Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Secret Behind December 25 & Other Events of the Chri

A

Anti-Pagan

Guest
"The Secret Behind December 25 & Other Events of the Christ" is the name of a book written by H. A. Abraham. I will write down this book here to check and view the suggestions of the readers. It includes 4 chapters:
Chapter I: December 25
Chapter II: Other Pagan Concepts and Practices
Chapter III: Establishing the Church
Chapter IV: Purifying Jesus from Paganism
 
Chapter I: DECEMEBER 25[/colo

Pagans B.C.E
The birth of Jesus took place over 20 centuries ago. Before this time, Europe was filled with many pagan religions. As did the East too have it’s various pagan religions within. So the world at this time, before the birth of Christianity, had it’s own idolic spiritual life. The pagans worshipped different types of gods. The moon was made a god; For the sea a god; For the river a god; For the earth a goddess; For the sky a god; for the fire a god; for the water a god; in short, for all elements and emotions there were different gods made. These were times were myths and storytelling were circulating among the different religions and cultures around the world. The same gods and ideas were spread out and shared in all various nations with some editing. Take for example the goddess of Earth. She is shared in all nations but different in her name and some aspects of her personality and attributes. She is known in Rome as Tellus; in Greece as Gaia; in North Europe as Hertha; in Phrygia (old Turkey) as Cybele; in Babylonia as Kishar; in Persia as Zam-Armatay; in India as Prthivi; in China as K'un; in Japan as Toyo-Uke-Bime; in Indonesia as Sri; in Russia and Czech as Mokos. She was mostly associated with fertality.


The Sun God
The Catholic Church of St. Clemente, near the Colosseum in Rome is built upon one of the largest pagan temple of the sun god, Mithra. This Persian god was worshipped thousands of years ago. His cult, Mithraism, spread to Rome. Thus in Rome, more than a hundred inscriptions dedicated to Mithras have been found, in addition to 75 sculpture fragments, and a series of Mithraic temples situated in all parts of the city.
Mithra originally was a Persian god brought to Europe. Mithraists believed that Mithra was born in the midwinter. In other words, 25 December.
The reason of making this festival on 25th of December is that Mithra was the sun god. The pagans celebrate December 25 as the birth of the sun god “because each day after December 25, the day light period got longer.â€Â
In fact, Mithra was not the only pagan god who was born on Dec 25th. It was a common festival in all pagan nations for their own deities and yet all have predated the Christian Christmas. In their book, ‘Religions of the World: The Illustrated Guide to Origins, Beliefs, Traditions & Festivals’ Elizabeth Breuilly, Joanne O’Brien and Martin Palmer have said:
“Many of the traditional customs of Christmas pre-date Christianity. Christmas Day was chosen because it was the ancient feast-day of the Sun, in the depths of winterâ€Â
Thus the 25th of December was the birth day of the Chinese god Chang-ti., the Hindu god Krishna, the Buddhist Savior Buddha, the Chaledean lord Chris, the Phyrigian god Attis, the Anglo-Saxonic god Jao Wapaul, the Scandinavian deity Thor, the Syrian god Adonis and the Greek god Dionysus.
The ancient Pagan Russians also celebrated this day and called it KOLYADA. The ancient pagan Germans called it YULE-FEAST. The Romans called it SATURNALIA, which was the day of the birth of the sun god SOL INVECTUS.
The last two festivals which I mentioned above (Yule-feast and Saturnalia) are the direct roots of Christmas. The Encyclopedia of Man, Myth and Religions noted under “CHRISTMASâ€Â:
“Christmas has its origin in two ancient pagan festivals, the great Yule-feast of the Norsemen and the Roman Saturnalia.â€Â

Late Date
The Christmas of the Christian god, Jesus is a replacement of the Saturnalia of the pagan Roman god, Sol Invectus. This replacement was made in the fourth century by the Roman emperor Constantine. In his book, ‘The Bible as History’ the western historian Werner Keller remarked:

December 25 is referred to in documents as Christmas Day in A.D. 324 for the first time . . . An old Roman festival played a major part in the choice of this particular day. December 25 in ancient Rome was the 'Dies Natali Invictus,' 'the birthday of the unconquered,' the day of the winter solstice and at the same time, in Rome, the last day of the Saturnalia, which had long since degenerated into a week of unbridled carnival . . .

