The Tribulation is Coming!!

[Elvispelvis]

THE TRIBULATION: WHY IS IT COMING?

Destroy the fat and the strong of Israel Ezek 34:16

To feed Israel with judgment

Isa 17:4-11 Because thou hast forgotten the God of thy salvation, and hast not been mindful of the Rock of thy strength Dan 9:24
To seal up the vision and prophecy Dan 9:24

To anoint the most Holy Rev 7:9,13,14
To bring people to Jesus Christ Rev 14:12
To execute judgment Jude 15

To convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds, which they have ungodly committed Isa 13:9

To destroy the sinners (out of the land) Isa 13:11
To punish the world for their evil and the wicked for their iniquity Lk 21:24
To bring to an end the times of the Gentiles (Until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled) Isa 61:2

To proclaim...the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn Deut 4:29,30

To cause the Jewish people to seek Jesus and to be obedient to His voice Ezek 36:22,23
,br> For God?s holy name sake, to sanctify My great name Lk 21:22
That all things which are written may be fulfilled

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Tribulation has started already, and is about to end with the second coming of Christ.

 

[smaller]

IF TRIBULATION is coming we should be THANKFUL.

We will NOT enter the Kingdom of God without much TRIBULATION.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

God has promised a ROLE REVERSAL in these matters at the end, in the GREAT TRIBULATION.

The tribulation that the DEVILS have put upon MAN will be TURNED UPON THEM at the end unto their DESTRUCTION on that GREAT DAY OF WRATH.

s

 

[Jus10]

IF TRIBULATION is coming we should be THANKFUL.

We will NOT enter the Kingdom of God without much TRIBULATION.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

God has promised a ROLE REVERSAL in these matters at the end, in the GREAT TRIBULATION.

The tribulation that the DEVILS have put upon MAN will be TURNED UPON THEM at the end unto their DESTRUCTION on that GREAT DAY OF WRATH.

s

Not to nit-pick, but I believe this is a Bible verse that is not in context to the Great Tribulation, but is refering to Paul's recent stoning, assuring followers this is a part of our walk with Christ.

We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words. (1 Thes 4:13-18)

This passage paints the picture that those alive in Christ will not be here to suffer. If we are in the Great Tribulation right now, the Body of Christ shoudn't be here right now.

 

[smaller]

Not to nit-pick, but I believe this is a Bible verse that is not in context to the Great Tribulation, but is refering to Paul's recent stoning, assuring followers this is a part of our walk with Christ.

All believers, IF they are so, have tribulation, and there is cause both internal and external for those matters.

The final or Great Tribulation is when the workings of EVIL are turned upon itself in DIVINE RETRIBUTION. In this way we should not fear it, but be thankful.

We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words. (1 Thes 4:13-18)

This passage paints the picture that those alive in Christ will not be here to suffer. If we are in the Great Tribulation right now, the Body of Christ shoudn't be here right now.

Well, that's depending upon ones take on the matters. I do still possibly lean toward a pre-trib scenario. But having studied the matter for some 3 decades now, I do remain somewhat non-committed to any particular slant. I'd obviously LIKE pre-trib, but I also know that God will DESTROY the man of sinning lawlessness by the BRIGHTNESS of His coming, and BEFORE we are taken, so there is cause to see that we will still be here WHEN that time arrives.

I also expect to hear the cry of PEACE and SAFETY prior to as well, and I haven't heard that in my lifetime, yet. When I hear that, it will be a definite SIGN of that ENDing. I expect that cry to be heard on the streets throughout the world. We may be inching closer to that daily, buy the looks of deterioration in the financial realms, and the efforts of worldly powers to 'hold things together' and wrap it all up in one big control package with the guarantees of peace and safety.

s

 

[Jus10]

Show me some scripture (in context) that lines up with a post trib rapture. You can give your opinion all you want but without scripture to back it up that's all it is.

 

[smaller]

Show me some scripture (in context) that lines up with a post trib rapture. You can give your opinion all you want but without scripture to back it up that's all it is.

