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The Sounding of an Alarm

turnorburn

turnorburn

Member
When they started this movement they said it was making Gods word easier to understand??

"O Lucifer, son of the morning" - The Sounding of an Alarm

By Floyd Nolen Jones.

In the King James Bible, Isaiah 14:12, 15 reads:

How are thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
...Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell.

However, the New International Version pens:

How you have fallen from heaven O morning star, son of the dawn
...but you are brought down to the grave.

Indeed, the New American Standard and all the modern versions read almost exactly like the NIV (except the NKJV). Yet historically Isaiah 14 has been cited throughout the Church as the singular biography and identification of Lucifer.

In verse twelve of the King James, Lucifer is in heaven; in verse fifteen Satan is in hell, and the continuing context establishes that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same being. The new versions have removed the name "Lucifer" thereby eliminating the only reference to his true identity in the entire Bible – yet the change in these versions is not the result of translation from the Hebrew language.

The Hebrew here is helel, ben shachar, which translates "Lucifer, son of the morning" (as is found in all the old English translations written before 1611 when the KJB was published). The NIV, NASB et al. read as though the Hebrew was kokab shachar, ben shachar or "morning star, son of the dawn" (or "son of the morning"). But not only is the Hebrew word for star (kokab) nowhere to be found in the text, "morning" appears only once as given in the KJB – not twice as the modern versions indicate. Moreover, the word kokab is translated as "star" dozens of other times by the translators of these new "bibles". Their editors also know that kokab boqer is "morning star" for it appears in plural form in Job 38:7 (i.e., morning stars). Had the Lord intended "morning star" in Isaiah 14, He could have eliminated any confusion by repeating kokab boqer there. God's selection of helel (Hebrew for Lucifer) is unique as it appears nowhere else in the Old Testament.

Moreover, Revelation 22:16 (also Rev 2:28 and 2Peter 1:19) declares unequivocally that Jesus Christ is the "morning star" or "day star" (2Peter 1:19, cp. Luke 1:78; Mal. 4:2), meaning the sun – not the planet Venus.

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the
churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Thus it must be understood that the identification of Lucifer as being the morning star does not find its roots in the Hebrew O.T., but from classical mythology and witchcraft where he is connected with the planet Venus (the morning "star").

The wording in the modern versions reads such that it appears the fall recorded in Isaiah 14 is speaking of Jesus rather than Lucifer the Devil! The rendering of "morning star" in place of "Lucifer" in this passage must be seen by the Church as nothing less than the ultimate blasphemy. The NASV compounds its role as malefactor by placing 2Peter 1:19 in the reference next to Isaiah 14 thereby solidifying the impression that the passage refers to Christ Jesus rather than Satan. But Lucifer (helel) does not mean "morning star". It is Latin (from
lux or lucis = light, plus fero = to bring) meaning "bright one", "light bearer" or "light bringer". Due to the brightness of the planet Venus, from ancient times the word "Lucifer" (helel) has been associated in secular and/or pagan works with that heavenly body.

Among the modern versions, only the King James (and NKJV) gives proof that Lucifer is Satan. Without its testimony this central vital truth would soon be lost. This fact alone sets the King James Bible apart from and far above all modern would-be rivals. Truly, it is an achievement sui generis. Indeed, the older English versions (the 1560 Geneva etc.) also read "Lucifer".

The clarion has been faithfully and clearly sounded (1Cor.14:8). If the reader is not greatly alarmed by the above, it is pointless for him to continue reading. However, if concern has been aroused as to how this deception has been foisted not only upon the Christian Church, but on the general public as well – read on. The story lies before you.

How does your version read?

http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/jones-o-lucifer.html

 
I normally read the KJV and sometimes the NKJV and looked it up in my KJV (which says Lucifer), then off to the BLB to read the Hebrew and it gave me "heylel" instead of helel, but I know what you meant and are right except for the typo.

I don't read off brand versions (lol) of Scripture but I believe you that they changed it. Kudos to you for bringing this to the attention of board members. That's the kind of stuff that could confuse people a lot.
 
It shows us how 3 small words have been causing so much damage Edward..

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

"hath God said"
 
The King James Bible and other versions: why does it matter?
​
Preachers and teachers across the world will gladly say that the Scriptures are inspired by God — will hold their Bible high in the air and proclaim "this is God's word!" But do they really believe that? Almost every "fundamental" statement of faith reads that God's word is perfect and inspired in the original autographs.

But isn't that a statement of unbelief? What good is God's word if it only exists in manuscripts which no longer exist? Why would God inspire Scripture just to let it wither to dust?

Search this matter out with a desire for the truth. Think for a while about Christ's words: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God... Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Mt 4:4; 24:35)

Here you will find information regarding the King James Bible and the Bible Version issue, a subject that should be of the highest concern to the Christian.

The KJV, originally known as the Authorized Version, first published in the year 1611, is God's word in the English language without error. This site is here to help tell you why.

