:3-4
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

He who says they know, but do not obey, do not know at all, but are liars indeed.

Again, John is speaking directly to men, even more, saved men, those who have been filled with the Spirit.

Yet the principle is true. They who say that they know Him, yet do not keep His commandments, are not 'saved' men"filled with the Spirit."

By this is it demonstrated that a man knows the truth: That he knows and obeys He who is Truth.

So, gazing at my right foot about now, it's not in my mouth. Check your neck.

Poor OC,........ your own words continue to sink you.

Does Satan not "obey" God?

No, he does not. He is compelled to do the bidding of God. If you think obedience is synonymous to compliance, you are a fool. There is a great difference between the bond servant who truly knows the Lord, and has set the awl to their ear, and the slave who neither knows nor truly serves the Master.

You don't have a clue,... do you.


In love,
cj

I have plenty of clues, and I'm passing 'em out like business cards on this thread.

 

[cj]

I wish I could say the same for you, but I cannot

It matters not as your thoughts are of a corrupt source.

You have added to the scripture your own carnal understanding, making them of no effect. We shall see this below.

I've done no such thing,..... as we shal see for sure.

Jesus was speaking to "those Jews who believed Him." Are we then to exclude Gentiles from this teaching?
Of course not.

Note I said men, with no reference to Jews in particular.

The scriptures are a witness to all men.

This is one more misrepresentation of my speaking, that of course leads to more below.

You have a hard time being honest don't you OC.

Jesus is teaching a principle here that nature itself testifies:
Obedience comes before knowledge. The child is taught to walk in what is right before he or she can reason and 'know' why.
Or as it is written
Raise up a child in the fear and admonition of the Lord and he(she) will not depart from it. With obedience comes the knowing of truth.

And yet you with all your "knowledge" you still sin.

Why? Don't you know better?

Sure you do, just as Paul knew better and yet ended up doing something else.

As much as you attempt to raise up your child in fear and admonition of the Lord, all you do is useless unless the Lord Himself keeps the child, and for that matter, the parent.

Knowing the truth does not come from being obedient, for scripture says that even the Lord learnt obedience through suffering. Therefore, you would have to say that He only came to know truth after His suffering through which He learnt obedience.

But we know this is not true, as the Lord Himself is truth.

Really OC, you are a typical religionists, determined to work your way to God through self-effort.

Just as when I say to my son 'take the garbage out' and I see him later, watching TV, garbage still in the middle of the entryway. 'I thought I told you to tak out the garbage,' I say. 'I heard you,' he says.
But did he hear me? No, he detected sounds, but he did not hear me.
"Though having eyes to see, they do not see; though having ears to hear, they hear not." This was said to those who 'heard' and 'saw.' Just like those whom you claim 'know,' these did not in fact know, see, or hear

There is no doubt that one can know what to do and chose to not do it, but what you are touching on is the matter of experience. The matter of possessing the reality.

Tell me, is knowing something the same as being constituted with it?

The Jews, when they flee from the terrible persecution and come to see the One they pierced, and know Him, will they know Him in the same way a born-again believer knows Him?

No, they wont. You know that as well as I do. Their experience of the Lord will not be the same as our experience of the Lord,...... and yet, they will know Him.

Yet the principle is true. They who say that they know Him, yet do not keep His commandments, are not 'saved' men"filled with the Spirit."

This is not true.

Again, I do not need to ask you if you sin for I know all do.

But I believe that regardless, you are saved and filled with the Spirit. Just as scripture tells us.

By this is it demonstrated that a man knows the truth: That he knows and obeys He who is Truth.

No, he does not. He is compelled to do the bidding of God. If you think obedience is synonymous to compliance, you are a fool. There is a great difference between the bond servant who truly knows the Lord, and has set the awl to their ear, and the slave who neither knows nor truly serves the Master.

I most certainly am a fool, but not in the manner you suggest.

Satan absolutely obeys God, willingly or unwillingly.

And you, are you also not compelled to obey by the very nature of the new life that has been placed in you? Or do you think that your obedience is out of your own effort, your own source?

And you suggest that I am a fool?

The real fool is the one who fools himself into believing there is hope in self-effort.

Do you read the scriptures OC?

Of course you do.

Then why the ignorance? Why do you write and suggest that Satan is compelled but you are not, when these scriptures tell us that we are compelled.

Who works the willing in you?

Perhaps you think its you huh?

I have plenty of clues, and I'm passing 'em out like business cards on this thread.

Yeh, sure......... like business cards; in the manner of the world.

I agree.

Your words OC, they reveal the corruption.


In love,
cj

 

[SpiritualSon]

John 8:31-32
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

According to Jesus Christ:
Knowing is a direct consequence of abiding and obeying. Which of these does Satan practice?


[quote:2e30f]1 John 2:3-4
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

He who says they know, but do not obey, do not know at all, but are liars indeed.

So, gazing at my right foot about now, it's not in my mouth. Check your neck.[/quote:2e30f]

Revelation 3:9-10. "And I will give from the synagogue of Satan." This signifies those who are in falsities as to doctrine. "Who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie." This signifies those who say the church is with them, and yet it is not. "Behold I will make them to come and adore at thy feet." This signifies that many who are in falsities as to doctrine, and not evil at the sametime, will receive the truths of the New Church. "And to know that I have loved thee." This signifies that they shall see that they are loved and received into heaven by the Lord.

Verse 10. "Because thou hast kept the Word of My endurance" This signifies because they who have fought against evil, as sins. "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." This signifies that they will be protected and preserved in the day of the Last Judgment.

These two verses are meant for those who believe in a false doctrine of their church, but are not in evil. Charity loves truth, and truth loves charity. Only evil leads a man away from truth. This was meant for the next life, which means after death many good Catholics will be converted, and will know the real truth.

This is taken from Swedenborg's writings. Four men were seen, dressed in white robes and mitres. One of them had been an Archbishop in the world and the other three had been Bishops; all had now become angels. This means they were good, and loved the Lord and the neighbor more than self. They were more interested in the salvation of others, than becoming Saints. There are good Archbishops and Bishops in heaven, and they keep their office in heaven.

Harry