Growth The Sabbath and which day is it on?

[Sandy Zalecki]

But according to that is called out to do the Sabbath on the 7th.day/Jewish is on Friday sunset until Saturday with the civil calendar, Exodus 20:8, Lk. 4:16/as his custom was and also in Acts 17:2 http://triumphpro.com/newsflash_006.htm

I knew someone would try to go all theological on me and try to prove me wrong. The world Sabbath in the ancient Hebrew language meant, "to return to the covenant, or to return to the cross." Under the law that was on the 7th day or Saturday. But in Christ I am free. I can "return to the cross" any time I need to for rest, not just on Saturday. Sometime I need to return to the cross on Wednesday because I am exhausted. I can rest in Christ whenever I need to.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

[quote="Obadiah, post: 928411, member: 3311"My question would be are Christians required to observe the sabbath as it was in the Old Testament?

What did Jesus say about the Sabbath?

And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”(Mark 2:27-28 ESV)
​

Most people tend to emphasize verse 28, which says that "the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath". Many seem to think that this somehow abolishes the Sabbath, but the truth is something entirely different. Far from abolishing it, these verses show how highly Jesus thought of the Sabbath. People seem to over look one word in verse 28 - "even". He is lord of everything, even, the Sabbath. That wording shows a very high regard for the Sabbath. But what I want to point out is in verse 27. Jesus starts by saying "The Sabbath was made". If it was made, then who made it? The very next verse says that Jesus is lord of the Sabbath, so it's logical to conclude that Jesus made it. If not, then the Father made it and made Jesus lord over it. Either way, since Jesus is God, then we can say that God made the Sabbath.

Jesus goes on to say that the Sabbath was "made for man". So God made the Sabbath for man. It's a gift He has given us. Why do we ask whether we are required to receive this gift? Have you ever heard anyone ask "Are we required to be healed?" or "Are we required to be blessed financially?" It's hard to answer questions like that, because the questions themselves don't make sense. The Sabbath isn't a burden God has placed on us, but a wonderful gift that He has given us. It's not a requirement, but a delight.

The TOG​

[/quote]
Great explanation.:yes

 

[tim-from-pa]

Some people think that a certain day is more important than other days, while others think that all days are the same. We each should firmly make up our own minds. Those who think highly of a certain day do so in honor of the Lord; Romans 14:5-6a NIV

Just for a heads up, isn't that in the chapter context of eating meats offered to idols? The verse sounds good standing alone, but certain believers were not comfortable eating meat certain days if in the market they were possibly from the same source offered to idols. So on the days they were offered, they stayed away from eating the meat. Other believers didn't care what day it was.

This verse is also misquoted with the one about not judging one regarding a Sabbath, New Moon or feast. Most people think that means that one does not have to keep them. However, if that were the case, then why does Paul mention that unless they were observing them? They were not to be judged because they already kept them, and in addition regarding the manner they keep them. I often bring up the topic of feasts on forums like this, and (Christian) people retort that I don't have to keep them and I am being 'legalistic'. I then take this verse to comfort where I am to let no one judge me regarding a Sabbath, a new moon, or feast (I constantly keep track of the new moon in Israel when it's proclaimed).

And yet another is Paul's statement, "You observe days and months and seasons and years"...

The Sabbath and feasts were never mentioned here (as was the previous example), and nobody was even keeping the Sabbatical or Jubilee years back then, so he was not referencing the feasts and Sabbaths of the Lord, but the translation are civil days and special days from other backgrounds, as the Galatians were from a Gentile background. Today's equivalent might be Christmas or some other secular holiday when one is converted from that and goes back again is exactly what the Galatians were starting to do again. So for those who rail me over the feasts, I then can quote back to those keeping the likes of Christmas, Lent and others based on other gods: You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

 

[Obadiah]

...Jesus goes on to say that the Sabbath was "made for man". So God made the Sabbath for man. It's a gift He has given us. Why do we ask whether we are required to receive this gift? Have you ever heard anyone ask "Are we required to be healed?" or "Are we required to be blessed financially?" It's hard to answer questions like that, because the questions themselves don't make sense. The Sabbath isn't a burden God has placed on us, but a wonderful gift that He has given us. It's not a requirement, but a delight.

