The Trinity

[Randy]

So, he was just simply a spirit?

God is Spirit, angels are spirits, so yes He was spirit.

Your question makes no sense. It is simply the Son who was incarnate in Mary's womb. Did the Son have different parts prior to the incarnation?

You continue to evade with nonsense. On the way back that's all that He committed to the Father hands. Into your hands I commit My "spirit". Are you suggesting some of Him got left on earth? What part?
What part of Him descended from above and was in that human body if NOT His own spirit?

That would essentially be correct.


This is saying nothing different, when the full context of the biblical revelation is taken into account.


I've put the two logical problems with this to you many times and you have yet to provide a response. (Don't worry, no anti-Trinitarian has bothered with an actual response that deals with the contradictions, so you're not the only one.)

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)

First, if you want the verse to say that "one God, the Father" precludes Jesus from being God, then it necessarily follows that "one Lord, Jesus Christ" precludes the Father from being Lord. Yet that would contradict what Paul writes in many passages, such as 1 Tim. 6:15. It would also contradict numerous other passages in the NT, such as Luke 10:21.

A clear distinction was made that's not captured by orthodox trinity statements.
How would Paul need to write it to satisfy you? Perhaps He should have called the Father the only true God as Jesus did.
Its One God the Father "FROM" whom all things come. As in GOD created by/through His Son.

Second, if "of whom are all things" speaks of the Father's absolute existence and his nature as God, then it necessarily follows that "by whom are all things" speaks of the Son's absolute existence and nature as God. We cannot say that in relation to the Father "all things" means absolutely everything that has come into existence but that it means something different in relation to the Son. And John 1:1-3, Col 1:16-17, and Heb 1:2, 10-12 confirm that absolutely everything that has come into existence came into existence by or through the Son. The only logical conclusion is that the Son can never have come into existence, meaning he must have necessarily always existed.

Your reasoning doesn't hold.
God spoke to us by His Son. That is the Father/Deity living in the Son doing His work.
God created by His Son. That is His Deity in the Son doing His work.

So, simple, sound logic leads to the only conclusion that Jesus, or rather the Son, is also God in nature, being of the same substance as the Father. Yet, he clearly is distinct from the Father and is not a separate God, as both are mentioned as being involved in creation, albeit in different roles.

All the fullness of the Deity lives in the Son. Yes the distinction was made as Jesus testified it was the Father in Him doing HIs work and they are ONE.

It is also worth noting that this is likely Paul's expansion of the Shema.

Not just God but God, our Father. Jesus is not our Father. He is our Lord.
Jesus Himself refers to the Father as the only true God and His God.

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)

First, we should note that Paul dismisses the idea of any other actual god or lord, supporting the monotheism he had just stated in verse 4. This does away with your argument that Jesus is God but not the true God.

Second, notice that at the end of verse 4, Paul says "there is no God but one." That is, at least in part, from Deut 6:4:

Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (ESV)

Third, now look at what Paul writes in verse 6: "there is one God, the Father . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ." Note that verse 6 is a continuing argument from verse 4. Putting the argument together then, without the aside in verse 5, we see: "we know . . . that there is no God but one yet for us there is one God, the Father . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ." This strongly suggests that Paul was expanding on the Shema, as some theologians, such as N.T. Wright, claim. Was that not the whole point of the Shema, to tell the Israelites that Yahweh was the only true God among the many gods of the pagan nations around them?


I have no idea what you're asking here.


Why do you continue to ignore what John 1:3, 1 Cor. 8:6, and Col. 1:16-17 state? They also say that all things came through the Son, correct? You're doing what the JWs' Watchtower has done with the NWT in Col. 1:16-17 by inserting "other," so that the Son created "all other things." They at least recognized the issue with the text as far as their (unbiblical) beliefs were concerned, although, for unknown reasons, they did it inconsistently by not also falsely inserting "other" into John 1:3 and 1 Cor. 8:6.


Are you saying the Father dwelt in the Son prior to the incarnation?

Yes

 

[JLB]

Only in the context that Jesus and His Father are one in Deity. The Deity is the one true God, the First and Last.
The Deity dwells IN Christ. The Father is Deity.

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Jesus is the very image of the invisible God.

Your perception of who Jesus Christ is, is based on the denial of the scriptures.

 

[Randy]

Your perception of who Jesus Christ is, is based on the denial of the scriptures.

My perception is clear. He is Gods Son, as in a child of the Father who has the Fathers nature in Him.

You and others are not defending Him nor the gospel message. You are defending the doctrine of the trinity.

 

[JLB]

My perception is clear. He is Gods Son, as in a child of the Father who has the Fathers nature in Him.

Do you believe the Son that God beget is God?

Man begets man.
Animal begets animal after its own kind.

God begets God.