The True Redemption

[SpiritualSon]

For centuries the church has been teaching a misunderstanding of the redemption:

Redemption itself was a subjugation of the hells, a restoration of order in the heavens, and by means of these a preparation for a new spiritual church. Jesus didn't die for our sins, He bored them from the cross. True redemption was a subjugation of the hells, a restoration of order in the heavens, and the establishment of a New Church, because without these no one could have been saved. Moreover, they follow in order; for the hells must be subjugated before a new angelic heaven can be formed; and this must be formed before a new church can be established on earth; because men in the world are so closely connected with angels of heaven and spirits of hell as on both sides to be one with them in the interiors of their minds.

Redemption and the passion on the cross must be thought of as two distinct events; otherwise men's minds will ground like a ship on sandbanks or rocks and sink, steersman, captain, crew and all, that is to say, it will go astray in all matters which concern salvation from the Lord. Without a clear view of these two distinct events a person is like one who sees imaginary things in a dream, and draws inferences from things he takes to be real, but are in fact absurd. Or he is like someone walking at night-time, and when he grasps the branches of a tree, thinks it is someone's hair, so he comes closer and gets his own hair entangled. But although redemption and the passion on the cross are two distinct events, still they are combined in effecting salvation, since the Lord by His union with the the Divine in Himself called the Father, the result of His suffering on the cross, became the Redeemer for ever.

Harry :fadein:

 

[SpiritualSon]

The priest and the prophet not sent by God, go astray through strong drink. They stumble in judgment, all the tables are covered with vomit brought up. Isaiah 28:7-8.

Harry :fadein:

 

[Free]

Speaking of strong drink...what are you saying in your first post?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Speaking of strong drink...what are you saying in your first post?

:

 

[SpiritualSon]

Speaking of strong drink...what are you saying in your first post?

:

That the passion of the cross was not redemption, as taught in the church. The passion of the cross was to unit His Human or body with the Divine in Himself called the Father. The Divine and Human is the same as the Soul and Body of Jesus Christ. That's why He was able to raise Himself up from death on the third day, both in Soul and Body.

Redemption was the Lord to do battle against hell, and put everything in order, even heaven was was put in order by the Lord. The angels were redeemed by the Lord, as well as men on earth.

Churches that believed the Lord died for their sins, and took them away, believe the Lord pays no attention to man's behaviour, and that man doesn't need to to anything but believe. These churches believe the Lord hands heaven down to all believes on a silver platter, without any doing on their part. To them good works is nothing.

Harry :fadein:

 

[Free]

That the passion of the cross was not redemption, as taught in the church.

1 Timothy 2:6 "who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

Ransom here is antilutron in Greek and means "what is given in exchange for another as the price of his redemption".

The passion of the cross was to unit His Human or body with the Divine in Himself called the Father

This is very close to the heresy of adoptionism and just plain wrong. There was an event referred to in John 1 called the Incarnation which is God coming to earth in human flesh. That was when any uniting took place.

Redemption was the Lord to do battle against hell, and put everything in order, even heaven was was put in order by the Lord.

Redemption carries with it the idea of liberation, freeing, and deliverance, not battle or putting in order (whatever you mean by that).

The angels were redeemed by the Lord

Which angles were redeemed?

 

[SpiritualSon]

That the passion of the cross was not redemption, as taught in the church.

1 Timothy 2:6 "who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

Ransom here is antilutron in Greek and means "what is given in exchange for another as the price of his redemption".

That is not what Paul meant

The passion of the cross was to unit His Human or body with the Divine in Himself called the Father

This is very close to the heresy of adoptionism and just plain wrong. There was an event referred to in John 1 called the Incarnation which is God coming to earth in human flesh. That was when any uniting took place.

Redemption was the Lord to do battle against hell, and put everything in order, even heaven was was put in order by the Lord.

Redemption carries with it the idea of liberation, freeing, and deliverance, not battle or putting in order (whatever you mean by that).

The angels were redeemed by the Lord

Which angles were redeemed?

The idea of God and redemption has reduced the whole of theology from the spiritual to the lowest natural level, by attributing to God purely natural properties. Yet everything in the church depends upon the idea of God, and the idea of redemption, which makes one with salvation. For that idea is like the head which controls all actions in the body. So long as it is spiritual, everything in the church becomes spiritual too, and as long as it is natural, everything in the church becomes natural too.

Therefore, since the ideas of God and redemption have become purely natural, that is, under the influence of the bodily senses, everything too is purely natural which the heads and members of the church have made traditional in their statements of dogma.

The reason why this can produce nothing but falsity is that the natural man is continually acting in opposition to the spiritual, and so looks upon spiritual truths as ghosts and illusions in the air.

So it can be said that that sensual idea of redemption, and thus of God, has rendered the roads to heaven, leading to the Lord God the Saviour, beset by thieves and robbers John 10:1:8- 9; and that the doors of the temples have been thrown down, allowing dragons, owls, tziim and iyim* to come in and howl in discordant chorus.

It is well known that this idea about redemption and God has been foisted into present-day faith. This prescribes that one should pray to God the Father to forgive sins on account of the crucifixion and the shedding of His Son's blood, and to God the Son to pray and intercede for one, and to God the Holy Spirit to make one righteous and sanctified. What else is this but praying to three Gods, one after the other? How then can one think of the rule of God except in terms of aristocratic or hierarchical rule, or as it were a triumvirate such as there once was at Rome, only that instead of a triumvirate it should be called a triumpersonate?

What then is easier for the devil than, as the saying goes, to divide and rule - that is to destroy unanimity and stir up rebellious movements, at one time against one God, at others against another, as has actually happened from the time of Arius down to the present? And thus to dethrone the Lord God the Saviour, who has all power in heaven and on earth Matthew 28:18, and enthrone instead one of one's own supporters and give him worship, or, because it is taken away from him, to take away worship from the Lord Himself.

Harry :fadein: