The Spiritual and Physical Aspects of Salvation

[Robert Pate]

The Bible is a spiritual book that was written by Christians for Christians. Those that wrote the Bible were indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many don't understand the Bible simply because they are not indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many religions have writings other than the Bible. The Mormon religion has written their own Bible, "The Book of Mormon". Calvinists have their own writings called "The Cannons of Dort". Catholics also have their own writings from "The Council of Trent". The Jehovah witnesses have "The Watch Tower". The reason that these religions have their own writings is because they don't understand the Bible.

Isaiah wrote, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts" Isaiah 55:8-9.

It is not a good idea to add our thoughts and our words ahead of God's word. The Lord has given us a book it is our responsibility to read it and understand it. If you don't understand it the problem is not with the book, it may be that you are unsaved and do not have the Holy Spirit.

THE SPIRITUAL GOSPEL.
The Gospel is very spiritual. God does not see things the way that we see them. As far as God is concerned Jesus Christ has defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Physically, this has not happened yet. Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ" Galatians 1:20. Was Paul really crucified with Christ? Spiritually he was, but not physically. Paul wrote, "And has raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2:6. Again, this is spiritual and not physical.

The spiritual always takes precedence over the physical because the spiritual is how God sees it. If the Bible says, "You are complete in Christ" Colossians 2:10. The Lord expects you to believe it. We believe it when we trust in Christ alone for our salvation and not in a religion. Trying to make yourself complete "In Christ" through works, laws and religion is not of the faith.

 

[Rookie]

I will ask you for the third time, can someone who lives in habitual sin go to heaven simply because they say Jesus? Because Hebrews 10:26-30, Matthew 7:21-23, says otherwise.

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” - Hebrews 10:26-30

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ - Matthew 7:21-23

It is possible to profess God but not truly mean it:

“’These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." - Matthew 5:8

The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught. - Isaiah 29:13

Are you here to simply pursue that you point and your perspective is the only one that is right, are you here just to trigger the same people who refute you, or are you here to gain understanding and pursue Jesus?

 

[Robert Pate]

I will ask you for the third time, can someone who lives in habitual sin go to heaven simply because they say Jesus? Because Hebrews 10:26-30, Matthew 7:21-23, says otherwise.

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” - Hebrews 10:26-30

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ - Matthew 7:21-23

It is possible to profess God but not truly mean it:

“’These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." - Matthew 5:8

The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught. - Isaiah 29:13

Are you here to simply pursue that you point and your perspective is the only one that is right, are you here just to trigger the same people who refute you, or are you here to gain understanding and pursue Jesus?

Christians that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit as a general rule will not sin. The Holy Spirit is a restraint but not a guarantee that they will not sin.

It appears to me that you are concerned about sin. I am not concerned about sin, because I believe that God has dealt with it in Jesus Christ. All sin has been atoned for. 1 John 2:2. Nor am I under the law or subject to it. To be under the law will promote sin, Romans 7:8. Paul said that we need to be dead to the law and alive to Christ, Romans 6:11.

I have been a Christian for over 50 years and have studied with some of the most prominent Christian scholars of our time. My objective on this Forum is to teach the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law. As far as my salvation goes, God ALREADY sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. I don't have to pursue Jesus, I already have him.

 

[Rookie]

Christians that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit as a general rule will not sin. The Holy Spirit is a restraint but not a guarantee that they will not sin.

It appears to me that you are concerned about sin. I am not concerned about sin, because I believe that God has dealt with it in Jesus Christ. All sin has been atoned for. 1 John 2:2. Nor am I under the law or subject to it. To be under the law will promote sin, Romans 7:8. Paul said that we need to be dead to the law and alive to Christ, Romans 6:11.

I have been a Christian for over 50 years and have studied with some of the most prominent Christian scholars of our time. My objective on this Forum is to teach the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law. As far as my salvation goes, God ALREADY sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. I don't have to pursue Jesus, I already have him.

I know all sin has been atoned for and I am fully acquainted with how Christ said us. We are justified by grace through faith. The problem with our society is that out of the 2 billion + professing believers most of them profess Christ but do not truly know him. Hence Revelation chapters 1-3. One common interpretation is that the seven churches are a represented as the whole church or complete church. As 7 represents perfection and completeness. Jesus praised Philadelphia (coincidence we have a city named that?) and Smyrna but condemned/called to repent the rest for their lawless or backsliding/evil-tolerating acts (which if we do the math more than 70% of "Christians" represented by the 5 condemned churches). This wasn't toward unbelievers, but believer since unbelievers aren't typically called the Church by Christ. Matthew 7:21-23 is geared toward believers as unbelievers don't typically call Jesus "Lord,Lord" or cast out demons and no miracles in his name.

Also the phrase "I don't need to pursue Jesus, I already have him" can be easily misinterpreted and rebuttled because Jesus didn't say "Deny yourself, take up your cross and then you have me, but deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me." Paul didn't say, "I already reached the mark of the high calling which is in Christ Jesus, but I press forward toward the mark of the high calling which is in Christ Jesus".

