The time of the Great trib is WHEN?????Berean and Solo!!!!!

[irishrain]

Hi Noble

Well, the days were shortened, yes, to ....well hard to say. Was it shortened after Matthew describes it in 24?We see a 3.5 year mess talked about, but maybe that was shotened to ....well maybe.

You have listed some thing s that happen but what year do theyhappen?

You have to go by events that happen around the world as they line up with prophesy.

What are these events of these last days?

Matt 24:1-51
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
3 questions

Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Who? Man
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
They claim to Christians, call themselves preachersl
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Amos 8:11; "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, But of hearing the words of the Lord:

These "earthquakes" can be a shaking of the land, a shaking of people and any other living creature, and a shaking of the air.

The affects and effects of the great flood (tsunami) resulting from the earthquake in December 2004, is still ongoing.

And, this "fear" has been "undulating", and "growing greater" among the people, and all living creature, who have been directly affected by Hurricane Katrina (August/September 2005), and this ongoing aftermath.

Where are we in GODS HOLY Plan and sequence of events for these last days?
Matt 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

There still yet can be even more great disasters, calamities, and plagues.
This is ongoing, Hurricane Katrina may not be the last of the great disasters, calamities, and plagues.

Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

"deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you" is speaking of and concerning the "Christian nations".
This is in regards to the nations who carry CHRIST'S name ... the "Christian nations", against whom terrorists who have formed a confederacy with Gog (Ezekiel 38), and will "afflicted, and shall kill" as many as they can.

Matt 24:
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
vs 4 deception is what we have to worry about.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matt 24:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand.
stand in the holy place (Jerusalem)2 Ths 2:1-9

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. KJVarms shall stand, those that work for the Polictical Beast system.
Whats our sacrifice today? Christ became our blood sacrifice for all times.
How do you honor him today? Don't you take communion with him?
Who's they? Its Satan's children the tares.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. KJV

Even within the prophesy given in the Book of Daniel, by GOD through HIS servant Daniel, we can see that the actual amount of time, in which the fallen angels and then Satan are in the sight of earthly flesh men, is only a very short time... 'forty five days.

But, all the other things and events which lead into the arrival of the fallen angels is written "a thousand two hundred and ninety days" in the prophesy in Daniel.
Matthew 24:16 continues the sequence of events which began before the fallen angels arrive.
Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
with child is Jesus is speaking in a spiritual sense about those that that become impregnated with the mark of the beast
give suck means nurseing along Satan's evil system.

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
harvest is not in the winter!
Does this remind you of untimely figs? Rev 6:13 Don't be harvested out of season.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
This speaks of the events which occur a short time before the fallen angels arrive in the sight of earthly flesh men.

These days which shall be shortened, for the Elect's sake, refers to the days of great calamities, disasters, plagues, attacks by terrorists, failing of the economy worldwide, wounding of the side of the U.N. when the three Christian ribs pull out of the "beastly body" of that governmental alliance, Dan 7

Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
The word of "eagles", should be translated "vultures". The carcass are the spiritual dead, and these vultures of Satan, the Antichrist will feed on every spiritual dead person on the face of the earth. Rev 13:8

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
7th trumph

Matt 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
It is near, even at the doors", should read, "He is near, even at the doors." When you see the Antichrist stand, and proclaim himself to be God, and you are still in your flesh body, and the sun, moon and stars are still in the sky, know that the coming of the True Christ is very near.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
This generation" is the parable of the fig tree, that was alive at the planting of the fig tree in 1948. It is the generation that we are living in today.
Israel became a nation in 1948. Which is Jer 24. This is not talking about the House of Israel those lost tribes.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
We do know the season, and have been in it since 1948.

What are these last days like?
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Noe=Noah in Hebrew
These final days of this earth will be exactly as it was in the days that Noah was on the earth, just prior to his entering into the ark. To find out what happened in that day, read Genesis 6.

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus is telling them that it is not going to be any difference now, as it was in Noah's day, for you are going to have the fallen angels down their with you then. When Satan is caste to the earth, all of Satan's many fallen angels will be caste out with him.

Rev 12:7-9;"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[7] "And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven." [8] "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

What will the people of the earth be doing at this time?
Remember JESUS warning about deception? vs4,11
Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Taken by deception, because of the famine for truth. They didn't know that there are 2 JESUS, and which comes 1st.

Matt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Goodman in Christ, thief is Satan after your soul.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matt 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. KJV

Lord is Christ the Lord, Amen!