Since the fourth century, the pagan festival became part of the Christian body. The encyclopedia of Man Myth and Religions says:

Naturally it came under heavy censure from the early Church and despite the fact that Jesus Christ and the saints gradually replaced the pagan deities it was long considered completely out of character with the Christian ideal. However, the festival was far too strongly entrenched in popular favour to be abolished, and the Church finally granted the necessary recognition, believing that if Christmas could not be suppressed it should be preserved in honour of the Christian God.
Once given a Christian basis the festival became fully established in Europe with many of its pagan elements undisturbed.
It was only in the 4th century that 25 December was officially decreed to be the birthday of Christ, and it was another 500 years before the term Midwinter Feast was abandoned in favour of the word Christmas. Even then on the Continent the festival continued to show many features inherited from the Saturnalia.
If 25 Dec is not the date of Jesus birthday then what was his true birthday? Worldbook Encyclopedia answers this question by saying:
“The exact date of Christ's birth is not known. The [very] early Christians did not celebrate His birth.â€Â

Pagan Elements
During the Christmas day, Christians decorate and erect trees. This practice originates from the pagans of Germany. It belongs to the Teutonic vegetation worship. The Encyclopedia of Man, Myth and Magic explains how it came into Christianity; it says:

. . . the use of the tree has roots in the old worship of trees by the tribesmen of northern Europe. Certainly the Germans first brought the tree into Christians before other peoples. And they took it to America: German mercenaries, fighting on the British side in the War of Independence, raised Christmas trees in their camps, and German settlers in Pennsylvania also set up their trees, It was a longer time coming to Britain, but its popularity there was ensured when Queen Caroline erected a tree at a royal Christmas celebration in 1821, and when in 1841 Prince Albert provided one for a children’s party at Windsor.

This custom of the tree is forbidden in the Bible:
“Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.†(The Bible, Jeremiah 10:2-5)
During Christmas holiday time, it is popular Christian practice that a bearded, white-haired old man known as Santa Claus. This character is originally the Nordic (German) Pagan god, Woden (Odin). Worldbook Encyclopedia mentioned:
“Some of Santa Claus's characteristics date back many centuries. For example, the belief that Santa enters the house through the chimney developed from an old Norse legend.â€Â
According to the Gospel of Matthew (2:1-11), when Jesus was just born, three wise men came from far to visit him and gifted him gold, frankincense and myrrh. Again, this tradition originated from early pagan traditions. It is the same legend which was assigned to Krishna the Hindu Savior and Socrates the great well-known Greek philosopher. All of them were presented in their birth time gold, frankincense and myrrh. The Persian god Mithra’s birth was visited by three shepherds. In conclusion, we find the roots of Christmas have their bases in pagan festivals.

A Biblical Mistake
How can the actual date of God’s birth be forgotten and omitted? If the early Christians did not know the exact day of his birth, then what about the month of his birth? What about the year? The historian Kersey Graves said in his book, ‘The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Or Christianity before Christ’:

Think of an omnipotent God descending from heaven, performing astounding miracles, and presenting other proofs of being a God, and yet not one of the three hundred writers of that era take any notice of him, or make any note of his birth or any event of his life. This circumstance is of itself sufficient to banish and dissipate all faith in his divinity.