2 Thes. 2...what comes first?

The destruction of the man of sin by the Lord at his arrival.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Habbakuk 3 is even more intense, but substantially move 'veiled.'

Most of these matters are buried in allegory, parables and figures. Those not used to studying and reading the texts in that way of correlations will probably never understand any of it. As I said, I do remain uncommitted to any certain set of 'rules' as there are just too many interconnected scriptures from cover to cover to sew it all together, but it does start to take some shapes. Also for the record I hold about 'zero' literal interpretations of these matters because most of them revolve around Gods dealings with entities that can not be seen with physical eyes. These must therefore be understood by association. The way of HEBRON (associations.)

I can assure myself that it ain't gonna be like H. Lindsey or any other popular writer depicts. If there were one reason NOT to go pre-trib, it is because of it's popularity in the christian culture and the easy out method.

Were I to excuse ONE CHURCH from this forray it would be the church of Philadelphia, the church of BROTHERLY LOVE who will be 'kept' from the trial coming upon the 'whole earth.'

Rev. 3:
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

This is in fact the only church that is promised A BYE or PASS...from the trial upon the whole world. None of the others are conveyed this.

s

 

[Theofilus]

Show me some scripture (in context) that lines up with a post trib rapture. You can give your opinion all you want but without scripture to back it up that's all it is.

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:4-5)​

The first ressurection takes place after the great tribulation. If all the dead in Christ had risen at the rapture either before the tribulation or in the middle of it, how could this be the first?

 

[Jus10]

2 Thes. 2...what comes first?

The destruction of the man of sin by the Lord at his arrival.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

I may not be a scholar or expert in the area, but I believe this verse is talking about Christ's second coming, which is Him coming to the earth again, not meeting His church in the sky. This is when Christ returns to the chruch. I may be wrong, but that's how I understand the text.

Habbakuk 3 is even more intense, but substantially move 'veiled.'

This is very intense, I have never studied Habbakuk (or even know how to say it... Ha buh cook? Huh back cook?) But where in this, what seems like a psalm, is there a timeline? It talks about judgement but where does it talk about this occuring with the church on earth?

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:4-5)​

The first ressurection takes place after the great tribulation. If all the dead in Christ had risen at the rapture either before the tribulation or in the middle of it, how could this be the first?

As far as the verse itself, looking at the events in the timeline out of all of Revelation, I understand there to be a rapture (Christ meeting His church in the sky), then those left behind are left to withstand the Great Tribulation, which are mentioned in this verse. The first resurrection is for those who have died in Christ, the rapture are for those who were still alive and captured with Christ... again I'm no expert in the matter, but this is how Revelation reads and how I understand it.
I gotta look up some verses I don't know the addresses for, but I'll get to them on my next break here at work.

God bless

 

[smaller]

I may not be a scholar or expert in the area, but I believe this verse is talking about Christ's second coming, which is Him coming to the earth again, not meeting His church in the sky. This is when Christ returns to the chruch. I may be wrong, but that's how I understand the text.

Ah, in the 'double return' camp then? I can't really get there. Paul said what happens 'first,' that being the 'revealing or exposure' of the man of sin and his destruction by the brightness of his coming.

It is said in another way by Paul here:

1 Cor. 13:
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

This is very intense, I have never studied Habbakuk (or even know how to say it... Ha buh cook? Huh back cook?) But where in this, what seems like a psalm, is there a timeline? It talks about judgement but where does it talk about this occuring with the church on earth?

IF Jesus is coming for a SPOTLESS BRIDE it remains MOST likely that the MAN OF SIN will be DESTROYED FIRST as stated by Paul in 2 Thes. None of us currently can make the claim of sinless perfection in the flesh, sin IS connected to the DEVIL, the son of perdition, SATAN. In order for US to be WITHOUT SPOT or BLEMISH that 'working' and it's IMPetus, Satan, MUST be destroyed, and will thusly be destroyed by God in Christ upon His Return.

