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"The Son of Man"

JM

Member
Quote:

This is a title connected with the Lord Jesus in relation to the earth. Its first occurrence in Psa. 8 fixes its peculiar signification. That Psalm begins and ends with a reference to the "earth," and, after speaking of "the Son of Man," it adds: "Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of Thy hands."

It will be found, therefore, that wherever this title occurs, it always refers to the Lord Jesus in connection with His dominion in the earth. And, when used of His second coming, it refers to the judgment which He is then and there to exercise.

It is most remarkable, and so remarkable as to make it practically conclusive, that this title, while it occurs eighty-four times in the New Testament, is never once used in the Pauline epistles addressed to Churches; thus proving that this title has nothing whatever to do with the Church. But while it has no connection with the Church, in the Epistles, it occurs no less than eighty times in the four Gospels and Acts, because there we have Christ on the earth, and the presentation of the King and the Kingdom. But, when again he reveals Himself by this title, it is in the Book of Revelation (1:13 and 14:14).*

Between the Gospels and the Revelation there are only two occurrences, on where Stephen sees Him (Acts 7:56) in a vision, standing as though to avenge the blood of His servant, then being shed on the earth (anticipatory of His action in the Apocalypse); and once in Heb. 2:6, where it is merely a quotation of Pslam 8.

Thus we are pointed to the fact, and told (if we have ears to hear), that the Apocalypse relates to the coming of "the Son of Man" to exercise judgment in and assume dominion over the earth.

It is remarkable that the first use of the title in the New Testament is in Matt. 8:20, where it is said: "The Son of Man hath no where to lay His head": and the last is in Rev. 14:14, where the Son of Man is seen "having on His head a golden crown." Both are connected with his "head," and with the earth; while in the latter there is associated both judgment and dominion.

The significance of this title is further proved by its contrast with the title "Son of God" in John 5:25-27: "Verily, I say unto you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of THE SON OF GOD, and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in Himself, so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself; and hath given Him authority to execute judgment also; because He is THE SON OF MAN."

It is thus clear that the use of this title twice in Revelation (1:13 and 14:14), and not once in the Church Epistles, is a further proof that the Church is not the subject of the Apocalypse.
The Church has no more to do with Christ under the title of "The Son of Man" than the Syro-Phoenician woman had anything to do with Him as "the Son of David."

We ought to add that this fact is a key to all the passages where this title is used: and shows that Matt. 14 and 25 have nothing whatever to do with the Church of God, because of the use of this title in 24:30, and 25:31. Both refer to His coming in clouds to the earth in judgment, after the Church has been taken up, and after the Great Tribulation.
 
Lot of good Messianic "Son of Man" stuff in the Book of Enoch found online.
 
1 John 32: " Beloved now we are the sons of Gods" we /man are the sons of God.
Therefore, the phrase should read , Christ is the "son of Man".
I agree this name has been specifically designed for His second as you put it His second occurrence on earth.

This name has also been specifically designed to reveals Him, as well as His second coming. The son is lower case to the Man. Therefore it must be written as "son of Man". You are looking at the answer.

The "son of Man" will be revealed to you.
Matthew ;17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Therefore, plain as day, the "son of Man" will be revealed to us...and the name "son of Man" will reveal Him.
 
There is a word used in the NT that does not appear at all in the OT. It is the word graft and its other forms. (ed, ing) 8-) We, God's ekklesia, are not a completely seperate entity on its own, we were grafted into an entity that already existed.
 
Vic said:
There is a word used in the NT that does not appear at all in the OT. It is the word graft and its other forms. (ed, ing) 8-) We, God's ekklesia, are not a completely seperate entity on its own, we were grafted into an entity that already existed.

Consider this quote:

Analogy of the Olive Tree

Chapter 11 of Romans is a very valuable passage for understanding what happened and what is going to happen to the nation of Israel and where the present church fits into God's plan. In Romans 11, Paul explains the dispensational change from Israel to the Gentile nations and how it will on day change back again. Paul begins in Romans 11:1-2 by asking, "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew." Then in Romans 11:7, "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded ...." Most of the nation of Israel was blinded in unbelief, with only a remnant accepting the Messiah.