The TOG​

I probably didn't word my question well. Rather than asking if we are required to observe it at all, I was asking more if some people here believe we are required to observe it as it was in the Old Testament? I was referring not only to what day and what time it starts and stops, but also to all of the rules and regulations about all the things you can't do or have to do, and the punishments which today seem pretty draconian for violating these rules. For example Exodus 31:14 (NKJV) states "You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people." So when you say we are to keep the sabbath the way it was in the Old Testament, one (just one) of the things we have to do is start executing people who have a job (or do any kind of work) on Saturdays!

Out of all the Christians I've ever known personally, I've only known one who believes this, a Messianic Jewish Rabi, and I always thought he was being a bit fanatical and legalistic about it. So rather than asking if we should observe some kind of sabbath at some time during the week, I was asking if some people here are also saying (as does my Messianic Rabbi friend) that we are required to do it in this legalistic way it was done in the Old Testament?

To me this doesn't seem the way we must do things. The purpose of the sabbath was to make sure we had a time to rest and worship God. But if we are allowed to change these things from the Old Testament (Exodus 31:14 as an example), on who's authority are we prohibited from having sabbath on a different day? Especially since the early church didn't see a problem with that either?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

I don't believe sabbath means 'return to the cross' ever, in any place in Scripture. (nor in any Jewish writings or meanings I've ever heard of or heard referenced. If some group used that phrase, I would test it thoroughly, as it sounds out of order with the rest of Hebrew life and Scripture and knowledge that I've learned or read or saw and also
out of order with Yhwh and Yeshua personally.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

also Jesus said the Word of God will last past time itself. this includes the ten commandments - they will not be done away with, and never were done away with by the faithful ekklesia immersed in Yeshua.

 

[Michael74]

So on the days they were offered, they stayed away from eating the meat

Doesn't seem to track with:

Those who think highly of a certain day do so in honor of the Lord; Romans 14:6a GNT

The wording suggests Paul has moved on, and is now talking about days that some local Christians esteem "in honor of the Lord".

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

they had other holidays, or days they celibrated, that they had before being immersed in Yeshua.
"in honor of the Lord" Jesus, is not just a key, i think, but of paramount importance. because then they may keep OR give up keeping a day "in honor of the Lord Jesus", as God teaches them. i.e. a day might be kept for 10 , 20, or 50 years, then given up as God directs.
this is entirely different though re the commandments, which always are kept by those who honor the Lord Jesus. always.

 

[Michael74]

...they had other holidays

Certainly, but Paul specifically mentions:

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Colossians 2:16-17 NIV

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

yes. what is the connection of the verse to what I said ?

 

[Michael74]

...verse...about a Sabbath, New Moon or feast..However, if that were the case, then why does Paul mention that unless they were observing them?

I don't follow your train of logic here. The text seems to imply that Paul mentioned them because some followed them, and some didn't. Why explain something to people that there was no controversy over?

 

[Michael74]

yes. what is the connection of the verse to what I said ?

You said they had other holidays. Paul specifically mentions New Moons and Sabbaths to show what holidays he is talking about.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

yes. thank you. no worries.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I don't follow your train of logic here. The text seems to imply that Paul mentioned them because some followed them, and some didn't. Why explain something to people that there was no controversy over?

It's not a "train of logic". My train of logic does not matter. It's dividing the word rightly by understanding the context. It's dangerous to assume because one's logic is right that it's OK to live by that interpretation.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

It's not a "train of logic". My train of logic does not matter. It's dividing the word rightly by understanding the context. It's dangerous to assume because one's logic is right that it's OK to live by that interpretation.

EXACTLY!
(substitute for 'the context' > "the mind of Yeshua" ... which hopefully may be the same here, but is not everywhere.)

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

The Sabbath and which day is it on?
http://www.cbcg.org/true_sabbath.htm

honestly, can you believe how far we gentiles (and I think I'm Jewish both by birth and by faith, btw)
have strayed far from God's Word (the Bible). !?!?!?

does most people here realize, that from before birth, through 100 years old, the Jews , immersed in Yeshua already, and not,
even 3 years old infants raised in the way they should go (according to God and God's Word),
know the Sabbath and keep it (when raised in line with Scripture, and also with most God-honoring Jewish communities)
better than any gentile keeping church in america !!!!

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

shame on us ! (americans)

 

[tim-from-pa]

honestly, can you believe how far we gentiles (and I think I'm Jewish both by birth and by faith, btw)
have strayed far from God's Word (the Bible). !?!?!?

does most people here realize, that from before birth, through 100 years old, the Jews , immersed in Yeshua already, and not,
even 3 years old infants raised in the way they should go (according to God and God's Word),
know the Sabbath and keep it (when raised in line with Scripture, and also with most God-honoring Jewish communities)
better than any gentile keeping church in america !!!!

I call it the "Gentilization" of the calendar. It never ceases to amaze me that I am so-called "legalistic" just because I'm aware of the feasts, but the same think it's OK to celebrate secular holidays and are just as much, if not more, bound to them. Oh, but they say, I have to pick a day to celebrate Christ's birth. So what if it's December 25th is as good as any day? (rationalization). They then say they can celebrate it in November or July or (as the Scripture would say) "every man did what was right in his sight" just so that it appears they are not bound to a date. Somehow that scripture was missed.

I'd have far more respect if the verse where some men esteem all days alike was practised and each day were truly treated the same. If that were the case, we'd see Christian worship services some on Tuesdays, some on Fridays, some on Mondays. But that's not what I am seeing. I see virtually all of them on a Sunday. So.... don't tell me the day does not matter. That's not what I see in practice. So again.... if we are to keep days at all, how about we stay to the scripture? If we have to keep any, that would make the most sense. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to dictate liturgy or certain practices on those days. Set them aside, take a break with your Creator, and understand what they mean. Good days (like today) to do study and bible communicating spending time with Yahweh.

 

[JLB]

I probably didn't word my question well. Rather than asking if we are required to observe it at all, I was asking more if some people here believe we are required to observe it as it was in the Old Testament? I was referring not only to what day and what time it starts and stops, but also to all of the rules and regulations about all the things you can't do or have to do, and the punishments which today seem pretty draconian for violating these rules. For example Exodus 31:14 (NKJV) states "You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people." So when you say we are to keep the sabbath the way it was in the Old Testament, one (just one) of the things we have to do is start executing people who have a job (or do any kind of work) on Saturdays!

Out of all the Christians I've ever known personally, I've only known one who believes this, a Messianic Jewish Rabi, and I always thought he was being a bit fanatical and legalistic about it. So rather than asking if we should observe some kind of sabbath at some time during the week, I was asking if some people here are also saying (as does my Messianic Rabbi friend) that we are required to do it in this legalistic way it was done in the Old Testament?

To me this doesn't seem the way we must do things. The purpose of the sabbath was to make sure we had a time to rest and worship God. But if we are allowed to change these things from the Old Testament (Exodus 31:14 as an example), on who's authority are we prohibited from having sabbath on a different day? Especially since the early church didn't see a problem with that either?

Great point!

The Sabbath was made for man from the Garden.

Man needs to rest a day every week.

Simple.

The Sabbath rest that this rest each week points to is the Millennial rest, whereby we cease from striving against the sin that remains in our physical bodies, as we will have our immortal resurrected bodies that will never die, during that 1000 year period.

That will truly be a rest.


JLB

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

"real 'religion' in the sight of God" is not on sunday.
"they met daily house to house, breaking bread with thanksgiving"

God's people , immersed ekklesia in Yeshua, meet daily whenever they are able to.
meeting once or twice a week is not ekklesia. (as shown all through the N.T.)
(it may be impossible to meet daily for some ekklesia, but they rejoice with great gladness and worship Yhwh EVERY DAY with obedient trusting joyful lives relying on Yhwh in Yeshua for His provision; even for food and clothes and housing day to day).