Many Christians today think that Jesus was born in the first year of the Christian calendar (e.i. 1 CE). In fact this is not correct. Many scholars today date Jesus’s birth between 6-4 BCE. Religions of the World stated under “THE CHRISTIAN CALENDERâ€Â:
“The system of numbering years that is most familiar in the Western world is based on the year when it was thought that Jesus was born . . . But more recent research shows that Jesus was probably born in 4 BCE, not 1 CE.â€Â
What about the Bible? Did it set a date for the birth of the Christ? The birth of Jesus is mentioned in two gospels, Matthew and Luke. According to the Gospel of Matthew (2:1), Jesus was born in the time of the King Herod who died in 4 BCE. While the gospel of Luke (2:1-2) mentions that Jesus was begotten in the time of the governorship of Cyrenius who had just became the governor of Syria after 10 years of Herod’s death. That makes the birth of Jesus to be around 6 CE. In other words, Matthew says that the birth of Jesus was in 4 BCE but Luke mistakenly says that it was ten years later, 6 CE. Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible which “has been a standard reference work for over a century and has been widely used by all evangelical denominations,†commented on Luke 2:2:

“This taxing was first made when Cyrenius, etc.†- The next difficulty in this text is found in this verse, which may be translated, Now this first enrolment was made when Quirinus was governor of Syria.
It is easily proved, and has been proved often, that Caius Sulpicius Quirinus, the person mentioned in the text, was not governor of Syria, till ten or twelve years after the birth of our Lord.
St. Matthew says that our Lord was born in the reign of Herod, Luk 2:1, at which time Quintilius Varus was president of Syria, (Joseph. Ant. book xvii. c. 5, sect. 2), who was preceded in that office by Sentius Saturninus . . . so that it is impossible that the census mentioned by the evangelist could have been made in the presidency of Quirinus.
 
Almost every symbol known to man has at one time or another been used in pagan worship to some degree or another.

"Take enough tribes, enough tales, enough time, jump from one time to another, from one country to another, pick and choose similarities-why anything could be "proved"!" (Ralph Woodrow)

Just because the church picked the date of a pagan holiday(s), doesn't mean the Church is pagan. The church is using it to point the pagans to the Truth. Sometimes pagans had a hint of the greater truth that God would reveal.
Psalms 84:11 says "For the LORD God is a sun and shield". Malachi 4:2 applies the title Sun of Righteousness (or Sun of Justice) to the coming Messiah: "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings". Zechariah was inspired by the Holy Spirit to call Christ the "Dayspring from on high" (Luke 1:78). Dayspring literally means "rising sun". Would you say that these scriptures are promoting pagan worship of the sun? of course not. Christ is indeed the true invincible sun, because sin and death could not overcome Him (Rom. 5:15-21; 6:9-11; 2 Tim. 1:10).
The Church redirected the Roman worship away from created realities like the sun, which symbolized Christ in some sense, to Christ Himself, through whom everything was created (Col. 1:15-17). In this way the Church "baptizes" pagan customs and the pagan festivities are not practiced anymore. Many think that any association with things pagan is anti-Christian and blasphemous. St. Paul, though, taught and acted differently. In Acts 17 we see him teaching the Athenians, who worshipped an unknown God, using what they knew to point them to the greater Truth.


Actually, there's proof that the day of Dec. 25 might not be so incorrect:

First, careful study shows that Western Christians were celebrating Christmas on 25 December in the late third century, before the Sol Invictus festival was widely celebrated in the Empire 1. So Christians did not create this feast to oppose a popular Roman one. As far as Christmas being a "continuation" of a pagan festival, this seems unlikely when one considers the abhorrence many Christians felt toward paganism. Believers of Jewish descent did not suddenly lose their deep aversion to idolatry after Baptism, and converts from paganism often despised the religions which they left behind. Thousands of Christians died during the Romans persecutions rather than engage in pagan rites. Why would they embrace the hated celebrations of their persecutors?

So how did Christ's birth come to be celebrated on 25 December? Early Christians believed that Jesus was crucified on 25 March (according to the Julian Calendar, that is). They also believe that this was the very same day that He was conceived in Mary's womb about thirty-four years earlier. It seemed most fitting to them that the first day of His earthly mission be the same day as his last, thus connecting the mystery of the Incarnation with that of the Redemption.