As the melancholic passage Romans 3:10-17, we are told no one is righteous no not one, no is seeks God not even one. So to assert that we've already made it is not very accurate as this is a life-long journey and no one has arrived.

And yes I do have a problem with sin, as it's done the most damage to me and everyone I know and the whole creation throughout human history. So we should leave zero room for sin. But I see your point that with the Holy Spirit, we (although not guaranteed) will not habitually sin. Which I agree. My point is that Jesus didn't come to do away with the law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17) so faith isn't the absence of work as it takes the work of having faith to have faith. Believing in Christ is an action, but faith produces a new kind of work which is empowered by the Holy Spirit to will what he wills, want what he wants, love what he loves, and even if we won't be perfectly sinless we can most definitely each and every day sin less.

 

[Robert Pate]

I know all sin has been atoned for and I am fully acquainted with how Christ said us. We are justified by grace through faith. The problem with our society is that out of the 2 billion + professing believers most of them profess Christ but do not truly know him. Hence Revelation chapters 1-3. One common interpretation is that the seven churches are a represented as the whole church or complete church. As 7 represents perfection and completeness. Jesus praised Philadelphia (coincidence we have a city named that?) and Smyrna but condemned/called to repent the rest for their lawless or backsliding/evil-tolerating acts (which if we do the math more than 70% of "Christians" represented by the 5 condemned churches). This wasn't toward unbelievers, but believer since unbelievers aren't typically called the Church by Christ. Matthew 7:21-23 is geared toward believers as unbelievers don't typically call Jesus "Lord,Lord" or cast out demons and no miracles in his name.

Also the phrase "I don't need to pursue Jesus, I already have him" can be easily misinterpreted and rebuttled because Jesus didn't say "Deny yourself, take up your cross and then you have me, but deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me." Paul didn't say, "I already reached the mark of the high calling which is in Christ Jesus, but I press forward toward the mark of the high calling which is in Christ Jesus".

As the melancholic passage Romans 3:10-17, we are told no one is righteous no not one, no is seeks God not even one. So to assert that we've already made it is not very accurate as this is a life-long journey and no one has arrived.

And yes I do have a problem with sin, as it's done the most damage to me and everyone I know and the whole creation throughout human history. So we should leave zero room for sin. But I see your point that with the Holy Spirit, we (although not guaranteed) will not habitually sin. Which I agree. My point is that Jesus didn't come to do away with the law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17) so faith isn't the absence of work as it takes the work of having faith to have faith. Believing in Christ is an action, but faith produces a new kind of work which is empowered by the Holy Spirit to will what he wills, want what he wants, love what he loves, and even if we won't be perfectly sinless we can most definitely each and every day sin less.

It appears to me that you have embraced some sort of a holiness doctrine where the burden of salvation is on you and your performance. I have been there until I discovered the liberating power of the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the Gospel we are ALREADY complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In the Gospel we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:17-18. In the Gospel we are ALREADY seated in heavenly places in Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:6. In the Gospel we have ALREADY entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

People like yourself that are religious are trying to do in their flesh what God has ALREADY done for us in Jesus Christ. It is only when you become dead to the law that you will be able to be alive to Christ. Paul said, "For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10. The law does not produce righteousness. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:8. Worse yet, the law angers God, Romans 4:15.

 

[Rookie]

It appears to me that you have embraced some sort of a holiness doctrine where the burden of salvation is on you and your performance. I have been there until I discovered the liberating power of the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the Gospel we are ALREADY complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In the Gospel we have ALREADY been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:17-18. In the Gospel we are ALREADY seated in heavenly places in Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:6. In the Gospel we have ALREADY entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

People like yourself that are religious are trying to do in their flesh what God has ALREADY done for us in Jesus Christ. It is only when you become dead to the law that you will be able to be alive to Christ. Paul said, "For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10. The law does not produce righteousness. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:8. Worse yet, the law angers God, Romans 4:15.

Once again, straw man fallacy. Why are you trying to but me in a category that I'm not in? Please stop reading my messages with a preconceived notion and read it for what it is. I said multiple times that I REJECT works-based salvation.

Please, read my message for what it is, I don't understand how much clearer can i make it.

 

[Robert Pate]

Once again, straw man fallacy. Why are you trying to but me in a category that I'm not in? Please stop reading my messages with a preconceived notion and read it for what it is. I said multiple times that I REJECT works-based salvation.

Please, read my message for what it is, I don't understand how much clearer can i make it.

I understand you better now.

 

[Rookie]

I understand you better now.

And to be honest, I can't not admit that I've struggled with works-based salvation and at times it tries to haunt me. So your discernment is definitely God-given and on point.

Thank you, you've taught me something.

 

[Robert Pate]

And to be honest, I can't not admit that I've struggled with works-based salvation and at times it tries to haunt me. So your discernment is definitely God-given and on point.

Thank you, you've taught me something.

I believe in a works based salvation, Christ's work. Jesus is the one that fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18. Jesus is the one that atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. All that Jesus is, and all that Jesus did was for our justification and our salvation.