But what will be the result of Israel's blindness? Romans 11:11-12 says, "I say then, Have they (the nation of Israel) stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" Remember how in the Old Testament passages that we looked at, we saw that salvation would be brought to the Gentiles when the Messiah sets up His kingdom and all Israel was saved. But here and now we have the opposite. Through Israel's unbelief, salvation has been brought to the Gentiles. So during this dispensation of grace (church age), we are not seeing the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies of Israel's priesthood to the Gentiles. Rather, this dispensation was a mystery, a secret that was not revealed until God called forth our apostle Paul. God is not through with Israel. Though they are presently fallen, God will one day bring the nation of Israel to their fulness.

Paul says in Romans 11:13, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office ...." It is key to note that in this passage, Paul addresses the Gentiles at large, not just the church. This is because he is explaining the dispensational changes from Israel being in the place of privilege, to the Gentiles being in the place of privilege and back again, as we will see.

In Romans 11:15 he continues, "For if the casting away of them (Israel) be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" The Old Testament prophecies of Israel's salvation will still be fulfilled one day, and Israel's revival will be a great blessing to the Gentile nations.

Using the analogy of an olive tree, Paul explains the relationship between the Gentile nations and the nation of Israel. Romans 11:17 says, "For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches." As we will see, the "root" is the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and his sons. The people of Israel are the "branches" to which Paul is referring. Continuing in Romans 11:17-18, "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee." Some of the nation of Israel were broken off, and the Gentile nations, the branches of the "wild olive tree", were grafted into that place of privilege and blessing. But the Gentiles should not think too highly of themselves or lowly of Israel who was broken off.

Continuing on to Romans 11:19-24, "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?" Some have incorrectly attempted to use this passage to support the false doctrine that a Christians can lose their salvation, but that is not even the topic here. This passage is about how the Gentile nations have temporarily been put into that place of privilege that Israel once held, and will one day hold again. Israel fits into the good olive tree more naturally than do the Gentile nations. So the Gentiles are not to be puffed up in pride over their present position, as some all too often are.

Romans 11:25-26, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob ...." When God is through calling out the last Christian from this dispensation of grace, then God will turn back to Israel. He will break off the Gentile branches and graft the broken off branches of Israel back into the good olive tree.

God's focus shifts from Israel in the dispensation of grace to the present church, which is being filled mostly with Gentiles and some Jews. When this dispensation is complete, however, Israel will again be brought into the spotlight in the tribulation and millennial kingdom.

To clarify Paul's statement in Romans 11:26 that "... all Israel shall be saved ...", we must remember to keep it in the context of what Paul had said in Romans 9:6, "... For they are not all Israel which are of Israel ...." This is why Zechariah 13:8-9 prophesies that only one third of the Israelites in the future tribulation will be saved. "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part (one third) through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." This is also as Isaiah 9:8 says, "The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel." Here, "Israel" is the believing portion of "Jacob", the whole nation.
 
Continuing in Romans 11:17-18, "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee." Some of the nation of Israel were broken off, and the Gentile nations, the branches of the "wild olive tree", were grafted into that place of privilege and blessing. But the Gentiles should not think too highly of themselves or lowly of Israel who was broken off....

... So the Gentiles are not to be puffed up in pride over their present position, as some all too often are.
My point exactly. Thanks for the commentary but...

Would you provide source or link?

Two reasons; you know the first one. :wink:

The second is; I'd like to read more about this:

Remember how in the Old Testament passages that we looked at, we saw that salvation would be brought to the Gentiles when the Messiah sets up His kingdom and all Israel was saved.
 
Would you provide source or link?