So Christians celebrated 25 March as the Feast of the Annunciation, a commemoration which continues today. Since 25 December falls exactly nine months after the Annunciation, it seemed the most natural day on which to celebrate Jesus' birth (although Eastern Christians, following a different tradition, opted for 6 January, twelve days later than their Western brothers and sisters).

There may even be a strong basis for 25 December as the actual, historical date of Christ's nativity. In a recent issue of "Osservatore Romano" (the Vatican's official newspaper), Professor Tommaso Federici, Professor at the Pontifical Urbanian University and consultant to two Vatican Congregations, says that recent archaological discoveries in the Holy Land shed light on when Jesus was born:

"As long ago as 1958, the Israeli scholar Shemaryahu Talmon published an in-depth study on the calendar of the Qumran sect, and he reconstructed without the shadow of doubt the order of the sacerdotal rota system for the temple of Jerusalem (1 Chronicles 24, 7-18) in New Testament times. Here the family of Abijah, of which Zechariah was a descendent, father of John the herald and forerunner (Luke 1,5) was required to officiate twice a year, on the days 8-14 of the third month, and on the days 24-30 of the eighth month. This latter period fell at about the end of September. It is not without reason that the Byzantine calendar celebrated 'John's conception' on September 23 and his birth nine months later, on June 24. The 'six months' after the Annunciation established as a liturgical feast on March 25, comes three months before the forerunner's birth, prelude to the nine months in December: December 25 is a date of history" 2.

Even the common argument that shepherds would not have been in the fields in December is inaccurate. That is the time of the year when sheep naturally begin giving birth ("lambing"), and the shepherds would typically stay with the sheep at night to take care of the newborn lambs. In fact, the lambing season would have been the only time of the year in which the shepherds would have stayed with the flocks during the night (see Luke 2:8).

This information seems to confirm that Jesus could well have been born on or near 25 December, perhaps even 6 January (considering the many possible normal fluctuations of gestational periods). So either of these traditional dates may be - or at least come very close to - Jesus' real birthday! The fact that December 25 happens to fall four days after the Winter Solstice is a coincidence of history (and the Eastern Christmas is sixteen days removed from the solstice, so it's harder to see a connection there).
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/pagan8.html
 
25 December is not a coincedence, it was the birth day of Sol Invectus. He the sun god and also other different gods of different nations. How can we adopt such practices and feel that it is ok and not be bothered about it? This scares me to hear peoples responses to these points as if it's nothing. Jesus would not accept these things, these are not from the pure teachings and when i hear others responses to such things in such a care free manner it fraightens me. We must question ourselves, is our faith of Christianity becoming somthing that does not demand deep study of it essence and practices for it to remin free from innovations such as theys and the images of the Catholic churches and icons of the Orthodox churches. Please reply with answers.
I would like to know what is your suggestion about the pagan tree and using Oden the god of the Germans which was forbidden by the Old Testament? And what about the biblical mistake of two contradicted dates?
 
I thought Constantine re-dedicated all the major holidays to God?
He also forced the Trinity on the church :sad
 
supernac said:
I thought Constantine re-dedicated all the major holidays to God?
He also forced the Trinity on the church :sad
Actually, after Nicea (325) Constantine supported the Arians and ordered the reinstitution of Arius as a priest. Interestingly, the night before Arius was to be restored, he fell dead.
From that time (ca 326) until 380 AD- about 55 years- the Trinitarians were a persecuted minority.

Factual corrections- just another service offered by your friend
Orthodox Christian
 
I'll eat my words, I still blame Constantine though, it was his idea
to use the church to keep Rome together. Makes you wonder about
any creed that came out during this time frame.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/trinity.htm

It was a theological power grab by a faction of the church. A major complication throughout all this was that the emperors were involved and directed the outcome. At Nicaea it was Constantine that decided the outcome. Then we have the flip-flopping of opinion with the result that Athanasius is exiled and recalled depending on who is in power. In 357 AD the declaration that homoousios and homoiousios are unbiblical, and that the Father is greater than His subordinate Son. This is 180 degrees from Nicaea.