At one time I read and studied with a New International Version, and I hope that after spending some time learning about this issue that the truth about the multiplicity of versions will be revealed to you as it was to me.

It is important to recognize that this is not a "fundamentalist," "Baptist," or any other "ist" issue. This is a personal heart issue every Christian must settle for themselves. What is your final authority?

Where is a good place to start? If you need convincing that Bible versions don't all say the same thing, start with Westcott and Hort's Magic Marker Binge in the Verse Charts section.

If you are not saved, or unsure about what it means to be saved, see the plan of salvation.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/
 
jasonc said:
Adam must have spoke English as did my hebrew ancestors .
Click to expand...
In order to be saved you must speak and understand the language of ancient Hebrews and Aramaic Greeks, neither of which are in operations today.

I'll pass. Got a hard enuf time with english.

The entire matter of "Lucifer" is found by one citing in the scriptures. THEREFORE it is somewhat hollow to base anything solid on that singularly deployed term, without the standard method of verifications, 2 or 3 citings from within the scriptures. I can't put much credence on that term as a stand alone reference. But totally agree it speaks and applies to Satan, which is easily derived from immediate context, that being, it's a parable. There are 3 parable components. Gods Word, man and the devil(s.) Mark 4:13-15. To understand "all" parables we need only to understand the one Jesus gave us to understand them all.
 
I have faith that God was able to get the right words into my hands. Someone stuck a king Jimmy book in my hands when I was about 12 or 14, so I figure that it must be the right one, especially when teamed up with the blue letter Bible online, which allows word studies into the original language, so I'm good. :study
 
Bible Version Verse Comparison Charts
What's in your Bible?

One of the fundamental deceptions being promoted by modern Bible publishers is that the new Bibles are merely in different styles of writing; that they are simply easier to read than the KJV; that nothing is being removed or changed in God's word.

There are many problems with these claims. Here we will focus on the claim that "all versions really say the same thing."

Why is this important? It is simple: if two books say different things, or if two books say inherently contradictory things, or if of two books one says more than the other, they cannot both be God's word. This is simple, basic logic. To say otherwise is to accuse the Holy Spirit of doublespeak.

There are many, many reasons for the differences we are about to examine. One of the primary reasons for these differences is that the underlying original-language text of the Bible that was used for 1800 years has been replaced by modern scholarship with a text that was assembled in the nineteenth century. There are several articles on this website describing this fact and these competing texts (their sources, history, and content), and you are encouraged to read them.

But the purpose of these comparisons is mainly to show you that anyone telling you there is no substantive difference between the KJV and modern Bibles is either ignorant or intentionally deceiving you. You simply cannot see the differences and honestly say they do not exist!

Do these verse charts in some way prove that the KJV is perfect? Of course not, and they are not meant to. What these charts will do is stir you to study. When you see glaring differences between Bible versions that create shrouds of doubt surrounding the veracity of sola scriptura, you should want to know why these differences exist. I do believe that the very nature of the differences can convince someone that the modern Bibles are corrupt, but that is not the primary goal here. The goal is to prove to you that all Bibles do not say the same thing.

 
I love this link which has the Hebrew and Greek numbers (as links) displayed above the words and verses -
http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew 1:1

I used to have a program like it but now am on a chrome book which doesn't support it :sad

It's surprising to me, taking into consideration the verses in Revelation 12 about that olde dragon and serpent called devil and Satan/adversary - verses 3,4 & 9.

In those verses is, his tail drew a third of the stars.. and end of Revelation chapter one says about stars as metaphor, the stars are angels.

Another translation (besides the loss of Heylel) which bothers me, is how Sheol "where there is no doing nor thought" became "hell". And Jesus likely spoke Aramaic, but the Greek of course has its hades myth, so I have to wonder how this too has colored things.

I do think the original words used by God in His inspiration originally - "all the scripture, God inspired" are very important and informative. The world over was saturated with the pagan mythology (still is) in its various languages after Babel Tower, and I can't help but figure the pagan world view could have been present in minds of translators, both today and yesteryear.. So I am of the opinion we should aLways be good "Bereans" and search the scriptures diligently concerning all things and all doctrines, no matter how new or old they might be. And to me an important part of it is those original words - the Hebrew and Greek - and even the Greek with an understanding that the mindset still would have been Hebrew..

I like to read many versions, tho nkj is the main one.. I figure just like all teachers and doctrines have their accurate and their inaccurate, so do the translations.. And it behooves us to rightly divide by context and the Bible interprets itself/ a balance of all pertaining verses , and by researching the original words. And of course prayer!

God bless.. :)
 
From Isaiah 14:12
H1966

Original: הילל
Transliteration: hêylêl
Phonetic: hay-lale'
BDB Definition: Lucifer = " light-bearer"
shining one, morning star, Lucifer
of the king of Babylon and Satan (figuratively)
(TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon
Origin: from H1984 (in the sense of brightness)
TWOT entry: 499a
Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine
Strong's Definition: From H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star: - lucifer.
 
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