When Jesus addressed the 7 Churches of Revelation, He addresses the workings of SATAN in various ways IN ALL OF THEM. Satan WILL be destroyed by God in Christ to make the BRIDE SPOTLESS as a reality. We will be instantly changed into our new bodies.

As far as the verse itself, looking at the events in the timeline out of all of Revelation, I understand there to be a rapture (Christ meeting His church in the sky), then those left behind are left to withstand the Great Tribulation, which are mentioned in this verse.

It may be a little more interesting than that. IF it is Satan that is destroyed first, that will pretty much sum up the events, not start them. I would expect to see vastly MORE interesting matters BEFORE the destruction of Satan, as in his REVEALING...and GREAT TRIBULATIONS prior to the evacuation of the Church.

Paul again shows the ELIMINATION OF THE POWER OF DEATH, being swallowed up BY LIFE at the end of 1 Cor. 15 vs. 52 to end of chapter.

The first resurrection is for those who have died in Christ, the rapture are for those who were still alive and captured with Christ... again I'm no expert in the matter, but this is how Revelation reads and how I understand it.
I gotta look up some verses I don't know the addresses for, but I'll get to them on my next break here at work.

I will just say again that I have studied these matters for a considerably long time, read nearly every book available on the subject and EVERY SLANT AND ANGLE therein, and I remain UNcommitted to knowledge of the exactness of these matters. They are VERY complex and that is why there is so much diversity in these matters in understandings.

Even more important is that I have seen fellow believers get TRAPPED into certain viewpoints that they ADAMANTLY defend and use to SEPARATE themselves from other believers, sometimes into their 'own little world' where THEY ALONE can 'supposedly' see the REVELATION meanings. I've witnessed this with my own eyes. It's a truly pitiful PIT.

Therefore I have no desire to FALL into that latter category and use HIS PROMISE to alienate myself from other believers in my adamant demands to force understanding of what is rightfully termed as A MYSTERY, OR to alienate myself from the events themselves IF I remain. I also recognize that IF I have indwelling sin (I DO) and IF that SIN is connected to the DEVIL (it IS) then I can NOT extract that working from the possibility of overwhelming me. There is the CAUTION SIGN for me. I've also read enough psuedopigrapha and extra-biblical stuff to see things that MAY relate to these matters, and they are NOT pretty. There is a great likelihood that EVIL will run totally and completely AMOK in ANY in whom it is found, and that more than anything makes me extremely cautious of thinking the early out is going to happen.

We may very well find ourselves through the entirety of these matters and I do want to make ready, be prepared and to WATCH always. I am not going to hope for the early out.

I am also certain that as events unfold, so will the TEXTS unfold to those who are His. I have not seen this yet, but expect to.

I also believe that Matt. 25 is a depiction of these matters. I know for a fact that believers DO 'goat works.' Some try to put Matt. 25 into a 'later event' post rapture, but if believers DO 'goat works' (they do) it is unlikely that Matt. 25 is speaking of a post rapture event.

I do expect this matter to come as Jesus said in Matt. 25, and in other references such as in the days of Noah or Lot. Quickly and UNEXPECTEDLY and with VIOLENT SEPARATIONS.

There is only going to be ONE LAST SHAKING.

Heb. 12:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.

God removed the physical nation of Israel from Egypt with GREAT signs, wonders and MUCH violence. The writer of Hebrews does correlate the FINAL SHAKING to the FIRST ONE. In this we see HOW DEEP the discovery process in correlations can be. The 'enemies' then literally pursued them/Israel to their DEATHS and were even PROMPTED to do so BY GOD in the 'first evacuation.'

There is just a LOT of information to digest in these matters IF we seach out these correlations. Most views, even ones that I've trailed, are NOT ABLE to crack the SEAL on these matters. I've read decades and CAN NOT sew all these things together. The search is much more fun in any case IF one loves to STUDY His Words.

Rev. 12:
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Even in the terms TIME, TIMES and HALF A TIME or the DIVIDING OF TIME, that statement alone is an immense study, FILLED with mystery. And no, I do NOT believe that means 3 1/2 years.