In 380 AD Emperor Thedosius declares Christianity the state religion. One can come to the conclusion that whichever way Theodosius favors, that is the way in which it is going to end. This is exactly what happened next.

In 381 AD the struggle was finally ended by the current emperor, Theodosius the Great, who favored the Nicene position. Just like at Nicaea, the EMPEROR again decided it. The emperors were dictating the theology of the church.

The big difference now was that there was not going to be any more changing sides. It was now the state religion. You cannot make Christianity the state religion and then change its beliefs every few years. It would undermine its credibility as the true faith. The Trinity was now the orthodox position, and the state was willing to back it up with force.
 
supernac said:
I'll eat my words, I still blame Constantine though, it was his idea
to use the church to keep Rome together. Makes you wonder about
any creed that came out during this time frame.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/trinity.htm

It was a theological power grab by a faction of the church. A major complication throughout all this was that the emperors were involved and directed the outcome. At Nicaea it was Constantine that decided the outcome. Then we have the flip-flopping of opinion with the result that Athanasius is exiled and recalled depending on who is in power. In 357 AD the declaration that homoousios and homoiousios are unbiblical, and that the Father is greater than His subordinate Son. This is 180 degrees from Nicaea.

In 380 AD Emperor Thedosius declares Christianity the state religion. One can come to the conclusion that whichever way Theodosius favors, that is the way in which it is going to end. This is exactly what happened next.

In 381 AD the struggle was finally ended by the current emperor, Theodosius the Great, who favored the Nicene position. Just like at Nicaea, the EMPEROR again decided it. The emperors were dictating the theology of the church.

The big difference now was that there was not going to be any more changing sides. It was now the state religion. You cannot make Christianity the state religion and then change its beliefs every few years. It would undermine its credibility as the true faith. The Trinity was now the orthodox position, and the state was willing to back it up with force.
We know that the word 'Trinity' in connection with Christian theology predates Nicea by at 100 year or more.

The Christian Church had always held Jesus to be God. This is clear from early documents, this is clear from the scriptures. What Arius introduced was the notion that there was a time when Christ was not. That is to say, He was a created being. The Church had already lived through the Gnostic heresy that ascribed to Christ the position of God- but as the 'good' God (inheriting from Marcion the demiurge concept). With Arius' teaching, it became necessary to counter yet another departure from the received instruction of the Church.

Thus, the Church came together in 325 AD to put into words what was already believed. The arguments against Arius were so compelling as to convince all but 2 of the 318 bishops present.

But the Arians were politically savvy. They used their political connections to enforce exiles of anti-Arian bishops/particularly Athanasius, the stalwart of the Trinitarian orthodoxy. If Athanasius was as eager for power as the website you linked purports, he was a fool- for he hitched his wagon to a theology that cost him exile 5 times for a total of 17 years. Rather than make him powerful, Athansius' convictions cost him everything.

You may or may not be aware that the 27 book list of NT canon was first presented by- yes, Athanasius.
 
In his book, "A History of Christianity" Kenneth Scott Latourette comments:

To enforce the decisions of the Council of Nicea, Constantine commanded, with the death penalty for disobedience, the burning of all books composed by Arius, banished Arius and his closest supporters, and deposed from their sees Eusebius of Nicomedia and another bishop who had been active in the support of Arius.

The idea of the supporters of Athanasius were not all of the members of Necea council. They were only 318 out of 1800.
 
CHAPTER II: Other Pagan Concepts & Practices

Cut & Paste
December 25 surprises many. For the past three centuries, no one would think that this day is of pagan origin. As the church is the one who is responsible for selecting the pagan festival, it is also responsible for many other rituals and teachings that were taken from the pagans. In this booklet we will see the most important concepts and practices which are stolen from the ancient pagan nations. You may also notice that it is very similar to what we have in the computer field the action of cut and paste. Similarly we find that the Church created Christianity in a similar fashion of cut and paste with the previous pagan cultures. I know this may be shocking to come to this understanding but this is how it is. If you are truthful with yourself you will see.

