The Roots of Futurism & Preterism

[JM]

What are the roots of futurism & preterism? When I google both I find the history of its expression within the order of the Jesuits, the facts seem true, are they?

Futurism: Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) is listed as the first to teach the first few chapters of the Revelations delt with pagan Rome, and the rest is future (3 1/2 literal years) just before the the second coming. Cardinal Robert Bellarmine wrote two works similar in nature in 1581 and 1593. Manuel De Lacunza (1731–1801) was also a Jesuit who wrote in 1791 about what is now know as futurism. The work can be found here: http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/FichaAu ... 9&portal=3 Edward Irving (1792-1834) picked up one of the reprints and made a translation of it. The famous Margaret MacDonald 1830 was a member of the Irvinites and had a vision of what latter became the basis for the Rapture. (Personally, from what I know of John N. Darby's life and good Christian living, I accept Darby's history on this matter. He never was a lier and he claimed using a literal reading of the Bible he came to understand the Rapture.) This is what is said to be the foundation of Dispensationalism.

Preterism: Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613) was Jesuit as well. He believed that Revelation chpt. 1-11 was the rejection of the Jews and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. Chpt. 12 - 19 was the downfall of Pagan Rome, etc.

hummm......

 

[JM]

Did you notice how both the futurist and the preterist views could not acknowledge the rise of antichrist in their time? The futurist tells us the antichrist is coming and the preterist tells us the antichrist has come.

Something to think about.

 

[CrazyTech]

It's my personal view that these two schools of thought came about to deceive. They get you looking to the future (almost entirely) or keep you looking at the past. Both trains of thought can be very dangerous IMHO. For someone who reads Revelation and other books of the Bible, one must look hard at the descriptions of the events and they'll see that we're right in the middle of what was prophesized.

Now I read a book which was much harsher. It suggested that these two schools of thought were brought about soley by the Jesuits/Catholics and that ultimately the antichrist will come from the Catholic Church. There may be some truth to that but I don't necessarily mean all Catholics are evil or some silly wide-sweeping statement such as that.

However, I have approached the Scriptures with an open mind and after reading several times I just cannot see either school of thought as a plausible explanation.

 

[preterist]

Futurism: Francisco Ribera (1537-1591

Preterism: Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613)

So there was no eschatology before 1537?

For someone who reads Revelation and other books of the Bible, one must look hard at the descriptions of the events and they'll see that we're right in the middle of what was prophesized.

Then that puts you in the futurist camp.

Care to explain what events that are now happening fulfill prophecies?

 

[CrazyTech]

Then that puts you in the futurist camp.

Incorrect - you honestly couldn't be much farther from the truth in my particular case.

I do not believe in the rapture for one which is a common theory that arises from the futurist school of thought.

Number two, the futurist theory takes the events of Revelation 5 and onward and completely places them as events that will happen in the future. This cannot be farther from the truth. We're in the midst of the persecutions of Christians and have been for centuries. There are no gaps, prophecy has unfolded and will continue to do so.

 

[Solo]

Then that puts you in the futurist camp.

Incorrect - you honestly couldn't be much farther from the truth in my particular case.

I do not believe in the rapture for one which is a common theory that arises from the futurist school of thought.

Number two, the futurist theory takes the events of Revelation 5 and onward and completely places them as events that will happen in the future. This cannot be farther from the truth. We're in the midst of the persecutions of Christians and have been for centuries. There are no gaps, prophecy has unfolded and will continue to do so.

When was the first seal opened? Who is riding the white horse?
When was the second seal opened? Who is riding the red horse?

 

[CrazyTech]

Well, first off I believe we stand now at the fifth seal/ 5th trump:

Revelation 6:9

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

9:3 (5th trump)

And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Read on for the description and name given.

But, getting back to the horses, these all signify various events (you could call them scourges or plagues if you so desire) that have happened to humanity as a whole.

The white horse shouldn't be confused with the horse that later comes in 19:11. This is the desire to conquer and for power on the earth. The red horse signifies war and bloodlust. The black horse then signifies famine.

From there, 8:11 describes, IMHO, the powers and nations that will suport the idea of the beast - that is to go against God. For as 1 John 2:18 tells us:

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

This is, of course, an oversimplification of things as far as saying this and that but I tried to keep it concise for the sake of everyone.

 

[Solo]

Well, first off I believe we stand now at the fifth seal/ 5th trump:

Revelation 6:9

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

9:3 (5th trump)
[quote:956a2]
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Read on for the description and name given.

But, getting back to the horses, these all signify various events (you could call them scourges or plagues if you so desire) that have happened to humanity as a whole.

The white horse shouldn't be confused with the horse that later comes in 19:11. This is the desire to conquer and for power on the earth. The red horse signifies war and bloodlust. The black horse then signifies famine.

From there, 8:11 describes, IMHO, the powers and nations that will suport the idea of the beast - that is to go against God. For as 1 John 2:18 tells us:

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

This is, of course, an oversimplification of things as far as saying this and that but I tried to keep it concise for the sake of everyone.[/quote:956a2]
When was the first seal opened? Roman Catholicism
When was the second seal opened? Communism
When was the third seal opened? New World Order
When was the fouth seal opened? The Son of Perdition revealed
When was the fifth seal opened? The Great Tribulation
When was the sixth seal opened? Jesus' return and the wrath of God poured out.
When was the seventh seal opened? New Jerusalem becomes the place of Jesus' 1000 year reign.