One single statement CAN change one's entire view, and away from PRE-TRIB:

Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Stopping here for now.

s

 

[Jus10]

Ah, in the 'double return' camp then? I can't really get there. Paul said what happens 'first,' that being the 'revealing or exposure' of the man of sin and his destruction by the brightness of his coming.

The double would make more sense than a "u-turn." The Bible speaks in several scriptures that we will be "snatched up" (by Greek definition) in the air. Pre Trib teaches that Christ and His church will be together in Heaven during the Great Tribulation. His actual "second return" He will come with the saints (the church) to judge.
Post Trib teaches that we will be caught up in heaven, then turned back around to earth. What is the sense in meeting Him in the sky if He's returning to earth? Why not just return to earth for believers and non-believers to see?

It is said in another way by Paul here:

1 Cor. 13:
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.


IF Jesus is coming for a SPOTLESS BRIDE it remains MOST likely that the MAN OF SIN will be DESTROYED FIRST as stated by Paul in 2 Thes. None of us currently can make the claim of sinless perfection in the flesh, sin IS connected to the DEVIL, the son of perdition, SATAN. In order for US to be WITHOUT SPOT or BLEMISH that 'working' and it's IMPetus, Satan, MUST be destroyed, and will thusly be destroyed by God in Christ upon His Return.

Let me get this straight, all of Paul's and Peter's teachings along with the teachings of the gospel that says Jesus died, rose again, conquering death and sparing us from wrath is all void from this one verse?

We are holy through Christ. We have that status through the cross. Though we have flesh and still stumble, in God's eyes we are perfect THROUGH the shed blood of Christ. His blood covers our sin, past, present, and future. God's wrath is spared from those who believe, why would we suffer and endure like those who do not believe during the Great Tribulation? I'm not saying we don't go through tribulations, but the Great Tribulation is meant for those who are not covered in Christ. By believing that our bodies are flesh and tied into the devil, then why did Jesus come in the first place if His work on the cross wasn't to purify us?

By the way you decypher this verse it completely takes focus off Christ's work on the cross. His final word on the cross is tetelesai, translated in the Bible as "it is finished." But that word can also be found on bills in the time of Jesus. Once a bill was 100% paid, tetelestai was written on it that says "you don't owe anymore, transaction complete." Why would Jesus say tetelestai as His last breath on the cross.

"Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe
Sin had left a crimson stain He washed it white as snow."

Through the cross we have the status of being holy and sanctified. This is the whole point of our faith. So if you truely believe our flesh has anything to do with a Post Tribulation, well I'll pray for you. Because according to Jesus word's and acts, I am saved from God's wrath and when God the Father sees me, He sees Jesus instead.

A post Trib rapture, or "catching in the air," voids Jesus work on the cross if you're going to take that verse and apply it the way you did.

 

[watchman F]

The Tribultion is God's last attempt to save as many as possible by the least severe means. You might say...'the Tribulation is pretty severe'', and you would be right, but it gets progressively worse. God wants all to be saved, and the fact is the Church fluroushes in Tribulation. Right now the Church itself is lukewarm, and dead, and it is producing disciples after its own kind. However during the Tribulation most will fallaway, and the remnant of true, faithful, standing firm believers will starts producing disciple after their own kind. So there will be a great harvest during the worse time of all man's history. This is God's plan. Although there is no pretrib rapture the church as we know it now wll disapear, but the good thin is, a new and improved church will rise from the ashes of the falling away. A Church that will not, that cannot be moved. God will shake everything that can be shaken. Is your faith going to be shaken if you find yourself in the midst of Great Tribulation?

 

[watchman F]

Show me some scripture (in context) that lines up with a post trib rapture. You can give your opinion all you want but without scripture to back it up that's all it is.

#1 This has to be a joke right?
#2 This is not a pre vs post trib discussion. However if you re-post this as the op of a new thread, I will most happily take you up on this challenge.