Baptism
In the gospel of Mark 1:5, John the Baptist was baptizing people in the river of Jordan because, as Mark notes, they were “confessing their sins.†The water of baptism symbolizes a washing away of sins. One of those who came to confess their sins and to be baptized was Jesus. Mark writes:
“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.†(Mark 1:9)
How and why would John baptize and purify his God? There is no answer for this question except when we seek its origin.
The key to understanding why John baptized his God are found in the words of the mythologists (Scholars of mythologies) Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy who commented:
“Examining the stories of John the Baptist and Jesus, we do seem to be clearly in mythological territory.†The reason why they said so is explained when they had said, “Jesus is baptized, a ritual practiced for centuries in the Mysteries.â€Â
“Mysteries†are the rituals and practices of worshipping the pagan gods. If the practice of baptism is originally a Christian rite, then we must ask ourselves why was this ritual performed many thousands years before Christianity? Anciently performed by very old civilizations. One of the oldest said civilizations was that of a people who lived in Iraq and were called SUMERIANS. Please look to an encyclopedia and read about this perished nation! The Sumerians created hundreds of gods. Every aspect of material life was idolized. One of the elements they chose as a god was water. The god of water was EA. More than five thousands years ago, Ea’s priests and devoted worshippers performed the baptism. The Mythologist Joseph Campbell writes:
“The rite of baptism was an ancient rite coming down from old Sumerian temple city Eridu, of the water god Ea, ‘God of the House of Water.’ â€Â
In fact, Christianity did not inherit baptism directly from the Sumerians but it was a long process until finally the Church inherited it from other cultures. Among those ancient nations who practiced Baptisms were the ancient Egyptians, the Mayans of South America, the Hindus, the Persians, the Greeks, the Germans and Scandinavians. All of these nations practiced Baptism long before Christianity. The pagan heritage of the act of Baptism was passed to Christianity directly from the Romans. Baptism was chosen on the eighth day for girls and the ninth for boys, this was their practice. Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy said:
“Baptism was a central rite in the [Pagan] Mysteriesâ€Â

Eucharist (Bread & Wine)
Two days before the crucifixion, Jesus gathered with his disciples for a meal. This meal was called the Last Supper. The gospel of Mark mentions an important action made by Jesus at the Supper:
“And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body. And he [Jesus] took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it. And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.†(Mark 14:22-24)
Since eating bread and drinking wine became synonymous with the masses in the memory of the Lord’s Supper. This ritual is called “EUCHARIST.†The Catholics as well as Orthodoxies believe that the Eucharist literally becomes the flesh and blood of Jesus. Unlike the Protestants who believe that the bread and wine are only symbols. Whatever differences are there, we have to ask ourselves, “Why would God ask people to eat him? Is this not cannibalism?â€Â
Actually it is. It is also a ritual taken from pagans. Most old nations and pagan religions have these same ideas within them and yet they predated the Christians for thousands years. Long ago, in Persia, a child was born from a rock on the 25th of December. He was Mithra. His worshippers believed that he is omniscient with 1000 ears and 10,000 eyes. He is served by 10,000 spies. As Christians believe that Jesus offered his flesh to be eaten and his blood to be drunk, similar to Jesus’ words in Mark’s gospel, Mithra had said: “He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made one with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation.â€Â
Please notice that the veneration of Mithra began more than 2000 years before Jesus! So these words were spoken by Mithra before that date. 4000 years ago, the Persians had their ‘Holy Communion’ for the Savior, Mithra by eating the bread, drinking the mixture of water and wine. Part of the Mithraic communion liturgy included these words of Mithra (which are cited above).
The Holy Communion of Mithra (or Mithras) was passed over to the Romans for their different gods and goddesses, where, later on, it was adopted within Christianity for Jesus. The International Encyclopedia states:
Mithras seems to have owed his prominence to the belief that he was the source of life, and could also redeem the souls of the dead into the better world ... The ceremonies included a sort of baptism to remove sins, anointing, and a sacred meal of bread and water, while a consecrated wine, believed to possess wonderful power, played a prominent part.
Prof. Franz Cumont, of the University of Ghent, writes in his, ‘The Mysteries of Mithras’, pp. 190-191:
The sectaries of the Persian god, like the Christians', purified themselves by baptism, received by a species of confirmation the power necessary to combat the spirit of evil; and expected from a Lord's supper salvation of body and soul. Like the latter, they also held Sunday sacred, and celebrated the birth of the Sun on the 25th of December.
Furthermore, there are other nations who also had Eucharist before Christianity. To name a few: The Hindus, Buddhists of Nepal and Tibet, ancient Aztecs, Chinese Confucians, old Egyptians, Greeks and Romans; all had the Eucharist.
The Romans called it LECTESTERNIA. There were different cults of gods like: Hercules, Jupiter, Vesta, Juno, Minerva, Isis, Apollo, Venus, Diana, Neptune, Mercury and Mars. Commonly, for every god they practiced Eucharist. Thus a Roman philosopher, Cicero (106-43 BCE) mocked them by saying:
“Is anybody so mad as to believe that the food which he eats is actually a god?â€Â