Sure thing, just keep in mind my words, "Consider this quote." It's not my position, but a quote, not my words but words to consider when thinking about this topic. http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html#Olive You may scroll up or down to view more topics.

Two reasons; you know the first one.

I don't know the first reason, for real, I don't.

The second is; I'd like to read more about this:

Yes, what you quoted should be analyzed. If I may suggest another topic that is in direct relation to this topic...the New Covenant. How does the New Covenant ["The day will come,' says the Lord, 'when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah....But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,' says the Lord. 'I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people" Jeremiah 31:31,33] affect our understanding of the Church during the End Times.

Now we're gettin' somewhere! I think about this topics all the time, I pray and read about them, I study them from every possible angle and I look forward to finding out what you think about them...in relation to end times.

Peace brother.

JM
 
JM said:
Two reasons; you know the first one.

I don't know the first reason, for real, I don't.
Aah, I was kidding around with you... thought you would get it.

Rule 11 - Respect copyrighted material:

:-D

Now we're gettin' somewhere! I think about this topics all the time, I pray and read about them, I study them from every possible angle and I look forward to finding out what you think about them...in relation to end times.

Peace brother.

JM
We are getting somewhere? Really? Cool, I think. :wink:
 
JM said:
We ought to add that this fact is a key to all the passages where this title is used: and shows that Matt. 14 and 25 have nothing whatever to do with the Church of God, because of the use of this title in 24:30, and 25:31. Both refer to His coming in clouds to the earth in judgment, after the Church has been taken up, and after the Great Tribulation.
Christ has various names that denote His various roles: Jesus, Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, the Son of Man, etc. Christ also has a slew of other names that are used in heaven. (This same situation also exists with all those who have faith.) All of Christ's names / roles are interconnected, and ultimately have something to do with the Church - since Christ and the Church are one (John 17:20-21). The title Son of Man is particularly relevant to the Church, because God the Father is Man (in the title Son of Man), for whom Christ is His first Son. Further, all those who have faith are the true sons of Man, meaning that they are the sons of God.
 
One other thing, there are many orders of God in the kingdom of God. Man is one of those orders. Besides the fact that the order of man uniquely has all the characteristics of the Father, it has endured the worst testing, and as a result, will rule above all other orders of God at the consummation / end of the universe.
 
Jesus On Earth Is The Image Of The Heavenly Man Christ Jesus

Hi JM:

Thank you for starting this thread. My take on Christ’s use of the phrase “Son of Man†is different than many might have seen before. Please allow me to present my views:

JM >> This is a title connected with the Lord Jesus in relation to the earth. Its first occurrence in Psa. 8 fixes its peculiar signification.

We disagree. You might want to strap yourself into the chair, because this interpretation sounds a bit strange at first.

This title “Son of Man†is a phrase that only Christ uses of Himself, except for Steven (Acts 7:56) after His ascension to the right hand of God. Christ only assumes this title after His baptism in the Jordan River where He receives the Holy Spirit descending “as a dove lighting on Him.†Matthew 3:15-16. At that moment the Father was “IN†Christ (John 14:10-11) and the Holy Spirit was also “IN†Christ, so that He is said to be “Full of the Holy Spirit.†Luke 4:1. From that moment forward Jesus Christ had the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water), as a “three are into the One†(1 John 5:8) "Son of Man" within one walking talking Tabernacle.

I am submitting to you that the Father is the ‘spirit’ of Christ Jesus and the Son is the 'soul' (blood) of Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the 'body' (water) of Christ Jesus and the “three are into the One.†In other words, Jesus Christ is not referring to being a son of Adam, or anything from Old Testament Prophecy. Christ’s statements about Himself are all looking up into the heavenly and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as One Heavenly Man larger than this universe, as these three witnesses represent the “Son of God.†John 1:34. When John the Baptist saw the Spirit descending on Christ and staying on Him, then his testimony was that He had seen the “Son of God†(John 1:34). Consider also that the three witnesses of “The Almighty†(Revelation 1:8) are those of “His God and Father,†(Revelation 1:6), which makes the “Son of God†(F,S,HS) the “image of the Invisible God.†Colossians 1:15. When you then realize that this creation has three witnesses of heavens (spirit), heaven (blood) and earth (water), then the diagram looks something like this:

19.jpg


Find “Heavenly Man Christ Jesus†in the very center of Figure 1 under the red arrow, as one Heavenly ‘man’ (1Timothy 2:5) standing BETWEEN our One God on the left and men on the right. The three witnesses of “The Almighty†stand as one Man in His Infinite Realm and His Son (F,S,HS) is making Intercession for men in this physical Adamic Realm. Note how the Father and the Son share one prefect sphere in the top half of “Christ Jesus†and the Son and Holy Spirit have the relationship in the bottom half. Under Christ Jesus you can see the “Realm of the Word,†because this is where “The Word†existed “with God†in John 1:2 prior to Creation (Earth) being called into being. God's Word was divided into the Father (spirit) and Holy Spirit (water) halves, so God could rejoin them and His Son became the 'only begotten.'

Jesus Christ calling Himself the “Son of MAN†is a reference to this Heavenly Man Christ Jesus in the ‘soul’ realm connecting this Creation to our “one God.†Therefore, the three witnesses of God’s Son = Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The three witnesses of “His God and Father†= “God To Come, God Who Is, God Who Was†of Revelation 1:8. When we turn this diagram 90 degrees, then we can visualize a Man of God, where Christ Jesus is the entire ‘Soul’ and this Creation is the ‘Body’ of an even larger Heavenly Man. This diagram also behaves according to a the rules of the Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple, which is why you see the “First Veil†(Figure 1) between the Outer Court (Earth = Creation) and the Holy Place (Realm of the Word) and the “Second Veil†between the Holy Place of Creation and the Holy of Holies (God’s Infinite Realm).

Do any of you see what I see? Please offer your comments and criticisms using Scripture.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
Please Include Third Party Names And Links To Your Sources

Hi JM:

Your work in the Opening Post of this thread was copied from Bullinger’s work on this webpage: ( http://www.levendwater.org/boeken/revel ... ntro_5.htm ), which is why you cannot muster a reply to anything I said above (Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:52 am). Perhaps you should paste the third party commentary of others that you ‘can’ defend using Scripture. That would save the rest of us from the trouble of building cases against positions of someone else, that you have no intention of defending. The fact that you add the word “Quote:†above is meaningless, unless you add ‘name’ of the author and the ‘link’ to the page from where you ‘cut’ the information.

Please provide the links to your sources in the future, so that we can read the entire work and gather the true context.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
Ok, ok now. No need to repeat what I already said. This has been brought to JM's attention and he is willing to comply. I have no qualms with him or his posts. He did respond with this:

Sure thing, just keep in mind my words, "Consider this quote." It's not my position, but a quote, not my words but words to consider when thinking about this topic. http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html#Olive You may scroll up or down to view more topics.

so I see no reason to "grill" him any further on this matter. Plus...

I'm the Mod... and you're not. ;-)

king1.gif





:lol:
 
Again, the first word "quote" should have told you something about the post. :oops: Ohhhhh, how silly you must feel.
 
Please Post Your Third Party Authors And Links (Rule 11)

Hi JM:

JM >> Again, the first word "quote" should have told you something about the post. Ohhhhh, how silly you must feel.

Silly? No. Rule 11 does not say to paste the word “Quote:†before the third party material you paste here. The very first use of Bullinger’s name on this thread is mine, saying,

Terral Original (Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:37 pm) >> Your work in the Opening Post of this thread was copied from Bullinger’s work on this webpage:

Other members should not be required to come behind you and reveal your sources. My intention was to point out your oversight on all of your posts, but Vic has assured everyone that he is policing the situation and that is good enough for me. Please include the correct references on your outstanding posts that violate Rule 11 and we are all good to go. This is about your credibility; not mine.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
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