 

[Jus10]

The Tribultion is God's last attempt to save as many as possible by the least severe means. You might say...'the Tribulation is pretty severe'', and you would be right, but it gets progressively worse. God wants all to be saved, and the fact is the Church fluroushes in Tribulation. Right now the Church itself is lukewarm, and dead, and it is producing disciples after its own kind. However during the Tribulation most will fallaway, and the remnant of true, faithful, standing firm believers will starts producing disciple after their own kind. So there will be a great harvest during the worse time of all man's history. This is God's plan. Although there is no pretrib rapture the church as we know it now wll disapear, but the good thin is, a new and improved church will rise from the ashes of the falling away. A Church that will not, that cannot be moved. God will shake everything that can be shaken. Is your faith going to be shaken if you find yourself in the midst of Great Tribulation?

I'm not denying there are people out there who believe they are Christians but who are not. When the rapture occurs and the church is no longer here, these people's faiths will be confirmed because they were told the rapture was coming and missed it.

Sorry for taking us off of subject, but in answer to your question my faith will not be shaken. I stand firm in Christ because eternity is forever, and our time here on earth is a vapor.

Whether we're in the Great Tribulation right now, I don't think so, but I know it is coming. I'm a full believer in exegesis teaching, and that if we dig deep enough all scripture will line up with one train of thought, not three, but so far there are three different ways certain scriptures have be interpretted, so I call myself a "progrssive trib rapture believer." So let's say since "no one knows the day or time" of the Lord's return, and we are captured into heaven with Jesus, praise the Lord. If we are here long enough to see all currencies combined into one, and one man rises to power uniting most countries into one, if we are captured to not endure the next 3 and a half years, praise the Lord. However, if it got to the point where there's a gun to my head or a guilletine above it and I'm asked to renounce Jesus, kill me. I will be praising Jesus.

 

[watchman F]

I'm not denying there are people out there who believe they are Christians but who are not. When the rapture occurs and the church is no longer here, these people's faiths will be confirmed because they were told the rapture was coming and missed it.

The doctrine of the pretrib rapture is a lie created by satan to lull the church to sleep

Sorry for taking us off of subject, but in answer to your question my faith will not be shaken. I stand firm in Christ because eternity is forever, and our time here on earth is a vapor.

Good answer. However scripture tells us many will fall away becaue of their false belief in a pretrib rapture.

Whether we're in the Great Tribulation right now, I don't think so, but I know it is coming. I'm a full believer in exegesis teaching, and that if we dig deep enough all scripture will line up with one train of thought, not three, but so far there are three different ways certain scriptures have be interpretted, so I call myself a "progrssive trib rapture believer." So let's say since "no one knows the day or time" of the Lord's return, and we are captured into heaven with Jesus, praise the Lord. If we are here long enough to see all currencies combined into one, and one man rises to power uniting most countries into one, if we are captured to not endure the next 3 and a half years, praise the Lord. However, if it got to the point where there's a gun to my head or a guilletine above it and I'm asked to renounce Jesus, kill me. I will be praising Jesus.

It is good to hear you are willing to die for Jesus because the sad fact is while the lukewarm will fall away, most true beevers will be martyred

 

[Jus10]

The doctrine of the pretrib rapture is a lie created by stan to lull the chuch to sleep

Stan? Well let's go beat him up! Lol

 

[freeway]

The double would make more sense than a "u-turn." The Bible speaks in several scriptures that we will be "snatched up" (by Greek definition) in the air. Pre Trib teaches that Christ and His church will be together in Heaven during the Great Tribulation. His actual "second return" He will come with the saints (the church) to judge.
Post Trib teaches that we will be caught up in heaven, then turned back around to earth. What is the sense in meeting Him in the sky if He's returning to earth? Why not just return to earth for believers and non-believers to see?



Let me get this straight, all of Paul's and Peter's teachings along with the teachings of the gospel that says Jesus died, rose again, conquering death and sparing us from wrath is all void from this one verse?