The Cross
Christians use the sign of the cross, referring to the crucifixion of Jesus and his sacrifice. This sign began to be used only in the middle of the 3rd century. In prior times, in the early centuries of Christianity, the symbol used by the Christians was the fish.
Why did Christians change the sign from the fish to the cross? The Catholic Encyclopedia answers this question by stating:
The sign of the cross, represented in its simplest form by a crossing of two lines at right angles, greatly antedates, in both East and the West, the introduction of Christianity. It goes back to a very remote period of human civilization … In later times the Egyptian Christians (Copts), attracted by its form, and perhaps by its symbolism, adopted it as the emblem of the cross.
Another question is how did Christians get the cross from the pagans? This question is answered by Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words; it says:
“In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system, pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols.â€Â
The Christians took the symbol of the cross from the Romans. Thus Bishop Alexander Hislop notes:
“The Vestal virgins of Pagan Rome wore it [e.g. the Cross] suspended from their necklaces, as the nuns do now.â€Â
Again here, most of the pagan nations had already used the cross before the Christians. It seems that the first nation to use the cross would be the Babylonians for their god Thammuz. Then following them were various nations like the ancient Egyptians, Romans, Buddhists of Tibet, Celts (fathers of the Irish) and the Scandinavians. Encyclopedia Britannica stated:
From its simplicity of form, the cross has been used both as a religious symbol and as an ornament, from the dawn of man's civilization. Various objects, dating from periods long anterior to the Christian era, have been found, marked with crosses of different designs, in almost every part of the old world. India, Syria, Persia and Egypt have all yielded numberless examples, while numerous instances, dating from the later Stone Age to Christian times, have been found in nearly every part of Europe. The use of the cross as a religious symbol in pre-Christian times, and among non-Christian peoples, may probably be regarded as almost universal, and in very many cases it was connected with some form of nature worship.
[/img]
 
