The Song of Solomon

[abide]

I am not sure if this topic has been covered before, but I have read this book, but reading the commentaries of the bible many theologians believe that this book is dealing with Christ love for the church. I have no doubt that it is, BUT when you recognise that a husband should love his wife like how Christ loved the church, I can see how this book is really talking about sexual love. I have read it many times and the imagery I have is very sexual. Is my mind way off base..don't think so. It might be improper to even mention here some of the things I believe is seen in this imagery.

Your thoughts ..

 

[evenifigoalone]

I agree.

Made me think of this quote:
"If you think Christians shouldn't talk about things like 'that', then do yourself a favor and don't read Song of Solomon: you'll have a heart attack."
~Brad Stine (The closest I can remember of what he said. Probably not an exact quote, but you get the idea.)

 

[abide]

I agree.

Made me think of this quote:
"If you think Christians shouldn't talk about things like 'that', then do yourself a favor and don't read Song of Solomon: you'll have a heart attack."
~Brad Stine (The closest I can remember of what he said. Probably not an exact quote, but you get the idea.)

 

[farouk]

Israel, not the church.

(You can see I'm a dispensationalist, as per Uncle C I Scofield, and I don't see the church in the Old Testament.)

 

[abide]

Israel, not the church.

(You can see I'm a dispensationalist, as per Uncle C I Scofield, and I don't see the church in the Old Testament.)

So Farouk what says you...do you see the imagery as sexual

 

[Slider]

I see it as very sexual in nature, but it doesn't bother me. Hebrews 13:4 says marriage is honorable in all, and the bed is undefiled. If the Church is the bride of Christ, then God is showing his intimacy with his wife. Its actually a beautiful thing.

 

[abide]

I see it as very sexual in nature, but it doesn't bother me. Hebrews 13:4 says marriage is honorable in all, and the bed is undefiled. If the Church is the bride of Christ, then God is showing his intimacy with his wife. Its actually a beautiful thing.

It doesnt bother me either. I have to agree with you that it is very sexual. My point was that many religious people have tried to remove the "sexual" aspect from it. If you are talking about a husband and a wife or bride...sex is very REAL part of being married. I LOVE READING THIS BOOK

 

[farouk]

So Farouk what says you...do you see the imagery as sexual

abide: Whether I do or whether I don't, I'm not sure that I would particularly talk about it here.

If you get my meaning.

I think that we approach matters differently.

This subject is one that I don't particularly like to discuss on a thread such as this.

Whereas a subject such as faith based tattoo designs (which I would have thought was a lot 'tamer' than the one you are discussing now) seems to be a fairly reasonable and constructive subject.

So I guess we sometimes see things a bit differently.

Blessings.

 

[abide]

abide: Whether I do or whether I don't, I'm not sure that I would particularly talk about it here.

If you get my meaning.

I think that we approach matters differently.

This subject is one that I don't particularly like to discuss on a thread such as this.

Whereas a subject such as faith based tattoo designs (which I would have thought was a lot 'tamer' than the one you are discussing now) seems to be a fairly reasonable and constructive subject.

So I guess we sometimes see things a bit differently.

Blessings.

The purpose of my post was to seek persons opinion on whether they see the the imagery in the Song of Solomon as sexual or as the traditional theologians see it. I am not sure why you seem to think this subject should not be discussed here. The idea of sexual love in the context of married love...nothing to be ashamed of.. The marriage bed is undefiled..So what is your problem..

 

[farouk]

The purpose of my post was to seek persons opinion on whether they see the the imagery in the Song of Solomon as sexual or as the traditional theologians see it. I am not sure why you seem to think this subject should not be discussed here. The idea of sexual love in the context of married love...nothing to be ashamed of.. The marriage bed is undefiled..So what is your problem..

abide:

Hebrews does indeed say that the marital bed is undefiled.

There's also a private aspect to it.

Anyway, some of Song of Solomon isn't about bodily functions. For example, in ch. it says: 'Thy name is as ointment poured forth'. This preaches well!

 

[abide]

abide:

Hebrews does indeed say that the marital bed is undefiled.

There's also a private aspect to it.

Anyway, some of Song of Solomon isn't about bodily functions. For example, in ch. it says: 'Thy name is as ointment poured forth'. This preaches well!

This is not "tame" language. Of course God is speaking of Israel's idolatry but you can see he sees it in the contex of an adulterous woman...a woman who have SEX with someone OTHER than her husband.

The word WHORE occurs 65 times in the (unrevised) King James Version (including related words such as "whoredom"), 36 times in the American Standard Version, and 48 times in the English Standard Version​

Why did God use this term... God is not a prude...He says things just as they are.

Ezekiel 16:34 So in your prostitution you are the opposite of others; no one runs after you for your favors. You are the very opposite, for you give payment and none is given to you.

Ezekiel 16:25 Thou has built thy high places at every head of the way and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred and hast opened thy feet to eveyone that passed by and multiply thy whoredoms. (What if a husband made this statement to his wife..) God has nothing to hide...so you shouldn't. Why would he place this in his word.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what these verses mean.

God could have used "tamer" words but he did not. ;)

I am done with this comment to you.

Enjoy your life as a married man..hope you are married.

 

[farouk]

This is not "tame" language. Of course God is speaking of Israel's idolatry but you can see he sees it in the contex of an adulterous woman...a woman who have SEX with someone OTHER than her husband.

The word WHORE occurs 65 times in the (unrevised) King James Version (including related words such as "whoredom"), 36 times in the American Standard Version, and 48 times in the English Standard Version​

Why did God use this term... God is not a prude...He says things just as they are.

Ezekiel 16:34 So in your prostitution you are the opposite of others; no one runs after you for your favors. You are the very opposite, for you give payment and none is given to you.

Ezekiel 16:25 Thou has built thy high places at every head of the way and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred and hast opened thy feet to eveyone that passed by and multiply thy whoredoms.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what these verses mean.

God could have used "tamer" words but he did not. ;)

I am done with this comment to you.

Enjoy your life as a married man..hope you are married.

abide:

I am married, yes. I reckon that because I am, I'm kind of a bit reluctant to go into a lot of detail about this particular subject.

My use of the word 'tamer' was in the context that I seem to remember that you objected to my discussion of faith based tattoo designs elsewhere, which I would have thought was far less explicit that this subject now, but anyway, we are all different.

Blessings.

 

[abide]

abide:

I am married, yes. I reckon that because I am, I'm kind of a bit reluctant to go into a lot of detail about this particular subject. Why. I was married and divorce and don't mind going into it. Are you so shy..

My use of the word 'tamer' was in the context that I seem to remember that you objected to my discussion of faith based tattoo designs elsewhere, which I would have thought was far less explicit that this subject now, but anyway, we are all different.

Blessings.

The subject you are referring to was inspired by God. I did not write the bible if God did not want it to be in there he would not have allowed it.

Genesis 38

15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, “Come now, let me sleep with you.”

Do you understand what he wanted to do sleep with a prostitute.
This is recorded in the bible. ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED.
When you read these verses how do you feel.. nauseated
If you are uncomfortable with these verses so sad. The bible is about human beings.. Interestingly some groups in Indonesia have stated that they refuse to let their children read the bible because it is too explicit.

I am not showing pornographic images here. I thought that the Victorian era had long gone, but it sure hasn't.

 

[farouk]

The subject you are referring to was inspired by God. I did not write the bible if God did not want it to be in there he would not have allowed it.

Genesis 38

15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, “Come now, let me sleep with you.â€

Do you understand what he wanted to do sleep with a prostitute.
This is recorded in the bible. ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED.
When you read these verses how do you feel.. nauseated
If you are uncomfortable with these verses so sad. The bible is about human beings.. Interestingly some groups in Indonesia have stated that they refuse to let their children read the bible because it is too explicit.

I am not showing pornographic images here. I thought that the Victorian era had long gone, but it sure hasn't.

Oh, there's a time and a place for everything. (As it says in Ecclesiastes.)

There is still a privacy aspect to the subject as well.

 

[abide]

Oh, there's a time and a place for everything. (As it says in Ecclesiastes.)

There is still a privacy aspect to the subject as well.[/QUOTE]

I remembered you made the above statement to my post, when I asked if your spouse was in jail and the prison was offering conjugal visits if you would go.



All the best to you Farouk..

 

[farouk]

Oh, there's a time and a place for everything. (As it says in Ecclesiastes.)

There is still a privacy aspect to the subject as well.[/QUOTE]

I remembered you made the above statement to my post, when I asked if your spouse was in jail and the prison was offering conjugal visits if you would go.



All the best to you Farouk..

Just an observation ...

 

[abide]

Just an observation ...

 

[farouk]

 

[Loon Watchman]

i think in some ways we have things backwards. before there was ever a physical creation, there was a spirit realm. the things of the physical realm are, in many ways, a shadow or type of things in the spirit. that's why (imo), after speaking at length re: husband/wife relationships, paul says that he is really, primarily speaking about Christ and His church:

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery - but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

in certain ways, the natural is just a metaphor for the things of the spirit. c.s. lewis said that we live in the "shadowlands" and that the things we perceive as real (in physical creation) are really just shadows cast by the true light of heaven. part of the problem, i think, is that we tend to read the bible anthropomorphically, and project our non-spiritual human experience into spiritual realities.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways ,"
declares the LORD. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts."
(Isaiah 55:8-9)

i think there is much truth in this. and we blush sometimes when we discover sexual/romantic imagery in the bible, but that is because we tend to drag the biblical writing down to our limited, tainted experiences of sex and romance, but we really need to see that the first and most real pleasure and intimacy is of the spirit -- and we need rather to elevate the possibilities of human romance and sexual pleasure to something much more wonderful, beautiful and holy, since it is a type and shadow of the true intimacy in the spirit, and meant to point us back to God.

and there are so many examples of this in the scriptures: Yahweh being the husband of Israel, Hosea and his unfaithful wife, Jesus and His Bride, the Song of Songs, the idea that sin is "conceived", idolatry being equated to adultery, the great whore, etc.

In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore. (Psalm 16:11)

 

[abide]

i think in some ways we have things backwards. before there was ever a physical creation, there was a spirit realm. the things of the physical realm are, in many ways, a shadow or type of things in the spirit. that's why (imo), after speaking at length re: husband/wife relationships, paul says that he is really, primarily speaking about Christ and His church:

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery - but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

in certain ways, the natural is just a metaphor for the things of the spirit. c.s. lewis said that we live in the "shadowlands" and that the things we perceive as real (in physical creation) are really just shadows cast by the true light of heaven. part of the problem, i think, is that we tend to read the bible anthropomorphically, and project our non-spiritual human experience into spiritual realities.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways ,"
declares the LORD. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts."
(Isaiah 55:8-9)

i think there is much truth in this. and we blush sometimes when we discover sexual/romantic imagery in the bible, but that is because we tend to drag the biblical writing down to our limited, tainted experiences of sex and romance, but we really need to see that the first and most real pleasure and intimacy is of the spirit -- and we need rather to elevate the possibilities of human romance and sexual pleasure to something much more wonderful, beautiful and holy, since it is a type and shadow of the true intimacy in the spirit, and meant to point us back to God.

and there are so many examples of this in the scriptures: Yahweh being the husband of Israel, Hosea and his unfaithful wife, Jesus and His Bride, the Song of Songs, the idea that sin is "conceived", idolatry being equated to adultery, the great whore, etc.

In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore. (Psalm 16:11)

Your point is well taken and I believe that after salvation...sex within the confines of marriage is the most beautiful of all the things that God made;)...God made everything and said it was GOOD[/C and that included sex.. with a man and a woman..anything other than that is