We are holy through Christ. We have that status through the cross. Though we have flesh and still stumble, in God's eyes we are perfect THROUGH the shed blood of Christ. His blood covers our sin, past, present, and future. God's wrath is spared from those who believe, why would we suffer and endure like those who do not believe during the Great Tribulation? I'm not saying we don't go through tribulations, but the Great Tribulation is meant for those who are not covered in Christ. By believing that our bodies are flesh and tied into the devil, then why did Jesus come in the first place if His work on the cross wasn't to purify us?

By the way you decypher this verse it completely takes focus off Christ's work on the cross. His final word on the cross is tetelesai, translated in the Bible as "it is finished." But that word can also be found on bills in the time of Jesus. Once a bill was 100% paid, tetelestai was written on it that says "you don't owe anymore, transaction complete." Why would Jesus say tetelestai as His last breath on the cross.

"Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe
Sin had left a crimson stain He washed it white as snow."

Through the cross we have the status of being holy and sanctified. This is the whole point of our faith. So if you truely believe our flesh has anything to do with a Post Tribulation, well I'll pray for you. Because according to Jesus word's and acts, I am saved from God's wrath and when God the Father sees me, He sees Jesus instead.

A post Trib rapture, or "catching in the air," voids Jesus work on the cross if you're going to take that verse and apply it the way you did.

Jus10 you sir, are 100% right. We are refined by Christ at the Cross, and do not need to be "re-fined again" through a tribulation, Are we not covered by the blood of Christ and his work at the Cross? God said it, that settles it for me.. To say a post trib rapture is saying in fact that certain things have to happen before Jesus comes, which in turns tell me "if I'm not a believer that I have time to still do the things I want at less 7 yrs to party before Jesus comes. But Jesus said to be alert for he will come as a thief in the night... The second coming at the end of the trib. is not a theft in the night...1260 days form the time when the Antichrist breaks his treaty with Israel... many more things like this that just don't line up with a post trib rapture....many

 

[freeway]

The Tribultion is God's last attempt to save as many as possible by the least severe means. You might say...'the Tribulation is pretty severe'', and you would be right, but it gets progressively worse. God wants all to be saved, and the fact is the Church fluroushes in Tribulation. Right now the Church itself is lukewarm, and dead, and it is producing disciples after its own kind. However during the Tribulation most will fallaway, and the remnant of true, faithful, standing firm believers will starts producing disciple after their own kind. So there will be a great harvest during the worse time of all man's history. This is God's plan. Although there is no pretrib rapture the church as we know it now wll disapear, but the good thin is, a new and improved church will rise from the ashes of the falling away. A Church that will not, that cannot be moved. God will shake everything that can be shaken. Is your faith going to be shaken if you find yourself in the midst of Great Tribulation?

soapbox teaching.. This is so far off center that I don't know where to start.. You evidently know nothing of what Jesus was talking about in Matt 24 thru the first of Matt chapter 25.. sad

 

[freeway]

I see a second thread started by watchman F.. so I'll jump over there...:waving

 

[watchman F]

Jus10 you sir, are 100% right. We are refined by Christ at the Cross, and do not need to be "re-fined again" through a tribulation, Are we not covered by the blood of Christ and his work at the Cross? God said it, that settles it for me.. To say a post trib rapture is saying in fact that certain things have to happen before Jesus comes, which in turns tell me "if I'm not a believer that I have time to still do the things I want at less 7 yrs to party before Jesus comes. But Jesus said to be alert for he will come as a thief in the night... The second coming at the end of the trib. is not a theft in the night...1260 days form the time when the Antichrist breaks his treaty with Israel... many more things like this that just don't line up with a post trib rapture....many

The problem with your ''theory'' is when Jes said He was coming as a thrief in the night He was referring to the 2nd coming and speaking about unbelievers. We are to watch, watch for the sigs that will indicate His soon return. There are things that indeed mnuch happen before Christ comes. such as the falling away of the church from the truth, and the revelation of the antichrist. ''2nd Thess 2:1-3