 

[noblej6]

hi Irish,

,Actually, I don't have to look around at world events of today because it fits in well as written. I'll show you what I mean using Matthew 24.

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

Antichrists were alive and well at that time.(first century)
1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

This verse shows antichrists are already present and besides is yet another hint that that time was the last hour....

6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Wars are going on somewhere all the time, I assume from 30 AD to 70 AD they would hear of some dispute somewhere or another.

7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

In reality that is one of the only times since creation that ALL NATIONS would be at the same place. I knowe of no other example.

There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Here I have to rely on the history from Josephus who tells us that the starvation was so bad during the rebellion of Judea that mothers ate their own babies.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

This was the case for Jesus apostle, many were crucified at that time and as well, no other group of people fit the word 'you' in that sentence Jesus spoke.
10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

That happened back then as well.
11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,

Back to the antichrist idea, false prophets were plentiful then. I gotta admit there is a lot of false prophets on TV today as well, but back then would still qualify.

13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

That will forever be the case. The 'end' here meaning death. If a person doesn't believe when they die it looks like a difficult road to change lanes on to me????

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Colossians 1
23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Many say this didn't cover the entire world. Well, simply put Paul said it covered all creatures under Heaven. No matter what is said, rationalized, compared, or anylyised...Col 1:23 still says what it says.

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Danielâ€â€let the reader understandâ€â€

The simplest here is to compare the verses as Luke recorded them and the exactmess of the pregnant mothers statemnet and the fleeing of the people don't leave any doubt in my mind.

Plus we have this:

The abomination has to appear in the holy place...
Here is a Holy Place of the first century.
Hebrews 9
2A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand, the table and the consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place.

That Holy Place ceased to exist in 70 AD.

The people are told to flee Jude, both in Matthew and in Luke....Judea ceased to exist in 70 AD as well.

23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the electâ€â€if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.

I always like to consider how this can possibly be. At the time of this great tribulation, everybody is going to be a bit aware of it, I would think and the Christ appears immediately after it....SO at that time if anybody says to you ,"There He is," it really isn't true!!! Don't believe it.

Yet scripture tells us every eye will se Him!!!

Answer: When people experience that second coming of Christ, they are dead.

I'll leave of here, I gotta run. Thanks for reading,

noble6

 

[Darrell dunn]

I just read the last page of post here, and have come to the conclusion that IF ALL OF YOU ARE LEAD BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD ,THEN GOD IS A GOD OF CONFUSION.

You have made scrambled eggs of the scriptures. The only thing missing is jake 99 .

If you are lead by the Spirit, and are filled with the Spirit, Then how far away can the answers be?

LETS GET FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT AND FOLLOW HIM.

 

[noblej6]

Hi Darrell,

Who is this addressed to , really?

AND what does this tell you about receiving the truth from the Holy Spirit?

Why don't you jump in and make points as you feel necessary?

noble6

 

[Darrell dunn]

26 years ago at age 37, I started praying that the Lord show himself to me.
the story posted else where on Forum.

After he told me to read scripture, HE SAID DO NOT, get involved with any organized group , and not to go to any church now.

I had not gone to church for about 25 years before, so I didn't know what they were teaching.

Now after 26 years of the Lord's teaching I know why He said not to get involved with any one.

And what I post comes straight from Him.

What I said is that all of this information was not Spirit inspired.

The letters to the churches talks about the false or bad teaching that has crepted into the church.

And I am doing what the Spirit said to do, be Hot or Cold.

 

[noblej6]

Hi Darrell,

The letters to the churches talk about other things too. Since the spirit guided you somewhat on this topic, maybe you can share what the meaning is here.

Jesus instructed John to write to the angel of the church of Thyatira. There was a church at Thyatira in biblical times In fact in Acts 16 we can read of a woman from there.......

.....One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.

She was a follower and believer. So we know that there were those who should have seen this letter written to Thyatira at that time. In fact it had to be then or sometime in the past because there is no Thyatira now. It hasn't existed for awhile.

Now Jesus wrote and told those at Thyatira this:

24Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): 25Only hold on to what you have until I come.

Lydia is one of those who should have seen that letter, if not Lydia it had to be somebody who existed long ago. So what I want to know is did Jesus keep His word and 'come' to those people of Thyatira or are they still holding?

noble6

 

[Darrell dunn]

Hi Darrell,

The letters to the churches talk about other things too. Since the spirit guided you somewhat on this topic, maybe you can share what the meaning is here.

Jesus instructed John to write to the angel of the church of Thyatira. There was a church at Thyatira in biblical times In fact in Acts 16 we can read of a woman from there.......

.....One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.

She was a follower and believer. So we know that there were those who should have seen this letter written to Thyatira at that time. In fact it had to be then or sometime in the past because there is no Thyatira now. It hasn't existed for awhile.

Now Jesus wrote and told those at Thyatira this:

24Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): 25Only hold on to what you have until I come.

Lydia is one of those who should have seen that letter, if not Lydia it had to be somebody who existed long ago. So what I want to know is did Jesus keep His word and 'come' to those people of Thyatira or are they still holding?

noble6

After reading your post I asked the Lord.

This is the way that He told me.
The letter was addressed to a church.
But was never sent as a single letter to that church.
But was meant to the whole church over time, and specifically for the church of today.
For in the church of today we have all of the deferent groups within the whole.

Altho the overall picture looks like the church of Laodicea to God.

So I would strongly recommend that everyone get with God and check what the teachings are in the group that you meet with.

 

[noblej6]

Hi Darrell,

After reading your post I asked the Lord.

This is the way that He told me.

I think you posed the question to Him wrong.

The letter was read by let's say your great great grandfather. He would have read it because it is right there in the bible.

So now it is your great great grandfather who reads"hold on to what you have until I come."

So did Jesus 'come' to your GG grandfather or is he still holding? AND how come Lydia from Thyatira couldn't see the letter or didn't see the letter. Wasn't Lydia part of the church over time? Is she still holding or did Jesus come?

noble6

 

[Vic C.]

The way I understand it is, from the time one dies 'til the time they are resurrected will be like "the twinkling of an eye". I believe we are "asleep" in our grave, with no recollection of being dead or anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5) until our soul is reunited with our spirit and glorified bodies.

 

[noblej6]

Hi Vic,

The way I understand it is, from the time one dies 'til the time they are resurrected will be like "the twinkling of an eye". I believe we are "asleep" in our grave, with no recollection of being dead or anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5) until our soul is reunited with our spirit and glorified bodies.

Yes, I am aware of that understanding. However, I've always wondered if it fits this couple of verses?

John 11
25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Martha is going to physically die , yet she will continue to 'live'. That isn't what I would say Ecclesiastes 9:5 is talking about, do you? Jesus told her she would NEVER die. I take that to mean she would never sleep, she would never lay in the dust aware of nothing. I take this to mean that the parousia takes place in Martha's lifetime and after that the 'sleep' thing is no longer necessary..

Now I totally agree with you that the resurrection is in a twinkling of an eye alright however I also have to hold to the written word at 1 Cor 15:51.

51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

The mystery is that we will not all sleep and that is precisely what Jesus told Martha. What othe way could this be except that the 'life' is the spiritual life in Heaven. The resurrection was instant for Martha at her physical death and she went to Heaven at that time to 'live' on in her spiritual body promised in 1 Cor 15. She went to her permanent , eternal house in Heaven at the time of her physicl death. She died a natural being and was born again a spiritual entity.

Okay, that's how I see it, but you feel she has to wait for a resurrection. Show me the verses you use for that again, like I said it takes me forever to get the drift of somebody else's idea.

Maybe point out where you feel my idea falls short to, that may help me see your way quicker.

noble6

 

[Darrell dunn]

Noble

It makes no deference if Vic is right and we sleep till he comes.
Or we have gone to heaven, we would be on Gods time then, 1day is as a thousand years, and if we were aware of time passing it would only be 2 days.

But there is no night in heaven so it will be one long day.

There is no time in heaven, only here. That is how Jesus is the beginning and the end all at once.

The first and second resurrections happen over a 7,000 year time frame here on earth, but in heaven it is as if all at once.

 

[Vic C.]

... But there is no night in heaven so it will be one long day.

There is no time in heaven, only here. That is how Jesus is the beginning and the end all at once.

The first and second resurrections happen over a 7,000 year time frame here on earth, but in heaven it is as if all at once.

Thanks Darrell, you summed it up well.

Noble, I think we have strayed into a subject that is best left to the Apologetics and Theology Forum. That is where we have been discussing things like immortality of the soul, etc. Sorry I brought it up and sorry for sidetracking the thread. :