Son of God
For a man to be God Himself is not acceptable. Why? The priests of the pagan religions, beside the Christian priests, know that God is not a man! God is superior, supreme, almighty, and there is nothing like Him.
All of the pagan gods are described according to human imagination, which is a product of his experience and environment. One of the strongest emotions in humans, and animals as well, is the bond between parent and child. All worshipped men are described as Sons of God because a son is always attributed to his father. But the son is held lower than his father. So to solve this problem, the priests devised a theological philosophy that the son-god personified his father-god and was a part, incarnation or aspect of his father, which made the son that supreme God Himself! But is the son actually his father?
Several months ago, I entered a Lutheran parish. I met there a German Pastor whose name was Gilbert Filter. I asked him, “Is Jesus God or Son of God?†He replied, “Both!†I said, “God is one.†He agreeably said, “Yes.†I continued asking him, “Then how could we say, ‘Jesus is God and Son of God’ at the same time?†He said, “As I am here, in front of you, son of my father and father of my son.†Pastor Filter hoped to make it sensible. He tried to explain that the problem is not a problem. But I opened his eyes to see that the problem is serious. I asked him as simple as that, “Is your son yourself?†Shockingly, he answered, “No!†He was shocked because he predicted what I was going to say. There I said, “Then how do you say, ‘Jesus is son of God and he is God himself’? Is God son of himself?†Father Filter paused puzzled. He realized that he was worshipping two Gods. He continued, recognizing his failure, then putting his head down and saying, “We can not understand the Trinityâ€Â
I said to another one who also belong to the same Church, “If we would accept that God begets a son then it would be not impossible to accept that He begets another son or daughter. Then that son or daughter to beget another child. Where we will find, God the Father, God the Son, Goddess the Daughter, God the Grandson and God the Grandfather. A family of Gods! Then we would appreciate the Hindus who worship 300,000,000 gods.†What if the Jews did not betray Jesus when he was young? What if they betrayed him later after he had married Mary Magdalene and begat children? Would his children then be Gods, who are incarnation of God himself? We do not have a doubt that the millions of the Christians would worship his offspring.
However, most pagan nations worshipped their rulers, kings and emperors (human beings) and regarded them as God’s incarnation. We find this idea with the emperors of China, emperors of Japan, pharaohs of Egypt, kings of Babylonia, and the emperors of Greece and Rome.
The title of “Son of God†was not confined only to kings and emperors, it was given to every man worshipped as a god. History tells us that in almost every pagan nation there was a man amongst them entitled God, Son of God, Beloved Son of God, Begotten Son of God, Savior, Mediator, Lord, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Redeemer, Light, Way, Life, and so on, long before Jesus. The same titles we find them with Thammuz the Savior of Babylonia, Crite of Chaldea, “the Ever Blessed Son of God†and “the Savior of the Race,†Mithra of Persia, Krishna of India, Osiris of Egypt, Adonis of Syria, Dionysus of Greece, Bacchus of the Romans, Thor and Bulder of the Germans and Scandinavians, Hesus of the Celts, Attis of Asia Minor and Quetzalcoatl of Mexeco. Kersy Graves notes:

The title "Son of God" was so common in nearly all religious countries as to excite but little awe or attention . . . [as] Thor of the Scandinavians was denominated "the first-born Son of God" . . . It requires, therefore, a wide stretch of faith to believe that Jesus Christ was in any peculiar sense "the Son of God," because so denominated, or "the only begotten Son of God," when so many others are reported in history bearing that title.
 
Problem is, Jesus referred to Himself constantly as God's Son.

Was Jesus, therefore, a Pagan?
 
By your reasoning we need to throw out most of the Old Testament;

The pagans had a temple, then God gives Israelites a temple.
The pagans had a priesthood, God gives Israelites a priesthood.
The Pagan Priests had vestments, the Levitical priesthood has vestments.
The Pagans used incense in worship, the Israelites used incense in worship.
The Pagans, had spring and fall harvest feasts, God gives Israel spring and fall harvest feasts.
The pagans baptized, the Christians baptized.
http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/adve ... eaven.html


As far as Christmas;

"And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people, . For unto you is born THIS DAY in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." (Luke 2:9-11)

Jesus is Lord of all the days of the year, even December 25. I really don't see why we should care what day we celebrate it. The point is that we do celebrate the coming of our savior. We should rejoice because the prophecy is being fulfilled that Jesus’ birthday is a great joy for “allâ€Â, even if we do not know the exact day. Those who fail to have great joy when Jesus' birthday is celebrated have issues in my opinion.
 
Anti-Pagan said:
25 December is not a coincedence, it was the birth day of Sol Invectus. He the sun god and also other different gods of different nations.

This argument can end easily because there IS NO SUN GOD. There is only ONE God. And that is the God that created us. He has a begotten son named Jesus.
:-D

And don't bother arguing with me that there is a sun god or any other type of god. I was once a practicing witch and I know that Satan can easily deceive others into thinking there are other god's.
 
Back
Top